Dimitri, Varisian Explorer's page

HORSE FACTORY? THAT SOUNDS MAGICAL!

I WISH THERE WAS A CLASS FACTORY WHERE I COULD BE ASSIGNED MY DESTINY. UNFORTUNATELY MY DESIGNER IS TOO INDECISIVE AND THIS CURRENT FORM IS ALL HE CAN AFFORD TO GIVE ME RIGHT NOW.

Count your blessings. Blobs still have potential.

Druids love nature,
But animals eat my face.
I'll focus on lands.

Jiggy wrote:

Off the top of my head, I can't think of a reason the AC couldn't do it by default... but then again, I've not recently read up on ACs.

If only there were a way to summon Grick to this thread...

An Animal Companion can't even "sit" without learning a trick. But you think it should be able to "aid another" by default?

I don't agree.

Like I said, haven't read up on AniComps. :P

Off the top of my head, I can't think of a reason the AC couldn't do it by default... but then again, I've not recently read up on ACs.

If only there were a way to summon Grick to this thread...

As I cited, the RECIPIENT of the bonus must be currently engaged in melee by the enemy, in addition to the "aider" being in melee with the enemy.

EDIT: Or were you asking whether the AC was even capable of performing the Aid Another action at all?

Charlie Bell wrote:

Animal companion's great for an archer druid, too. An animal companion can stand in for a front-line type while you shoot arrows from the back row. PRO TIP: if the previous sounds good to you, go with a high-AC companion like an ankylosaurus. It will not do great damage. HOWEVER, every round it can Aid Another to grant you +2 on your bow attacks--which nicely offsets the -2 penalty from Rapid Shot.

Seriously, you can aid another for a bow attack? And an AC can peform that? Do you have to have a trick trained for it?

Close, but no cigar:

In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you're in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent's next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack.

The one doing the aiding has to be capable of a melee attack against the foe, and the foe interfered with also has to be engaging the beneficiary in melee. Sorry.

Caves subdomain is pretty good.

You get an acid dart power, which is nice: ranged touch, scaling damage, good elemental type.

Magic stone is a decent domain spell, especially against undead. It adds to your ranged capabilities as well.

Your second-level domain spell is create pit, which is really good. If they fail their save, they not only take damage but also get taken out of the fight for a while. Bonus tip: A creature that ends its turn adjacent to the pit has to make a save (at a +2 bonus) or topple in. Ready an action to cast during an enemy's turn - that way, if they make their save, they'll have to spend an action to move away (preventing a full-attack or possibly other actions) or else risk having to make that second save.

Spiked pit for the third domain slot is even better.

And this whole time you have your existing awesome spell list.

I'm seeing spells from the list I posted at every level. So obviously you agree that some of those ranged-but-not-attack-roll spells are worthwhile.

So... what are we discussing, again?

The main reason is that whenever possible, I don't want to rely on my spell's effectiveness being based on the target failing a saving throw.

.....

Attack rolls are quantitatively better than relying on saving throws to be missed.

.....

Spells which require a saving throw are not at the top of my priority list. They are very situational.

Interesting stance. On the other hand, a lot of damage spells still do half damage on a save, meaning you have guaranteed damage. As for the limited supply issue, there's the fact that a lot of the druid's damage spells can hit repeatedly for one casting (produce flame is one attack per level, flaming sphere keeps going and going, call lightning is multiple bolts for a single spell slot, etc).

For instance, for a single casting of call lightning (at the level you get it), you can call down five bolts of lightning for 3d6 damage each. Your range is 150ft, you don't get screwed by cover/concealment/other miss chances, and even if they make every single save, you deal an average of 25 damage (50 at tenth level). If they only make half their saves, you're averaging more like 35-40 damage at 5th level (twice that at 10th level).

That's with ONE spell slot, and ZERO feats.

I think it might be worth a second look. Saves are not quantitatively worse than attack rolls.

In that case, you didn't really read the post of mine that you were replying to. ;)

And in the context of the OP's request, why would you impose that limit? He just wants to be able to stand outside of melee and kill things from a distance. You don't need to make an attack roll to do that. In fact, the very fact you point out (that so few druid damage spells use attack rolls) makes the archery feats even less appealing. By level 5 or so, you're bringing lots of ranged hurt without benefitting from those feats very much at all. So wouldn't this be the better way of being a ranged druid?

Druids get very few ranged attack spells.

Second Level Spells

Third Level Spells
Call Lightning
Aqueous Orb
Burst of Nettles

Fourth Level Spells
Flame Strike
Ice Storm
Spike Stones
Ball Lightning
Geyser
Volcanic Storm

Fifth Level Spells
Call Lightning Storm
Wall of Fire
Fire Snake

So... what were you saying?

So I want to be a support character and I opted for the Domain/spells versus an animal companion, and chose fire since I want to back row.

I'm not entirely sold on it since I only get the +1 spell but the 7 uses of the mini d6 ranged touch attack help with that. (why oh why can't druids get a decent ranged weapon?)

we're starting at 1st level and I've been out of 3.5/Pathfinder for about a year so I'm a little rusty.

