Dwarves are Life's page

I did not think of the reincarnate to be completely honest, but that is a good tactic. More so I want him to survive to lvl 20 to discover immortality and thus live forever! or at least until he is skewered on some orc's sword or something. I want to do this for four reasons: 1)just to play a wizard in general since I haven't yet. 2)To make a character get to lvl 20 and live forever (bonus points if this guy can do it because he is my favorite character). 3)Because a close friend of mine dislikes this character. Mostly because it's my character so not that he is actually upset about the game, but because his character is an elf and will live for a very long time now he can sleep at night knowing the story goes on with his and my character together. 4)Because I want to see him in later campaigns with my friends. That would be cool.

Back to the actual post. So I want to make him venerable with the whole +3 to mental abilities and -6 to physical. PizzaLord, do you know what your ability scores were when you started? To anyone reading, how can I get past this penalty with a 15pt buy? I may have to back off venerable to the old age instead, but i'm not 100% sure yet.

I am playing around with making a battlefield control/utility wizard out of a character I've played in a previous campaign. But that isn't important for this post. I have not played wizard before (or any spellcaster for that matter), and thus am not proficient in their class concepts. I've been reading things such as treatmonk's guides and such. The thing is to use my old character it would have to be an older version of him. I also know that intelligence is number 1 priority so I figured I'd make an attempt at building him venerable aged giving him +3 to WIS, INT, CHA, but the -6 to STR, DEX, CON seems like a huge hindrance. At least to me it does... I don't find much in the magical interwebs regarding building a venerable character, but (starting with) having a huge hit to AC and skill checks from low DEX and only getting a few hit points from a low con just seems like if I were to stub my toe I'd just die. I know I can make those stats better, but having the highest INT i can while doing that proves difficult.

Ability scores:

STR:10 DEX:10 CON:10 INT:10 WIS:10 CHA:10
STR:-6 DEX:-6 CON:-6 INT:+3 WIS:+3 CHA:+3 after venerable age modifier
STR: 4 DEX: 4 CON: 4 INT:13 WIS:13 CHA:13
STR:-- DEX:-- CON:+2 INT:-- WIS:+2 CHA:-2 after dwarf race modifier
^ He is a dwarf, no changing
STR: 4 DEX: 4 CON: 6 INT:13 WIS:15 CHA:11

Now these are the base stats before my own point buy-ins

That's the next problem. Our DM has only used a 15pt buy-in. This may make it near impossible to make a functioning wizard. right now his heavy encumbrance is 39lbs -_- (out of character I like to have loot, much loot, but for one campaign I think I can control it) and his DEX gives him a base AC of 7. He has a total of 4, count 'em! FOUR hit points...(Before a probably necessary toughness feat almost doubling his max health). Also a -3 to all STR and DEX skills (not too bad for a wizard i guess?).

Sooooo... unless I'm completely missing something I find it very difficult to make a character that won't die immediately for a very strenuous paper cut while running a high INT stat. I know Dwarf isn't the prime race, but that isn't too important. We play for RP and so long as my character isn't pathetically useless it can work. If anyone has insight for me please let me know. All comments and advice are valuable to me so thank you in advance.

I forgot there was an unchained ninja... It's been a long day sorry. Would the two be compatible as a regular ninja>nokizaru would be? I don't see why not, but I should make sure.

@Heretak

Our DM is also fairly new. one maybe two campaigns and ya he is using kid gloves for the first game, but he also just wants to have fun over anything else. I don't know just the way it is. He's not being easy on us. almost killed us twice within four sessions, but he works hard to balance it. Not really planning on playing with anyone else it's just kind of a side thing for us to do in our free time while everyone is off at college.

Yes, totally agree PCs are unpredictable, but unless someone else picks an evil character (which in our group is a low chance because everyone really just wants neutral so they have very few restrictions on what they can do and not have to worry about alignment.) they probably won't just try to kill a random pickpocket in the middle of the town streets. But i will have to discuss the whole idea with the DM before hand to see if we even want to deal with it.

