What I'm trying to do with this change to the eidolon evolution system is the following:
1) Allow all Eidolons to have access to all evolutions in the pool.
-Serpentine base form with 2 limbs(legs) and quadruped with a tail are statistically identical, yet the serpent may choose constrict and the quadruped may choose pounce.
2) Make it impossible to create an Eidolon that is logically impossible (No 10 tails, no 30 weapon-capable arms, no 100+ base speed).
3) Normalize acquired evolutions (reach affects all parts instead of a specific attack, poison applies to all stingers instead of just one, eidolon isn't a mess of different natural attacks, such as hooves, rakes, claws, gore, bite, with 2 tentacles)
4) Make all possible selections potentially viable in some way without making any one evolution a must-have.
For the summoner-specific spells, I just wanted to add some more flavor to the class-specific spells which had more offense instead of targeting the Eidolon only. Haven't thought through the numbers or spell levels.
I could really use some feedback on either the evolution system or the spells/feats.
With the Baleful Evolution spell, you could turn someone into a human centipede! They'd even get a whole lot of negative stats to movement and would gain no attacks, more accurately representing its condition.
Don't fret, Summoners under this version still have a license to create unspeakable abominations of limbs. It's just that those abominations won't have huge stats that barely make sense.
-Aspect and Greater Aspect are removed.
-Extra Evolution Feat removed.
Feats:
Extra Evolution I: Give Eidolon 1 extra Evolution point.
Extra Evolution II: Give Eidolon 2 extra Evolution points.
Evolution Master: Increases the point gain or loss of all Evolution spells by 1.
Baleful Evolution
Cast time: Touch Attack readied after minimum 1 round, maximum 5 rounds.
Duration: Permanent (Fort save: Negate, Will save: 1 round/caster level)
Summoner focuses the energies of manipulation into their next touch attack. For each round spent casting, the summoner may use up to 8 evolution points on the target they touch (Max: 40). Follows the same rules as Forced Evolution for distribution and effects of these points, however Baleful Evolution may also select the body evolution.
Casting any spells or attacking after this spell is readied without committing to touching a target causes this spell to backfire. If the Summoner does not touch a valid target in the next minute, the spell backfires.
Backfired: Target the Summoner. The DM may distribute the points and decide the duration in this case.
This spell can be removed through a miracle, limited wish, or wish. It can also be removed by being targeted by Banish. If Banish was used to remove this, target takes 1d6 per 2 evolution points the Baleful evolution added.
Forced Evolution
Cast time: 1 standard
Duration: 1 min/caster level
May use up to 4/6/8 evolution points on target. Evolutions can only be heads, tails, wings, arms, or legs. There are no numerical limitations to these selections, but their effects are cumulative and reduce what they would normally add. Any limbs added cannot be used for any purpose deemed beneficial to the recipient. These evolutions cannot reduce land speed below 5. Cannot reduce any attribute below 1 with Forced Evolution.
Evolutionary Shift
Cast time: 1 standard
Duration: 1 min/caster level
Allows one to temporarily alter specific evolutions on Eidolon to 2 of the following: arms, legs, head, tail, body.
Mass Evolution
Cast time: 1 standard
Duration: 1 min/caster level
Num targets: 1/2 caster levels
Choose 3 points' worth of evolutions. All targets gain that evolution. Must be arms, legs, head, tail, body, or wings, or attacks attached to them.
Removes 1/2/3 limbs that could normally be added through evolutions, even if these limbs were not added in such a way. Cannot make the target headless. Any attacks attached to these limbs are lost for the duration.
Evolution Surge
Cast time: 1 standard
Duration: 1 min/caster level
Grants 2/4/6 evolution points to Eidolon, which may be spent in any way. Limbs acquired from this do not grant additional natural attacks.
Speciation
Cast time: 1 standard
Duration: 1 round/caster level
Choose a living creature type (animal, aberration, etc.). Your eidolon is now designated as both that creature type and an Outsider for spell purposes, and gains any beneficial traits associated with that creature type.
(3) Head-Grows another head, giving Eidolon access to another attack if any are placed on the head. Each head boosts Eidolon Int,wis, or charisma by 2. Can boost any one attribute a maximum of 2 times.
