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Bardess wrote:


Extraordinary Wild Shape: At 9th level, the shapemaster gains special advantages in each of her allowed forms as detailed in Beast Shape IV.

If I understand correctly the ability, is that you can gain all the abilities named it the "spell" you are using and Extraordinary Wild Shape offers you a larger range of abilites (those of Beast Shape IV). So if you were transforming into a Magical Beast, then you would gain nothing from this ability. Well it may be okay, but it is sad to improve only certain form (those that does not use Beast Shape IV). Well.. Maybe otherwise would be overkill (as adding abilities from all spells or from more than one).

- Swift Wild Shape: I would suggest Move, Swift, Free, Immediate as the sequence to a maximum of once per round. This would cut the abuse.

- Natural Spell: This would not necessary be the case. In one of my games, I play a Synthesist (Summoner archetype from UM) and I don't rely that much on spellcasting and summon monster ability. Though those abilities are pretty usefull when my eidolon gets killed or unsummoned.


Bardess wrote:

Um, let's see:

-The humanoid shape is gained: the Shapemaster levels stack with druid levels to the purposes of gaining A Thousand Faces, so Druid 5/Shapemaster 8 and you can go humanoid... maybe you were suggesting to give it before?
-Aspect of the Beast would maybe be better as a bonus feat?
-As for Natural Spell, remember that Wild Speech allows to cast verbal-only spells while in wildshape. With Natural Spells the range of castable spells while in wildshape's much widened. I gave 7/10 spell levels because the class is a little weak without the animal companion/domain, and needs strenghtening. But Natural Spell at low level AND a spell progression even of 5/10 is a bit too much for me.
Also, I think that no prestige class gives a 5/10 progression, does it? It's a full progression, a 7/10 one, or no spell progression at all.
-Extraordinary Wild Shape: Others had this same point. Maybe a little down-powering is in order.

See if this is better:

** spoiler omitted **...

I was more thorough in my comparisons with generic PrC and you were right about spell levels. 7 is the value mostly used. :).

- For the humanoid shape, I was meaning getting it sooner. What you proposed seems perfect!
- True about Natural Spell, it was not included in the 3.5 version since it was not build as a "spellcasting" class. Though, it may be better to leave to character to select it if he/she wants to focus on spellcasting.
- About Extraordinay ability, it seems more balanced than giving all Ex abilities. Except for creatures that uses already the Beast Form IV, it does not give anything. Would it be too strong to give acces to the abilities of all spells combined? Or maybe to add one ability that the copied creature did not have?
- I just read the "Statue" spell (since I did not how it worked) and it gives the possibility to alternate between rock and living condition at will.
- Swift Wild Shape: Shouldn't Immediate action be better than free action? Immediate action would give the possibility to transform in reaction of an attack, free is only in your turn.

BTW I just realized the "basic" dragon at level 7 with Beast Form IV. Love it!

P.S.: I'm sorry if may seem rude. English is not my main language and I may just be missing the appropriate way to say it.


Bardess wrote:

I tried to convert the prestige class in an archetype here, but the result wasn't too appealing to me. I'll try again 'cause, at a second look, it seems not to need so many changes.

So...

** spoiler omitted **...

I've looked at your Shapemaster and I would have a few comments:

- The requirements are low, as you mentionned, the 3rd spell level would be more appropriate. Though, if a class would give wild shape with no casting it could be an issue...
- You seem to be missing the wild shape into humanoid.
- Extraordinary wild shape is not appropriate. The polymorph spell tells you already what is the range of abilities it is acceptable to use.
- I would reduce the spell casting level gained 7 out of 10 seems strong. Maybe 5-6 ?
- I would also give natural spell at low level.

Otherwise it looks great IMO.

P.S.: I would not add Aspect of the Beast as prereq.


AvalonXQ wrote:

If there are specific things that you never get but want, you can consider adding them specifically to your Shape Change ability at a certain level.

