I am in a circumstance where I thought it prudent to consult the forums regarding the Rules as Written for Natural Attacks as I now have 2 DMs with different takes on the usage of natural weapons.
I have researched the the rules on my own and have my own viewpoint on the matter.
NOTE: I am not trying to be harsh or start a conflict, both DMs are good friends of mine. Additionally, there is always the possibility that I could be wrong, I just want to be sure. I also understand that the DM gets the final say. Nonetheless, we have a good number of characters in our campaigns with access to natural attacks, so I don't want myself or the others to have our damage potential - or potential choices for character builds - be limited because of a misunderstanding.
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Here are the main points that I am attempting to address based on the viewpoints of these DMs.
DM1:
Natural attacks are for creatures only, and should a PC get a natural attack, they must choose between the natural attack or their manufactured weapon in any given situation. His ruling comes from - in part - this forum post on another site: Pathfinder: 2 Talon Attack or 2 Attacks?
DM2:
Claws count as unarmed attacks.
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Anything else in regards to natural attacks in this post is for clarification and understanding to prevent future issues/debates.
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TLDR
Contrary to my DMs, I believe that the rules state that claws consider the PC as armed, and you can attack at full BAB for a manufactured weapon and still attack with all of your available* natural attacks - albeit all natural attacks in this manner are considered secondary and take a -5 penalty to attack rolls.
*claws that are holding objects or manufactured weapons do not qualify as available
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Rules as Written
Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and add the creature’s full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature’s base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type. You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks).
Some creatures treat one or more of their attacks differently, such as Dragons, which always receive 1-1/2 times their Strength bonus on damage rolls with their bite attack. These exceptions are noted in the creature’s description.
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.
Some creatures do not have natural attacks. These creatures can make unarmed strikes just like humans do. See Table: Natural Attacks by Size for typical damage values for natural attacks by creature size.
Format: bite +5 (1d6+1), 2 claws +5 (1d4+2), 4 tentacles +0 (1d4+1); Location: Melee and Ranged.
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Attacks made with natural weapons, such as claws and bites, are melee attacks that can be made against any creature within your reach (usually 5 feet). These attacks are made using your full attack bonus and deal an amount of damage that depends on their type (plus your Strength modifier, as normal). You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks). If you possess only one natural attack (such as a bite—two claw attacks do not qualify), you add 1–1/2 times your Strength bonus on damage rolls made with that attack.
Some natural attacks are denoted as secondary natural attacks, such as tails and wings. Attacks with secondary natural attacks are made using your base attack bonus minus 5. These attacks deal an amount of damage depending on their type, but you only add half your Strength modifier on damage rolls.
You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack. For example, you cannot make a claw attack and also use that hand to make attacks with a longsword. When you make additional attacks in this way, all of your natural attacks are treated as secondary natural attacks, using your base attack bonus minus 5 and adding only 1/2 of your Strength modifier on damage rolls. Feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiattack can reduce these penalties.
Multiple Attacks
A character who can make more than one attack per round must use the full-attack action (see Full-Round Actions) in order to get more than one attack.
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“Armed” Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character’s or creature’s unarmed attack counts as an armed attack. A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed (see natural attacks).
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You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you’re unarmed, you don’t normally threaten any squares and thus can’t make attacks of opportunity.
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Holding the Charge: If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.
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Most character classes are proficient with all simple weapons. Combat-oriented classes such as barbarians, cavaliers, and fighters are proficient with all simple and all martial weapons. Characters of other classes are proficient with an assortment of simple weapons and possibly some martial or even exotic weapons. All characters are proficient with unarmed strikes and any natural weapons they gain from their race. A character who uses a weapon with which he is not proficient takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls with that weapon.
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BAB
This is the animal companion’s base attack bonus. An animal companion’s base attack bonus is the same as that of a druid of a level equal to the animal’s HD. Animal companions do not gain additional attacks using their natural weapons for a high base attack bonus.