Head (Pick one only):
(1) Bite-Gives Eidolon Bite attack.
(1) Horn-Gives Eidolon Gore attack. For 2 more points, gives Eidolon Powerful Charge feat, dealing 2x strength on charges that use the gore attack.
(1) Headbutt-Slam replacement.
(1) Tail-Gives Eidolon a tail, giving acrobatics racial boost of 2. For each additional point spent, tail grows in strength (damage dies tied to the tail is improved by one rank) and racial acrobatics boost is increased by 2. Maximum of 2 times to improve tail.
Tail (Pick one only):
(1) Sting-Places a stinger on tail.
(1) Tail Slap-Eidolon can now slap with tail.
(1) Prehensile-Tail can be used to dextrously move objects or use weapons. Reach with this limb is 5 feet per level in Tail.
(1) Flipper-Grants Eidolon Swim speed equal to base speed plus 20 per level in tail.
(2) Wings-Grows a pair of wings. If this is the first time Wings has been taken, Eidolon gains fly(normal) equal to movement speed and gains 1 dexterity. Taking this evolution again grows another pair of wings, increasing Fly speed by 20 in addition to granting 1 dexterity and improving fly by one step. This evolution can be taken up to three times.
Wings (Pick one only):
(1) Wing Buffet-Gives 2 wing buffet per pair of wings.
(2) Superior Flight-Lose all wings, gain perfect flight regardless of size.
(2) Body-Increases the bulk of the Eidolon in general. Increases Eidolon str or Con by 2 per rank. Can be taken a maximum of 3 times.
Body (Any of the below may be taken):
(2) Spines-Whenever the Eidolon is successfully struck by a melee attack, deal 1d4 damage per rank.
(1) Plating-Increases natural armor by 3 per rank.
(1) Magic resistance-Increases resistance to an element by 5 per rank. Can be taken multiple times.
(1) Immunity-Grants immunity to an element. Requires Magic Resistance to that element.
(3) Spell Resistance-Gives SR. Requires Plating.
General (Any can be chosen):
(1) Tentacle- Grows a tentacle. Tentacles cannot be used to cast spells or hold objects. They are secondary attacks, but they do not count toward the natural attack limit. This evolution can be taken multiple times.
(2) Grab-Can use Claws, Pincers, Bite, or Tail Slap to grab. Attacking with that allows a free grapple check.
(2) Constrict-Can only be taken if Eidolon has Grab(tail). On successful grapple check with Tail, deal Tail slap damage for free. If Eidolon does not have any limbs(leg), then reduces the penalty for attempting to grab using only the tail to 2, from 20. Eidolon is immobilized while grappling using only the tail in this case.
(2) Swallow Whole-If Grab(bite) was chosen, Swallow Whole allows Eidolon to swallow a grappled enemy, ending the grapple effect on itself and causing the opponent to automatically take bite damage until free. Eidolon cannot use Bite from a given head that is currently swallowing a creature.
(1) Energy Attacks-Deals 1d3 damage of given element on successful hit with a natural attack. Can be taken up to 2 more times to improve damage to 1d4/1d6.
(2) Rend- Deal claw damage + 1.5xStr as extra damage for every 2 claw hits on a target. Only once per round per target, requires claws.
(2) Trample- Saving cuts the base damage in half. Base: 1d6 + 2x strength, plus 1d6 for each pair of legs Eidolon has. Can only be used on opponents smaller than Eidolon. Requires at least 1 pair of legs.
(1) Pounce- Requires at least 2 pairs of legs. Eidolon may use a full attack after a charge attack, however all attacks made during this full attack deal half damage.
(2) Double Tail- Requires at least one point in Tail. Eidolon gains a second tail which mirrors the original, gaining a second attack if the tail has one. This second tail does not increase Acrobatics.
(2) Poison-Choose Bite or Sting. Deals 1d2 strength damage per round for 4 rounds on successful hit with that attack. Fort save. For 2 more points, increases poison die to 1d4 and choose which ability it poisons upon taking this evolution enhancement.