Actually, that's something you could do to set the MoMF apart -- rather than making your benefits list based on the specific polymorph spells, make a custom list that's based on your level of MoMF. You can still use the polymorph spells as a guide, but this can give the MoMF a flavor all its own as it can more quickly gain certain abilities and qualities as balance permits.

You might also consider giving the MoMF a couple of bonus feats selected from a list of monster feats -- weapon feats with natural weapons only, flyby attack, multi-attack, multi-weapon fighting, etc.

In fact, here's a neat little flavorful/unusual ability...

Eclectic Adaptation (Ex): Starting at 10th level, each time the master of many forms uses Shape Change, she gains the use of one feat for which she meets the prerequisites while in the selected form. The master of many forms is considered the race and type of the selected form for purposes of meeting the prerequisites of this feat. She retains the use of this feat as long as she retains the selected form and she meets the prerequisites. She is free to select a different feat each time she uses the Shape Change ability.

This ability would allow you to change into a hawk with Fly-By Attack, a tiger with Weapon Focus (claws), or a four-armed creature with Multi-Weapon Fighting without having to slot those feats for those abilities full-time. It also allows you to access racial feats or feats specific to certain types, which is something polymorph usually doesn't do.

Hi everyone,

This is making some time I'm going through the threads here on Paizo, but I finally decided to post!

MoMF is one of my favorite class and I really like the idea to make an archetype out of it. I used the base posted by Ragnero and added the propositions from AvalonXQ (hybrid, ecletic and fast shape). I tried my best to balance the class.

So here it is:

Shaper Archetype:

Class skills
The Shaper’s class skills are Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Fly (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Stealth(Dex) Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).
Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier.
Table: Shaper
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Monster Lore, orisons, Wild empathy, Wild Shape (1/day - Appearance),
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Natural Spell, Wild Shape (Animals [S/M])
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Natural Tongue, Wild Shape (2/day - Humanoid [S/M])
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 Diminished Nature Bond, Wild Shape (Animal [T/L] - Elemental [S])
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 Wild Shape(3/day - Monstrous Humanoid [S/M])
6th +4 +5 +2 +5 Fast Wild Shape (Move action), Hybrid Shape [1 other creature] Wild Shape (Animal [D/H] - Magical Beast [S/M] – Elemental [M]¬ - Plant [S/M])
7th +5 +5 +2 +5 Wild Shape(4/day - Monstrous Humanoid [T/L] – Vermin [S/M])
8th +6 +6 +2 +6 Wild Shape (Elemental [L] - Plant [L])
9th +6 +6 +3 +6 Venom Immunity, Wild Shape (5/day – Monstrous Humanoid [D/H] - Vermin [T/L])
10th +7 +7 +3 +7 Eclectic adaptation, Fast Wild Shape (Swift action), Wild Shape (Magical Beast [T/L] - Elemental [H] - Plant [H])
11th +8 +7 +3 +7 Wild Shape (6/day – Dragon [M] – Appearance [at will])
12th +9 +8 +4 +8 Hybrid Shape [2 other creatures]
13th +9 +8 +4 +8 Wild Shape (7/day – Dragon [L] – Giant [L])
14th +10 +9 +4 +9 Fast Wild Shape (Free action)
15th +11 +9 +5 +9 Timeless body, Wild Shape (8/day – Dragon [H] – Giant [H])
16th +12 +10 +5 +10
17th +12 +10 +5 +10 Wild Shape (9/day)
18th +13 +11 +6 +11 Fast Wild Shape (Immediate action), Hybrid Shape [3 other creatures]
19th +14 +11 +6 +11 Wild Shape (at will)
20th +15 +12 +6 +12 Extraordinary Wild Shape

Monster Lore (Ex): The Shaper adds her Wisdom modifier on Knowledge skill checks in addition to her Intelligence modifier, when making skill checks to identify the abilities and weaknesses of creatures.

Spells: A Shaper casts arcane spells drawn from the Druid spell list. A Shaper must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time. To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, the Shaper must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Shaper’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the Shaper’s Wisdom modifier.