I have been debating lawful evil, but regardless of either way I go I get almost the same results. That is, the character would end up following the party (they look like they have things she wants), over hears what they intend to do (campaign goal of high value to her), She wants the goal for herself, follows them around a while, tries to steal, gets caught, threatened, doesn't want to lose her chance at the goal, offers information and services she can give to make the goal much more reachable, DOES NOT continue stealing or harming the party because they are of more worth alive with their equipment because she cannot hope to get near the objective without them... Not a flawless plan by any means, but also not many safe ways for any evil characters to get a party and stay in one. I thought it was a pretty good shot at a safe story. Her alignment may shift through the campaign because the party paladin and cleric keep trying to convince her to be good, or maybe she is attracted to or becomes emotionally attached to another party member. Not a predictable variable.

Yeah, I completely understand your experience with the game gives better knowledge of what works and doesn't, but it's never 100% for sure. Obviously a dwarf wizard with dual wielded whips and an elven curved blade won't work, but this coooould, maybe. If she is shunned or dies. Next character. I've already got more character sheets and concepts filling in. Just a fun idea. Thanks much!

@BadBird

The unchained rogue is fantastic for DEX since having to level up to get the feats that would allow DEX atk and dmg rolls sounds like a very weak start when you have no points in STR.

What I think would work the best would be the nokizaru, but as an alternate to unchained rogue instead of ninja. (still losing sneak attack to gain bardic casting) sounds like it would be a stronger start to me, but I'm no pro so let me know what you think. Thanks much!

Could Layla utilize weapon cords to drop a weapon immediately to perform her hand signs and then either attack with the other hand or pick her weapon back up?.

I realize most of Layla's action will be spent concealed and spell casting. only going in to interrupt some magic channeling ability or to provide a well timed flank. If Layla were to go into two-hand weapon would it be plausible to for her to release one hand from the elven curved blade allowing the weapon to rest on her shoulder while her offhand performs the hand signs, or is that still too real life?

As for this class vs fighter in combat. Yeah she will be much more difficult. Like playing chess vs checkers, but I definitely enjoy chess much more. Honestly, in our current campaign (first for all of us except the dm) we should all be dead right about now. Our DM is mainly keeping us alive because we play smart instead of just charging into battle swords a swingin'. And we are all just in it to have fun anyways.

The concept is that Layla gets caught stealing from the party after overhearing their goals to retrieve something she wants for herself. Then she offers information and her necessary skills to help reach that goal. She can be Lawful Evil in that she won't actively harm the party for no real reason because they are of more worth to her goal but other people are just fair game (well mostly their valuables anyways), and maybe her alignment shifts throughout the campaign. I don't know. All in the story to us really.

I know in our group that we could make this work, and nobody is really prone to getting upset over the game, but everyone enjoys the unexpected situations we get thrust into. I just enjoy the character creation portion a lot also, and I want to learn how to make this character a better fit to the rules so i can look back from future characters to kind of keep that flow. This is making me think twice about everything while trying to fit the square peg into the round hole and it is quite helpful. Thank you for all this advice.

Just read through your post Heretak. Thank you in advance!

As for sneak attacks being replaced you are very much correct. Not sure how i glossed over that one sentence so many times, but i guess that happened. No sneak attack. I Will have to think about that.

as for using 3pp the only reason i am even considering it is for 2 reasons A. the game has many undefined situations as it stands and very much is left to the DM's discretion and B. I enjoy writing, a lot, so if I'm at work or just somewhere i don't care to be and I think of a character for a book (or for pathfinder) I immediately begin finding her edges and slowly form it into a model character. Then when I get home with this idea of Layla I open word (or for this a spreadsheet and the wiki) and go to town putting them together. A little tough being new to the whole D&D style, but I have only been in about 4 sessions of my first campaign and i already have 3 more characters I'm trying to put together. Layla may not be my second character i play. or my third. but she is my favorite so far!

Specializing. Layla is already a caster-TWF I don't intend on going two-handed anymore just because hiding the bulky weapon will be difficult. She is specialized in all light weapons so I figure I can stick with the two for a while, but as for casting I wonder if i should get a wand, staff, or maybe one of the rods i keep reading about that quicken or silent spellcast. Magic all around I'm still pretty rough about.