(2) Growth- Increases Eidolon size to next category. This can only be taken up to 3 times, each costing 2 more than the previous growth.
Medium: +4 Str/+2 Con/-1 Dex
Large: +8 Str/+4 Con/-2 Dex
Huge: +16 Str/+8 Con/-4 Dex
Size bonuses replace previous ones (These values do not stack).
(Varies) Empower attack: Increases the damage die of attacks used by head, wings, arms, or legs by 1 step. Cost is 1 per limb affected this way. Can only be taken once per limb.
(1) Reach-Pick a body part of the Eidolon (Wings, head, legs, arms, or tail). Reach with any attacks granted by that body part is increased by 5 feet.
Any evolutions I left out were either unchanged or I haven't thought of something for them yet. Except for the following, which I purposefully removed:
-Ability Increase (Body parts fulfill its role now)
-Damage Reduction
-Slam (replaced by Headbutt)
I was looking into the evolutions, and I noticed many fallacies which resulted in Eidolons receiving absurd numbers due to lacking limitations on certain evolutions (30 hands on bipedal and other silly things). I decided to write out my own version to see if I could put a hard cap on attacks (natural or otherwise) without necessarily setting a cap.
Note: Long post incoming.
Summoner changes are listed in the third post.
Stat changes:
-Eidolon no longer receives a Dexterity bonus from the Str/Dex bonus.
-Alter max attacks number to 2 at level 1, slowly progressing to 10 at level 20.
-Evolution Pool is changed to: 10 at level 1. Gain 1 per level with 1 bonus evolution point for every fifth level. (Same effective value as current Eidolons except gain 1 more at max level)
-Base Forms removed. Eidolon starts at size:Small with only a head. Summoner must give Eidolon at least one natural attack to be able to summon it.
Evolution changes: Instead of choosing an attack for each limb, I've decided to give it a more uniform/realistic system. Instead of dividing by amount of points required, I've divided based on the body part it's affecting, with other evolutions going into Utility/General.
I'll only list the ones I changed majorly.
Template-
(cost) name - Description
(2) Limbs- Cannot take this feat more than 5 times. Legs: Boost move by 5. Arms: Gives two arms with hands, which can be used to cast spells or hold weapons. Additionally, arms increase attack rolls with arm-based natural attacks by 1, cumulative. Each pair of limbs boosts Eidolon's Dex by 1.
Note: Adaptations below affecting arms cannot be used to hold weapons.
Limbs Adaptations:
Arms:
(1) Claws-Applies claws to all arm limbs. Eidolon gets 2 claw attacks per pair of limbs affected this way.
(1) Pincers-Applies pincers to all arm limbs. Eidolon gets 2 pincer attacks per pair of limbs affected this way. Pincers are secondary attacks, but boost grapple chance by 2 per pair of pincers. This only occurs if attempting to grab using Pincers.
Legs:
(1) Rakes-Applies rakes to all leg limbs. Eidolon gets 2 rake attacks per pair of limbs affected this way. Rake attacks can only be used on successful grab check.
(1) Hooves-Applies hooves to all leg limbs. Eidolon gets 2 hoof attacks per pair of limbs affected this way. Hoof attacks can only be used on successful trample check.
(1) Talons-Applies to all leg limbs. Gets 2 talon attacks per pair of limbs affected this way. While flying, can use Talons to attack.
(1) Outrunner-Applies to all leg limbs. Increases movespeed by 5 per pair of limbs affected this way. Grants a bonus of 2 per pair of limbs to evade attacks of opportunity which result from movement.
Either:
(1) Spider limbs-Applies to either all arm or all leg limbs. Grants climb speed equal to movespeed + 10 per pair of limbs affected by this evolution.
(1) Fins-Applies to either all arm or all leg limbs, grants swim speed equal to movespeed + 10 per pair of limbs affected by this evolution.
(1) Earthmover-Applies to either all arm or all leg limbs. Grants burrow speed equal to movespeed + 10 per pair of limbs affected by this evolution.
