Dietrich von Sachsen's page

So recently my group had an interesting discussion about non-magical healing options and using the Heal skill, and so I decided to roll up a 5th level Dhampir Alchemist with the Chirugeon archetype and a ludicrous Heal modifier. However, as a result of this unusual build, I have some questions about how some of these things interact.

1) For the Specialized Healer's Satchel (Healer's Handbook, pg 28), does it comes with all four abilities (Diagnosis, First Aid, Long-Term Care, and Treatment), or does the creator of the bag have to pick one?

2) The Healer's Satchel says:

"The wielder also gains a +4 circumstance bonus on Heal checks when she expends uses of the healer’s satchel to treat poisons and provide first aid (this does not stack with the normal +2 circumstance bonus granted for using a healer’s kit)."

My character also has Surgeons' Tools:

"When used in conjunction with a healer’s kit, surgeon’s tools raise the kit’s bonus to a +3 circumstance bonus on Heal checks to treat wounds or deadly wounds."

Does the bonus from Surgeons Tools stack with the improved Healer's Kit bonus, for a total of +5, or does the +4 bonus overrule the Surgeon's Tools?

3) My character also have a Boline:

"Bolines are hook-shaped knives commonly used by herbalists and spellcasters to harvest ingredients for their craft. A boline’s blade is typically 5 inches long, and is too small and irregular to use as a weapon. You can use a boline to finely slice the herbs in a healer’s kit, so you can treat deadly wounds with only a single use from a healer’s kit rather than two uses."

Does this work with the Healer's Satchel?

4) The Healer's Satchel description reads:

"When the wielder expends 2 uses from a healer’s satchel to treat deadly wounds with the Heal skill, she adds her Wisdom bonus to the amount of hit points restored, and if she exceeds the DC by 5 or more, she adds 2 × her Wisdom bonus to the amount restored."

My character has the Incredible Healer feat, which allows me to heal hp = my Heal Check instead of "the normal amount". Does this extra bonus from the Healer's Satchel apply to the Incredible Healer feat, or is it only added to "the normal amount"?

5) Final question - honest! My character has the Healer's Hands feat:

"You can use the Heal skill to treat deadly wounds as a full-round action. You do not take a penalty for not using a healer’s kit when treating deadly wounds this way, and you can do so on a given creature more than once per day. When treating deadly wounds this way, if your result exceeds the DC by 10 or more, add your ranks in Knowledge (planes) to the damage healed. These benefits do not apply to creatures that are not healed by positive energy. You can use this feat’s benefit a number of times per day equal to your ranks in Knowledge (planes)."

Concerning that last sentence... does that apply just to the adding of the Knowledge (planes) modifier to the damage healed, or to everything (including the use as a full-round action and the multiple times per day treating deadly wounds)?

I know it's a lot of questions, but I want to make sure I've done this build correctly.

In my experience, the efficient stats of a Chain Shirt mdkes every other liht afmor a completely moot point, save for Leather as your go-to armor on 1st adventurers. It's like the alternatives might as well not exist. If armor check penalties are an issue, of you have super high dex, just get it in Mithral.

And when it comes to the next catagory, that lightweight material throws off medium armor even more. A Breastplate suddenly has a near nonexistant check penalty and a max dex mod that even an archer could appreciate. Hell, if you knock the check penalty down wih a trait, you don't even need to be PROFICIENT to wear it without an issue. All this without hampering your movement speed.

I find a lot of my players with high dexterities go for MW Studded Leather for much of their early career because of the armour check and weight. Obviously once they can afford it, mithril is brilliant.

I also see a lot of players use leather, studded leather, and leather lamellar as barding for their horses for the protection, without hampering the horses' movement.

EDIT: Also, Lamellar Cuirass is the best armour for spellcasters. +2 AC, +4 Max Dex, no Armour Check and only 5% Spell Failure. And it's a bargain at 15 gp.

Actually the worst item on the list is scale mail, which stopped being worn around Roman time- in fact the Romans only used it ceremonially.

Perhaps they meant Brigandine?

Well Scale Armour wasn't exclusively worn ceremonially, and even as late as the 1400's some parts of medieval armour had scale components, typically as a skirt covering the groin. But you're right, it was never very popular for a number of reasons.

That said, if we want to go that route, we need to realize that Studded Leather is a complete fantasy. I suspect that was a mis-reading of brigandine from tomb effigies, which has studs, but the rivets are holding metal plates behind the leather or cavnas.

But studded leather has been around so long that it's pretty much a D&D trope.

I agree 100%. I'd also like to point out how worthless Hide is, outside of that brief time at level one that a Chain Shirt isn't affordable (and even then, 99% of the time I just go with Studded Leather instead of Hide because at that point the armor check penalty hurts). And it only gets worse once Mythril quality armor becomes available.

I wish it gave like, Ice Resistance 2 or something. And that there were better item qualities for Non-Metal Armors (if anyone knows of an obscure item material that would make Hide Armor worth using, please, enlighten me!)