I'm not a huge MUST BE OPTIMIZED guy but i don't want to nerf myself either.
What do you all think?

Well, I'm a Druid (Menhir Savant) with the Caves subdomain instead of an animal companion.

Level 1 is always rough for a spellcaster. Don't be afraid to use a sling (and make sure you know the eratta on Heirloom Weapon!). Magic stone is a deceptively good low-level spell, especially if you have a little STR and/or are fighting undead.

Once you get a caster level or two under your belt, produce flame can give you multiple 120ft attacks per casting (against touch AC, even).

Your ranged options just go up from there, with not all of them requiring attack rolls. You have a fantastic spell list.

So I wouldn't even worry about archery feats; by the time you hit 3rd level, your spells/attacks will either not use attack rolls or be targeting touch AC anyway.

Dimitri, Varisian Explorer wrote:

Unusual characters, you say? I'm a druid who's actually not too fond of animals.

Treehugger!

More like "dirthugger", really. I'm a Menhir Savant - my reverence of nature is focused on the land itself.

Unusual characters, you say? I'm a druid who's actually not too fond of animals.

a cleric or druid can turn into nightmare.

Recognize!

Heh, my parents don't even know I'm a druid. See, I always liked exploring and wanted to travel - having grown up in Varisia, I saw a lot of neat stuff and met exotic people and I wanted to go and see things for myself. Eventually, I heard about the Pathfinder Society, and how Pathfinders get sent on missions all over the Inner Sea and beyond. Which to my ears sounded like "FREE TRIPS EVERYWHERE WOOO!" so naturally I started walking.

Walked and walked, and walked some more. Saw lots of interesting landscapes, and loved it. Somewhere - I'm not sure where, though I'm pretty sure it was before I got to Andoren - there was this cave. It seemed like a normal cave, and I spent the night in it, just like dozens of others. Except when I woke up, there were markings all over the walls - druidic writing (which I couldn't read). There was something else new, too: there was a weird mark covering most of my right hand. Through my hand, I could feel a connection to the earth like I'd never felt before. And then when I touched the writing on the cave walls, there was some kind of jolt, and suddenly I could read it all.

Near as I can tell, that's when I became a druid. I've since learned that the mark on my hand is related to a very old deity named Ng, so I'm guessing he had something to do with that day. (Why he didn't make me a cleric, I have no idea. Maybe he wanted to enhance my connection with the land, and becoming a menhir savant was a better means to that end than becoming a cleric?)

Anyway, I kept walking until I got to the Andoran shore, hitched a boat ride to Absalom, and signed up. I've been exploring the world and bonding with new lands ever since. But it hasn't changed my general distaste for animals.

roll 1d6

1-3 = Dodge
4-6 = Weapon Focus
7-9 = Combat Casting.

Dislike Combat Casting that much, eh? Can you elaborate?

Well, uh, even if you don't like animals, I assume you're going to be wildshaping when you can, right? Weapon Focus (Scimitar) will look worse when you've got claws.

.

.

>.>

<.<

>.>

I can neither confirm nor deny the claim that I will be skipping Wild Shape until I can turn into an elemental.

the full BAB PCs won't hate you for running back to cast Summon Animal Ally

I, um, well... I kind of, er, don't like animals...

I want to be somewhat versatile.

For instance, in my last mission, I fought a couple of little buggers who were really good at getting cover and taking their AC up past 20. I considered casting frostbite so I'd have a couple of shots at their (slightly) lower touch AC (plus a debuff!) but decided against it because I'd have to either cast defensively (without Combat Casting) or step away (without using a 5' step due to difficult terrain) and cast and then step back up the next round.

So in a situation like that...
...Weapon Focus would help, as I'd have had a better chance at hitting them.
...Combat Casting would help, as I'd have a better chance at getting those Touch attacks.
...Dodge would help, as I'd last longer and be able to get more attacks, thus allowing more chances for good rolls to hit them.

So... yeah. Still feeling indecisive. :P

It all depends on what you see your PC doing in each fight. That's what you really need to know. Looking at your STR (and other stuff) I'd say you're more likely gonna be swinging your scimitar in melee. And since you're a medium BAB, I suggest Weapon Focus all the way.

But of course if you figure you want to go more casting (with a 14 WIS?!?) -- go with Combat Casting. But that doesn't sound like your PC at low levels. Fighting does.

Regarding the 14 WIS - remember, spells that don't grant saves are usually the same whether cast with a 14 or a 99. So when I'm chucking magic stones for 2d6+5 damage against some zombies, I'm totally fine with that 14 WIS. Or when I'm swinging a flame blade around, or zapping someone with frostbite, etc. Those could all be cast with a WIS of 11-12, and none of them gain any benefit from having anything higher.

Anyway: I do want to be front-line viable. So yeah, WF(Scimitar) does sound appealing. But is it more important than, say, Dodge? Both help with being in front. And what about when the guy's AC is too high to be practical, and I want to start hitting his touch instead, via some of the aforementioned combat spells? By not needing to step back to cast and then step up again, Combat Casting also helps my front-line ability.