The closest thing I could find related to number of hands required was in the weapons part here. As long as the player is the appropriate size for the weapon, it won't be stepped up (being too small for a two-handed weapon means you can't use it). Otherwise, as long as you have enough hands open, there's nothing specifically against it.
As to getting more than 30, the only other thing I could think of adding would be adding a temporary four through Greater Evolution Surge. I'm fairly certain there's no way to get more than that without using a custom eidolon base form.
Edit: Not sure what happens if you use a bunch of double weapons (non-split).
You forgot to mention you can use Enlarge Person on your familiar using Share Spells, since you can target yourself with it.
"Share Spells: The wizard may cast a spell with a target of “You” on his familiar (as a touch spell) instead of on himself. A wizard may cast spells on his familiar even if the spells do not normally affect creatures of the familiar's type (magical beast)."
Edit: With the Deliver Touch Spells ability, this might even mean the familiar can just touch itself to use share spells.
You think too small, my friend. With a maximum possible 31 points (5 times Extra Evolution feat taken) and picking up only arms with the proficiency evolution on a Bipedal base, you can acquire Limbs(arms) 14 times.
I just noticed the damage dice increase listed for Improved Natural Attack is different than those listed in the Natural Attacks table, found here.
The progression according to the linked table is 1d2,1d3,1d4,1d6,1d8,2d6,2d8,4d6,(unlisted).
I can't seem to find the specific place where it was mentioned, but I remember something about the unlisted portion being twice of something two sizes smaller, meaning it would continue as 4d8,8d6,8d8,etc.
Which one is correct, since there is a clear difference between the two damage steps in written form. The Improved Natural Attack feat claims to increase the dice by one size category, but it does not seem to follow it.
Just wondering, how does this interact with a summoner's Eidolon evolution Improved Damage?
evo wrote:
Improved Damage (Ex)
One of the eidolon’s natural attacks is particularly deadly. Select one natural attack form and increase the damage die type by one step. This evolution can be selected more than once. Its effects do not stack. Each time an eidolon selects this evolution, it applies to a different natural attack
If an Eidolon had, say, 6 claws, what would happen if you chose Improved Damage(Claws) and Improved Natural Attack(Claws)?
Does it only apply to 2 of the claws or all of them?
"In all other cases, this ability functions as the summoner’s normal eidolon ability (for example, the synthesist cannot use his summon monster ability while the eidolon is present)."
I assume this means it functions the same for any other case that the Fused Eidolon ability doesn't explicitly explain what happens.
Thank you for the speedy response; I didn't know the summoner was free to redistribute evolution points every time they level. Does this include points the summoner has from Aspect or Greater Aspect? What use is the fourth level Summoner spell Transmogrify if you essentially get it for free with every level?
Additionally, I was not sure about the attacks required from grapple due to its wording. If that is true, then my question on it related to Energy Attacks is much simpler than I thought.
Anyways, there are some parts of your response that I may need clarified:
Mucronis wrote:
well, it needs two claw attacks to hit, if it has 4 different claw attacks and they all hit, there is nothing in the description of Rend that says it does not happen more then once. so I'd say yes.
The reason I was asking was due to the feat Rending Fury, which allows Rend to activate from half the normally required number of claw attacks. However, the feat itself says the rend cannot be activated more than once per round, creating a discrepancy between the Eidolon evolution and the feat that can be potentially taken.
Mucronis wrote:
12: it adds a 1D6 of energy damage to each normal damage dice / individual natural attack (as natural attacks can only be used once even on a full attack)
I don't quite understand your wording. According to the evolutions, taking Claws and Hooves would give the Eidolon two primary claw attacks and two secondary hoof attacks. With a full-attack with no other natural attacks available, does this mean the Eidolon makes 2 or 4 attacks, applying a similar number of activations of Energy Attacks?
Mucronis wrote:
14. depends on what evolutions he's got from Aspect, anything physical, like a claw attack or size change or wings is lost, as the summoner becomes identical to the eidolon, only "mental" stats remain.
I suspected physical attributes may be purged through changing shape, but I was looking more at the Immunity evolution. I can't quite tell if that is physical or not.