Being bored will not be a problem I'd gander. The DM already stated my current character is the most interesting he's had and we all laugh pretty constantly when we play. I still have fun even though he just stands his guard, protects the ranger and just swings his warhammer repeatedly at whomever gets too close. Oh and he left a love note to the barmaid he hadn't even talked to but he did wink at her!

More seriously I mostly intend her to use illusions and conjuration to confuse, blind, and debuff enemies. She will become invisible and flank around occasionally making noise or throwing a knife at someones head to make them turn away from and expose themselves to the other characters. She'll kill the back line when possible.

Yes 15pt buy. It's rough. would you please give me your best advise on how to attribute Layla with a 15 and 20pt buy. For CHA casting is that the "use magic devise" skill? because I would have thought it to be the "spell craft" skill. still reading everything i can about magic. It's pretty slow.

My DM is more on the strict side when it comes to creating the character. You get the skill ranks and attributes allotted to your class. roll for gold. but in game he is very much towards the lax side. I had fallen unconsciousness after a fight when our ranger rolled snake eyes on his attacks hitting me in the back for 13/20 of my health. But after more enemies had come he woke me up when the ranger had been knocked to 0 hp so i could attempt to save him. Should have left him to die...

CE- mostly for RP she enjoys tormenting her enemies. Very much so. She steals from pretty much everyone. Doesn't enjoy killing unless it's their family and they have to watch and then she can leave them alive afterwards. Pretty awful person. I'm going to chat with the DM about a campaign where the goal is to get something from someone very valuable or powerful. Something she could not get on her own. or at least without some meat to throw at the wall in a distraction. She will come upon the party. Will not join, but follows so she can have a shot at the prize. Continues to steal from the party members and private message the DM for them to roll a Perception check. Only when they beat her will she be caught in the act. Then probably threatened with her life until she reveals her knowledge of their goal and offers to go with them and help in exchange for not killing her. It will be more complex but that's the jist. Let me know what you think.

EDIT: obviously she will only be chosen for a campaign that the DM defines a goal that her greed can force her to join their group else she has no chance of attaining the goal.

EDIT II: Yes exactly what I was thinking Illusion and Conjuration into Abjucation could if done correctly keep her from being targeted for an attack very well. As for the CHA problem I first thought that all spell-related things scaled off INT so i can change it, but i'd like your opinions on the attribute distribution if you don't mind. for both 15pt and 20pt buy-ins.

EDIT 9999: On top of everything. Combat is fun and all, but I find we laugh or cry much more often in between the fights interacting with eachother or NPCs. So she won't be the greatest thing ever in combat, but she will be useful, and story, story, story is most important.

This archetype definitely seems to be more well defined as to what she would get when she reaches the next level. One of my problems with nokizaru is that the class page does not well define what it receives upon level up, and I am forced to assume it is the same as the ninja class progression but with the extra spell castings of a bard or something? still my weakest point is how magic works... only ever played a big tanky dwarf fighter.

I will definitely look into the eldritch scoundrel, thank you Turin.

Fixed Links:

Up-to-Date First character for reference to what I know of the game so far

Up-to-Date Layla Spreadsheet

Nokizaru class page. Alternate class of an alternate class.

Hopefully these work and everyone could have a chance at helping me out. If they don't work then I can't internet. I quit. Thank you much!

Alright, This is going to be a biggy. If you can read everything and help out thank you much. I'm rather new (as in 3rd session of 1st campaign) to the entirety of D&D style games, but I find I'm enjoying almost every aspect of the current pathfinder campaign I'm in. Being new I don't know a whole lot and I don't mind walls of text so details, details, details-please. (I will link my current character to show what I have done, and will link my idea of a second character that this post is targeting)

Rough Backstory: (skip to next part for stats and numbers)
So Layla is a female Elf who only wants to see others suffer as much as she has. Brought up by a family of nobility into her teens she learned all that goes with the titles, but soon left it all by the curb as she watched her family slowly broken down by other families until finally a guild of thieves and mercenaries stormed the home and killed everyone. She watched her father die. The same man that taught her kindness whispered to her to run, survive, and destroy those that abuse their power and take what they will. Running, she is captured at the city gates. Unable to allow her freedom after the crimes she had witnessed the murderers tied a rope and hung her from a tree, and leaving her to die she was able to slip a blade out and slice the rope leaving her neck permanently marked and unable to speak louder than a whisper. Believed dead for now she is free to roam and rebuild herself. She takes from nobility and basically anyone that has any semblance of wealth and power only ever tolerating others that have been shunned, are powerless and penniless, and have seen horrors such as her own. She is Chaotic Evil. No religion decided yet anyone fit her to you?