A Shaper can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Shaper. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Wisdom score. If the daily allotment is 0, she may cast spells of that level only if her Wisdom allows bonus spells of that level.

A Shaper must spend 1 hour each day in a trance-like meditation on the mysteries of nature to regain her daily allotment of spells. A Shaper may prepare and cast any spell on the druid spell list, provided that she can cast spells of that level, but she must choose which spells to prepare during her daily meditation.

Orisons: A Shaper can prepare a number of orisons, or 0-level spells, each day, as noted on Table: Shaper under “Spells per Day.” These spells are cast like any other spell, but they are not expended when cast and may be used again.

Wild Shape (Su): At 1st level, a Shaper gains the ability subtly alter her humanoid form and return to normal once per day. Her options for this transformation include any humanoid race with which she is familiar. This ability functions like the Disguise Self spell (except it is a polymorph effect, not a glammer effect), except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per Shaper level, or until she changes back. Changing form is a standard action and doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity.

A druid can use this ability an additional time per day at 3rd level, and every two levels thereafter, for a total of 9 times at 17th level. At 19th level, a Shaper can use Wild Shape at will. As the Shaper gains levels, this ability allows for her to take on the form of larger, smaller, and more varied creatures. Each form expends one daily use of this ability, regardless of the form taken.

At 2nd level, a Shaper can also use Wild Shape to turn herself into any Small or Medium animal. Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type. A Shaper loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.) This ability functions as Beast Shape I.

At 3rd Level, a Shaper can also use Wild Shape to actually change into other humanoid creatures. When taking the form of a humanoid, the Shaper’s Wild Shape functions as Alter Self

At 4th level, a Shaper can also use Wild Shape to change into a Large or Tiny animal or a Small elemental. When taking the form of an animal, a Shaper’s Wild Shape now functions as beast shape II. When taking the form of an elemental, the Shaper’s Wild Shape functions as elemental body I.

At 5th level, a Shaper can also use Wild Shape to change into a Small or Medium monstrous humanoid. When taking the form of a monstrous humanoid, the Master of Many Form's Wild Shape functions as Monstrous Physique I

At 6th level, a Shaper can also use Wild Shape to change into a Huge or Diminutive animal, a Small or Medium Magical Beast, a Medium elemental, or a Small or Medium plant creature. When taking the form of animals, a Shaper’s Wild Shape now functions as beast shape III. When taking the form of an elemental, the Shaper’s Wild Shape now functions as elemental body II. When taking the form of a plant creature, the Shaper’s Wild Shape functions as plant shape I.

At 7th level, a Shaper can also use Wild Shape into a Tiny or Large monstrous humanoid, or a Small of Medium Vermin. When taking the form of monstrous humanoids, the Shaper’s Wild Shape now functions as monstrous physique II. When taking the form of Vermin, the Master of Many Form's Wild Shape functions as vermin shape I

At 8th level, a Shaper can also use Wild Shape to change into a Large elemental or a Large plant creature. When taking the form of an elemental, the the Shaper’s Wild Shape now functions as elemental body III. When taking the form of a plant, the Shaper’s Wild Shape now functions as plant shape II.

At 9th level, a Shaper can also use Wild Shape into a Dimunutive or Huge monstrous humanoid, or a Tiny or Large Vermin. When taking the form of monstrous humanoids, the Shaper’s Wild Shape now functions as monstrous physique III. When taking the form of Vermin, the Master of Many Form's Wild Shape functions as vermin shape II

At 10th level, a Shaper can also use Wild Shape to change into a Tiny or Large Magical Beast, a Huge elemental, or a Huge plant creature. When taking the form of Magical Beasts, the Shaper’s Wild Shape functions as beast shape IV. When taking the form of an elemental, the Shaper’s Wild Shape now functions as elemental body IV. When taking the form of a plant, the Shaper’s Wild Shape now functions as plant shape III.