I've unfortunately come up with a couple more questions:
15) How does Swallow Whole work with the use of bite/grappling in future cases? Example: Eidolon bites/grabs/Swallows Whole enemy A. Swallow Whole removes the grapple status from the Eidolon. Is the Eidolon capable of biting/grabbing/swallowing whole enemy B while enemy A is still alive?
16) Can a multi-headed Eidolon with Bite on each head grapple or Swallow Whole more than one unit at a time? I assume as long as the Eidolon is not affected by the grapple condition, it can attempt to grapple again.
I've looked into the universal monster version of Grab and noticed some significant differences. Quoted:
"Grab (Ex)
If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. Unless otherwise noted, grab can only be used against targets of a size equal to or smaller than the creature with this ability. If the creature can use grab on creatures of other sizes, it is noted in the creature's Special Attacks line.
The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply to use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself.
A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text)."
All bolded parts are those that have no mention within the Eidolon version of Grab.
a) Instead of a free action grapple check, the Eidolon version is just called a combat maneuver check. Additionally, the Eidolon version does not state that it prevents attacks of opportunity.
b) I'm not sure if it's allowed or not to use only the body part for the Eidolon.
c) There is absolutely no mention of free damage for the body part that initiated the grapple within the Eidolon Grab for each successful grapple check. This leads me to the following questions:
17) If an Eidolon has more than one body part that can activate Grab, do they get more than one chance to grapple an opponent during a full-attack?
18) Is that free damage from part c of the differences included for the Eidolon grab?
Thank you to those that responded. I've got a couple more questions, still related to Summoners/Eidolons if anyone would be willing to help.
10) Are Eidolons allowed to take any Feat as long as it has the pre-requisites, or are there rules against the taking of certain feats (such as Improved Unarmed Strike)? This question was raised when I found a different post mentioning that monsters are not allowed to take this feat, and am uncertain if this is true or applies to Eidolons as well.
11) Is there a limit to the number of times an Eidolon can use Rend? It does not have the same wording as the monster's version, which mentions a limit to one Rend per round.
12) Does additional damage from the Energy Attacks evolution apply to each successful hit or each unique natural attack? Example: If all attacks hit for an Eidolon with claws and hooves evolutions, does that result in 2d6 or 4d6 energy damage?
13) When a grapple is sustained and damage is chosen, does Energy Attacks apply to it or is it not truly a natural attack? Example: On a successful grapple sustain, player decides to use the Eidolon's claws for its damage. Does Energy Attacks apply (I assume they're automatic successful hits of said natural attack)?
14) If a 20th level summoner uses Twin Eidolon, does the Summoner lose evolutions gained from Aspect/Greater Aspect?
Again, thank you for the aid, it has helped a lot in refining my knowledge behind the Summoner class.
I've been looking into Pathfinder for an upcoming game, and I've got a few questions related to Summoners and Eidolons. I tried searching the d20pfsrd website, but I did not find anything for the following questions:
1) Is Constrict considered a natural attack, thus benefiting from the Energy Attacks mutation?
2) I suspect this will be no, but can Rake be taken more than once?
3) Can the claws gained from Rake be used as a normal primary attack, or can they only be used from successfully grappling?
4) How does a full-attack work, exactly? The most I've found out is the base attack bonus of X/Y/Z has X applies to primary, Y applies to secondary. Z is unknown.
5) Do evolutions like Claws or Pincers from Aspect/Greater Aspect impact the summoner's ability to cast spells?
6) Is the Large evolution stackable with size-altering spells? Example: Casting Enlarge Humanoid on the Eidolon via Share Spells.
7) I assume no to these questions, but is there any way to stack castings of Lesser/Greater Evolution Surge with each other or themselves? Do these momentary evolution points allow one to surpass the maximum number of natural weapons available to an Eidolon? Can Evolution Surge be used to pick up the Large evolution, even though that would put the effective evolution points pool into the deep negatives if Ability Increase has been taken multiple times?
8) Slightly related, is the feat Elemental Fist considered an Improved Unarmed Strike feat for the purpose of the Feral Combat Training feat?
9) Is the Eidolon considered proficient with natural weapons, and if not, is there a feat that would allow for that?