So does that affect your advice at all?

Please note that this is a PFS character.

So I just hit level 3. Here's how I look at level 2:

Human (Varisian)
Druid2 (Menhir Savant)
STR 17
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 14
CHA 07
Traits: Birthmark, Armor Expert

01:Druid1[Spirit Sense][1st level spells][Domain:Caves], Toughness, Cosmopolitan
02:Druid2[Place Magic]
03:Druid3[2nd level spells], FEAT

At first I was thinking Weapon Focus (Scimitar) for more front-line effectiveness. On the other hand, Combat Casting would be great for when I want to cast produce flame, flame blade, or frostbite in melee. Also, Dodge could be worth considering, raising my AC from 19 to 20.

All of these options seem good for a front-line style druid, but I'm not sure how to prioritize them. Suggestions?

Best way for druids to fight undead is to be a cleric.

Seriously, druids are historically rotten at fighting undead, and I'm not sure there's anything wrong with that. If you must be, fire works well against just about all undead, that would be really, the only way to go.

But accept the fact that you'll be lousy at it.

Someone obviously hasn't tried it. Check out my above post; druids get magic stone, which gives you three attacks (at range) with a +2 to hit and 2d6+2+STRmod damage per hit, as a single first-level spell. You can also run around poking zombies in the eye with your wand of cure light wounds.

Honestly, the only difference between clerics and druids in regard to effectiveness against undead is Channel Energy, the lack of which does NOT make a character be "lousy" against undead.

Hey Quatar, Dimitri the Druid here.

I've had some very successful endeavors against the undead, and I'm using the Caves domain (subdomain of Earth). The best thing so far? Magic Stone. With my 17 STR to add to the damage, magic stone gives me three shots that deal 2d6+5 each against undead. I get that as a domain spell, and can prepare extras of it if I expect more undead.

Also, create pit is my second level domain spell. I haven't had a chance to use it yet (I only just leveled up to 3rd), but I can't imagine that zombies or skeletons or whatever would do very well against it. How good could their reflex saves really be? And once they're down, are they really going to be able to climb out very well?

Another thing to consider is archetypes. For instance, I'm a Menhir Savant. As such, I can detect the presence of undead. That can be a huge help. Just the other day I was exploring a tower, and detected three auras on the ceiling - turned out to be these creepy zombie hands waiting to jump down on us. But thanks to my Spirit Sense, we got the jump on them. Same when we got to the next room: there was a ghoul who'd quaffed a potion of invisibility, but I pinpointed him and forced him to engage before he was ready.

I didn't really come into this planning to own undead in the face, but that sure seems to be what I'm doing so far!

Dimitri,

I didnt mean to make you have a sad face. Was it my ignorance, or something else? :)

Just that you call me a "pale shadow of a druid with an animal companion."

*sniff*

And the spell-casting kind with no animal companion is a pale shadow of a druid with an animal companion.

:(

I'm awesome too!

I'm a druid, though since I don't really like animals all that well, people sometimes confuse me for a cleric (or ask me why I didn't become one in the first place).

Frankly, it had a lot to do with enjoying wandering, and also having trouble finding any temples to Ng.

But anyway! I like to think I'm pretty cool. I've killed zombies and ghouls just by throwing rocks at them, I've scaled cliffs with a silly gnome's riding dog strapped to my back, and I'm still a full caster, baby!

Kyra,
I'm a druid. As I'm sure you know, this means you and I have some things in common - we're both potent divine spellcasters, we both have similar proficiency in combat, and so forth. What's your opinion on druids? How many do you know? How similar do you feel your path in life is to that of a druid? (Does your answer to that question change if the druid in question is like me and doesn't like animals?) Did you ever consider becoming a druid yourself?

Hi everyone, I'm a druid.

I've got a question for more experienced adventurers than myself:

You see, I don't really like animals. At all. I chose to forego gaining a pet in favor of superior spellcasting ability. I skipped out on some of the usual, animal-loving druidyness to focus more on connecting with the very land itself (I'm a menhir savant).

But it won't be long before people start expecting me to actually shapeshift into an animal. Turn into an animal! Blech, no thanks. Is there something else I could learn to do instead? Anyone have ideas?

(Looking for an archetype that replaces the Wild Shape ability and doesn't conflict with the Menhir Savant archetype.)

We used to have a druid with cha as her dump stat. She claimed that she wasn't ugly, she was just socially awkward

Pfft, people just don't understand us druids! Just because we forsake all societal norms of tact, hygiene, having a home, regular contact with other humanoids...

...crap.

Retire the characters at whatever level they decide they are done with this adventuring ordeal.

Whether that is at level 2...

I've had it! I know I only just joined up with the Pathfinder Society, but I thought I'd get to go exploring interesting lands! Now I'm throwing rocks at zombies in opera houses? Forget it! I'm getting out!

Heh, kidding. (Not about the rocks, though - killed two zombies, one of them with a single rock. I'm that good.)