Multiattack
An animal companion gains Multiattack as a bonus feat if it has three or more natural attacks and does not already have that feat. If it does not have the requisite three or more natural attacks, the animal companion instead gains a second attack with its primary natural weapon, albeit at a –5 penalty.
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Melee The creature’s melee attacks are listed here, with its attack roll modifier listed after the attack’s name followed by the damage and crit modifiers in parentheses. See example for details.
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Personal understanding:
I believe that the rules state that claws consider the PC as armed, however I find it odd that it has to state that "a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed," under the unarmed section. Does this mean that natural attacks are technically unarmed, but for the sake of rules count as armed?
The reason this came up as an issue was the fact that I was looking at being able to perform combat maneuvers, and disarm states that "Attempting to disarm a foe while unarmed imposes a –4 penalty on the attack."
However, the consequences of having claws be considered as unarmed are significant:
-"If you’re unarmed, you don’t normally threaten any squares and thus can’t make attacks of opportunity."
-you also provoke attacks of opportunity if your standard action in a threatened square is an attack (unarmed) (reference: Table: Actions in Combat).
-if claws are are considered unarmed attacks, then what is preventing all natural attacks as counting as unarmed?
-You would have to burn a feat slot in order to grab improved unarmed strike so you are considered as armed.
It should be noted however that natural attacks states "Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks," and it appends "(attacks made without a weapon)." Once again, this seems odd since natural weapons or unarmed strikes qualify for the Versatile Weapon spell, and unarmed strike also can be choose as a weapon focus (I would hope that a natural weapon would also qualify for this feat).
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I believe you can attack with all natural attacks alongside your normal weapon attacks.
To start with this one, I will tackle some basic rules/terms for taking actions in combat.
Melee Attack - standard action (used for an attack of opportunity, and can be used with with a combat maneuver such as sunder or disarm)
Attack Action - Standard Action (can be a melee attack or combat maneuver such as trip)(can be coupled with a move action)
Full Attack - Full-Round Action ("If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough (see Base Attack Bonus in Classes), because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon, or for some special reason, you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. You do not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of time. You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones.")
Additionally
"Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack
After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the first attack turns out and assuming you have not already taken a move action this round. If you’ve already taken a 5-foot step, you can’t use your move action to move any distance, but you could still use a different kind of move action."
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Base Attack Bonus (BAB) states that "Each creature has a base attack bonus and it represents its skill in combat. As a character gains levels or Hit Dice, his base attack bonus improves. When a creature’s base attack bonus reaches +6, +11, or +16, he receives an additional attack in combat when he takes a full-attack action (which is one type of full-round action—see Combat)."
Natural attacks state, "You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks)," and "Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type."
Note: "Attacks with secondary natural attacks are made using your base attack bonus minus 5"
It is my understanding then, that at full BAB, a PC can use a manufactured weapon will all its BAB increments and still attack with all of his or her available* natural attacks - albeit all natural attacks in this manner are considered secondary and take a -5 penalty to attack rolls.
*claws that are holding objects or manufactured weapons do not qualify as available
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Pathfinder: 2 Talon Attack or 2 Attacks? claims that RAW states you as a PC only gets one of your two claw attacks in an attack action while a beast/monster gets both in a single attack action.
Does anyone know of a written rule that supports this or clearly refutes it?