Up-to-Date Layla Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1g-dD24EO57D52dizTRMaSZ0lhKTLujDI1sl aMJUc4_c/edit?usp=sharing

Up-to-Date First character for reference to what I know of the game: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18T8DNnSzOau3v-vtSgT7yqyBjn8SL2yoIBL LksQ3EpQ/edit?usp=sharing

Layla is a ninja/wizard class called a nokizaru (an alternate to an alternate: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/alternate-classes/ninja/ninja-alternate-cla sses/nokizaru) I wanted a rogue that didn't simply stealth up behind people, stab them in the back or open their treasure chests, take what she finds and run. No. Layla wants more than that. Layla is going to torment her targets with illusory and conjuration spells. Traumatize them, make them run and cry until they suck their thumbs in the fetal position behind their bed. Then she takes their treasures from the chests and runs.

Nokizaru is an alternate class that isn't completely based in pathfinder, but I trust you the most as I will be building her in pathfinder. Nokizaru are ninjas retaining sneak attacks, but cannot augment them with rogue traits and also cannot learn spells outside of illusion, conjuration and an option of divination/necromancy/abjucation (to keep her from attaining 100% of the strongest benefits from ninja and wizard classes while staying as one class herself: nokizaru). I believe they can choose rogue traits, but all the traits the specifically augment sneak attacks are replaced with a few new ones on the nokizaru class page.

What I have on the spreadsheet so far I can live with for the most part. I've not dabbled in spells yet so those I find I need help with things like spellcraft, caster level, and which ones to choose. Also the Average rogue/ninja only starts with 140gp so the inventory page may be a little (or way) overboard, and some tuning to what to buy and not to will be in order.

She will fight mostly in melee attacks with either a sai and kama OR Elven curved blade. This is because of the cost to TWF and to two-handed weapon feats seems to me (I could be wrong) that it would be way too expensive. That on top of having a point or two into throwing kunai or some throwable (advice?) AND then also into the spell feats seems like a lot. It may not be a good class at all I'm not sure I really just like the character and want to play as her to be completely honest. My DM isn't too strict, but I probably can't just start with an extra 200gp either.

As for her inventory most of her items hide things as she is afraid of having them taken from her. Her clothing has hidden compartments, her wrists have spring assisted compartments, her bandoliers and scarf have compartments, and other things like these I would add just to make her full blown in that regard. she has a disguise kit and a thieves' toolset. unfortunately both are expensive and currently are causing most of my money problems which will most likely force me to go TWF (kama and sai) and just dropp the elven curved blade.

Most her important skill ranks scale in DEX and INT (mainly spellcraft), so most my base ability points went to those. Also enough to keep CON at 10 with the inherent elf race -2, and the extra point put into CHA to boost the skills the class is already proficient in. Keep in mind my DM used a 15 point buy-in for abilities this campaign, and probably will in the next one.

AC is 14 so far although she doesn't plan on being hit with her spells impairing her enemies' abilities to even find her. ignore everything under feats and features and in tactics and mechanics as none of it has been chosen yet. I haven't quite figured out how to choose my starting racial/class traits, and I am not sure how to build her feats either. If anyone can shed light on that problem please do.

Side notes: I've probably forgotten many important things so let me know what you think, your ideas, I love to read everyone's concepts and thought processes. I'd like to point out she has snake and bird tattoos on her arms, and I plan on her having a trained pet of each. also probably going to be expensive, but the RP and accuracy to her backstory are most important to me. If i have to sacrifice items or spells to get on point I don't mind. It's all for the enjoyment. If you have any questions I will answer them as best as possible. It is very possible I have done this all wrong and have completely broken the character so do let me know what you think! If you've rolled a 20 on your Willpower saving throw and read all the way until here I've given you a hypothetical high-five and thank you!