At 11th level, a Shaper can also use Wild Shape to change into a Medium Dragon. When taking the form of a Dragon, the Master of Many Form's Wild Shape functions as Form of the Dragon I. When taking the form of a Monstrous Humanoid, the Master of Many Form's Wild Shape now functions as monstrous physique IV. In addition, a Shaper can now use her Appearance ability (1st level ability) at will.

At 13th level, a Shaper can also use Wild Shape to change into a Large dragon or a Large Giant. When taking the form of a dragon, the Master of Many Form's Wild Shape now functions as Form of the Dragon II. When taking the form of a Giant, the Master of Many Form's Wild Shape functions as giant form I.

At 15th level, a Shaper can also use Wild Shape to change into a Huge Dragon or a Huge Giant. When taking the form of a dragon, the Master of Many Form's Wild Shape now functions as Form of the Dragon III. When taking the form of a Giant, the Master of Many Form's Wild Shape now functions as giant form II.

The Shaper must be familiar (seen in a book, seen in person or heard about it) with a form before taking it. The Wild Shape ability works in general as the ability of the Druid with the same name. It also acts as the Druid’s Wild Shape for any feat or prestige class.

Wild Empathy (Ex): A Shaper can improve the attitude of an animal. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check made to improve the attitude of a person (see Chapter 4). The druid rolls 1d20 and adds her druid level and her Charisma modifier to determine the wild empathy check result. The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly. To use wild empathy, the druid and the animal must be within 30 feet of one another under normal conditions.
Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute but, as with influencing people, it might take more or less time.
A Shaper can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but she takes a –4 penalty on the check.

Natural Spell (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a Shaper may cast spells with Somatic & Verbal components in any shape she uses. She gains Natural Spell feat.

Natural Tongue (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a Shaper is feeling closer to race she is physically Wild Shaping in. She can now speak the main language of the race (if one) she Wild Shapes into.

Diminished Nature Bond (Ex): At 4th level, a Shaper forms a bond with nature. This bond can take one of two forms. The first is a close tie to the natural world, granting the druid one of the following domains: Air, Animal, Earth, Eagle, Fire, Frog, Monkey, Plant, Serpent, Water, or Wolf. When determining the powers granted by this domain, the Shaper effective cleric level is equal to her Shaper level - 3. A Shaper that selects this option also receives additional domain spell slots, just like a cleric of the same level. She must prepare the spell from her domain in this slot.
The second option is to form a close bond with an animal companion. This ability functions like the traditional druid animal companion ability except that the Shaper’s effective druid level is equal to his
Shaper’s level – 3.

[b]Fast Wild Shape (Ex): At 6th level, a Shaper can now use Wild Shape as a Move action. At 10th level, she can now use it as a Swift action. At 14th level, she use it as a Free action. At 18th level, she can use it as an Immediate action.

Hybrid Shape (Ex): At 6th level, a Shaper can assume some features of a second creature while using Wild Shape. She can select a second creature while using Wild Shape and gain the abilities of the creature listed in the appropriate polymorph spell (example: bird wings, ). At 12th and 18th level, a Shaper can a new creature to the hybridization (2 additional creatures at 12th level and 3 at 18th level).

Venom Immunity (Ex): At 9th level, a Shaper gains immunity to all poisons due to its constant physical anatomy alteration.

Eclectic Adaptation (Ex): Starting at 10th level, each time the Shaper uses Wild Shape, she gains the use of one feat for which she meets the prerequisites while in the selected main form. The Shaper is considered the race and type of the selected form for purposes of meeting the prerequisites of this feat. She retains the use of this feat as long as she retains the selected form and she meets the prerequisites. She is free to select a different feat each time she uses the Wild Shape ability.

Timeless Body (Ex): After attaining 15th level, a Shaper no longer takes ability score penalties for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any penalties she may have already incurred, however, remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and the druid still dies of old age when her time is up.

Extraordinary Wild Shape(Ex): At 20th level the Shaper is a master shapeshifter. She gains the Shapechanger subtype. Also her Change Shape ability becomes extraordinary and can no longer be dispelled by such effects like Dispel Magic, and Anti Magic Field.

What is your idea on it?
Thanks,