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Examples:
BAB: 6/1
STR: 14
Dagger: 1d4 (one-handed)
Bite Attack: 1d4 (only natural weapon gets 1-1/2 STR mod)
Attack action:
+8 Dagger 1d4 + 2 STR
and
+3 Dagger 1d4 + 2 STR
or
+8 Bite Attack 1d4 + 3 STR
Full attack action:
+8 Dagger 1d4 + 2 STR
and
+3 Dagger 1d4 + 2 STR
and
+3 Bite Attack 1d4 + 3 STR
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BAB: 6/1
STR: 14
Dagger: 1d4 (one-handed)
2 Claws: 1d3 (hypothetical) (only natural weapon gets 1-1/2 STR mod)
Attack action:
+8 Dagger 1d4 + 2 STR
and
+3 Dagger 1d4 + 2 STR
or
+8 Claw 1: 1d3 + 2 STR
(claw 2 cannot attack since it holds the dagger)
Full attack action:
+8 Dagger 1d4 + 2 STR
and
+3 Dagger 1d4 + 2 STR
and
+3 Claw 1: 1d3 + 2 STR
(claw 2 cannot attack since it holds the dagger)
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BAB: 6/1
STR: 14
Dagger: 1d4 (one-handed)
Bite Attack: 1d4
2 Claws: 1d3 (hypothetical)
Attack action:
+8 Dagger 1d4 + 2 STR
and
+3 Dagger 1d4 + 2 STR
or
+8 Bite Attack 1d4 + 2 STR
or
+8 Claw 1: 1d3 + 2 STR
(claw 2 cannot attack since it holds the dagger)
Full attack action:
+8 Dagger 1d4 + 2 STR
and
+3 Dagger 1d4 + 2 STR
and
+3 Bite Attack 1d4 + 2 STR
and
+3 Claw 1: 1d3 + 2 STR
(claw 2 cannot attack since it holds the dagger)
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BAB: 6/1
STR: 14
Dagger: 1d4 (one-handed)
Bite Attack: 1d4
2 Claws: 1d3 (hypothetical)
Tail Slap: 1d4 (hypothetical)
Attack action:
+8 Dagger 1d4 + 2 STR
and
+3 Dagger 1d4 + 2 STR
or
+8 Bite Attack 1d4 + 2 STR
or
+8 Claw 1: 1d3 + 2 STR
(claw 2 cannot attack since it holds the dagger)
or
+3 Tail Slap: 1d4 + 2 STR
Full attack action:
+8 Dagger 1d4 + 2 STR
and
+3 Dagger 1d4 + 2 STR
and
+3 Bite Attack 1d4 + 2 STR
and
+3 Claw 1: 1d3 + 2 STR
(claw 2 cannot attack since it holds the dagger)
and
+3 Tail Slap: 1d4 + 2 STR
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BAB: 6/1
STR: 14
2 Claws: 1d3 (hypothetical)(only natural weapon gets 1-1/2 STR mod)
Attack action:
+8 Claw 1: 1d3 + 3 STR
and
+8 Claw 1: 1d3 + 3 STR
Full attack action:
+8 Claw 1: 1d3 + 3 STR
and
+8 Claw 1: 1d3 + 3 STR
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BAB: 6/1
STR: 14
Bite Attack: 1d4
2 Claws: 1d3 (hypothetical)
Attack action:
+8 Bite Attack 1d4 + 2 STR
or
+8 Claw 1: 1d3 + 2 STR
and
+8 Claw 1: 1d3 + 2 STR
Full attack action:
+8 Bite Attack 1d4 + 2 STR
and
+8 Claw 1: 1d3 + 2 STR
and
+8 Claw 1: 1d3 + 2 STR
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BAB: 6/1
STR: 14
Bite Attack: 1d4
Tail Slap: 1d4 (hypothetical)
Attack action:
+8 Bite Attack 1d4 + 2 STR
or
+3 Tail Slap: 1d4 + 2 STR
Full attack action:
+8 Bite Attack 1d4 + 2 STR
and
+3 Tail Slap: 1d4 + 2 STR
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BAB: 6/1
STR: 14
Bite Attack: 1d4
2 Claws: 1d3 (hypothetical)
Tail Slap: 1d4 (hypothetical)
Attack action:
+8 Bite Attack 1d4 + 2 STR
or
+8 Claw 1: 1d3 + 2 STR
and
+8 Claw 1: 1d3 + 2 STR
or
+3 Tail Slap: 1d4 + 2 STR
Full attack action:
+8 Bite Attack 1d4 + 2 STR
and
+8 Claw 1: 1d3 + 2 STR
and
+8 Claw 1: 1d3 + 2 STR
and
+3 Tail Slap: 1d4 + 2 STR