The nice thing about Hide though is, whilst mostly useless, is also dirt cheap, making it useful for at least a short window. The same can't be said of chainmail; it's too expensive to be the budget option, but not good enough to be worth buying later on.

The heavier part is pretty straightforward. Traditionally when you wear chainmail you aren't just wearing chainmail, you're wearing padding over you skin and rigid leather to provide additional support and protection.

You're wearing padding for any of the medium and heavy armours (except for the armoured coat and hide). Even with a breastplate or full plate, they would have rigid leather and padded gambesons underneath. Any number of historical texts will back me up on that.

In addition, the entire weight of chain mail rests on your shoulders, making it feel heavier than some heavier armors whose weights are better distributed.

Having worn and fought in the stuff, that's demonstrably false. Chainmail is always worn with a belt specifically to distribute the weight away from your shoulders.

Another point concerning horm lamellar and similiar armors, the fact that they are non-metallic is part of their value, this makes them immune to certain magical effects, and usable by druids. So they have advantages that will makes some characters choose them, in spite of increased cost or slightly reduced performance.

I had failed to consider that (although bizarrely, I did think of that when looking at Stoneplate in heavy armours).

Alright, fair enough. Horn Lamellar gets a pass. Iron being better than steel is still silly though. :)

There's nothing wrong with reskinning, but the other option is for a DM to talk to players about their ideal armor aesthetically. That way when loot, especially magic loot is dropped, you can give the players what they want. Are you gonna wear that full plate you bought? Or this super cool plus two fortification scale mail??

In my view, a good GM should be doing that anyways. :)

Part of the mental disconnect here is the mashup of historic, or rather technogical, periods. In typical fantasy fashion we have scale armor, full suits of maille, splinted armor and articulated plate side by side. There are reasons that armor types changed and were replaced in history, but we want them all present in our game. Keeping all the options is going to leave some odd realism questions. You either need to accept this or tinker it up (in a home game.)

Fully understood. I'm not arguing that Pathfinder should limit itself technologically when it comes to armours. My point is purely from a mechanical standpoint; so many of the Medium Armours are mechanically worthless. Surely we should have a reason to want to use them in our games, if we're going to even bother making rules for them.

Tinkering with them for my home games is something I plan on doing; but I don't think it's too much to mention my concerns in a broader context. Other people may be thinking the same thing, and if enough people think that a rule doesn't make sense, perhaps it time to change the rule?

Food for thought.

Just FYI, the price on Four-mirror armor got bumped up to 125gp in the errata to UE.

I didn't know that! Thank you. That makes Four Mirror far more sensible.

I was under the impression that breastplate only covers the torso, while chainmail covers the whole body: torso, legs, arms, and head. I could be wrong, though, but if that's so, seems feasible that it would weigh more and encumber more. I have no idea how thick the breastplate would need to be to match its weight, though. If anything, I'd wonder why breastplates give more AC than chainmail does.

Your thinking on this lines up perfectly with mine. If a breastplate covers less, it should be less protective; otherwise, if it's a breastplate but with leg and armour armour (of maille or some other type) it should be heavier and more encumbering.

This is going to sound like a very minor niggle, but it's been something that's bothered me for a while. This came about largely from a one-off game I was doing where the players were playing their Pathfinder alternate selves (think of the old D&D cartoon), and I was purchasing armour for my cavalier character.

Now, for full disclosure, I am an armoured fighter in the Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA), and I fight in a maille hauberk. I *adore* chainmail, and think it's great. Whilst SCA combat certainly is divorced in a lot of ways from actual combat, the wearing of armour is one part that is - or can be- very authentic.

I also want to point out that I'm aware of the dangers of trying to apply real-world physics and logic to D&D.

With that said... I think the design of Medium Armours is really wonky.

If we look at Light Armours, most of them are pretty well designed (except for Leaf Armour... I can think of no reason why you'd shell out 500 gp for armour that is functionally identically to Masterwork Studded Leather or Parade Armour, which only costs 175 gp).

At the top end of the light armour, we have Chain Shirts at 100 gp, which is quite a bit more than most other armours, but it's the only one that gives a +4 armour bonus. It's a bit heavier than the others, but only by about 5 lbs, which is reasonable. It's slightly higher armour check penalty also means that some of the less protective but less encumbering light armours remain in play, depending on build and stats. The Armoured Kilt is also a nice option for customizing armours. Personally, I think that the Quilted Cloth should only a 5% Spell Failure, as the 10% makes it worthless to the people most likely to wear it - Arcane Spellcasters - but overall, I think the designers did a good job here. There is a enough variety in Light Armours without making most of the armours here rubbish.

Heavy Armour is also fairly well balanced. The only thing that raises an eyebrow is Field Plate. I like the mechanics, but it's overpriced - 1,350 gp is a heck of a price to pay just to have 1 fewer Armour check penalty over Masterwork Banded Mail, which is 400 gp. (And even more minor niggle... why is Iron Lammellar more protective than Steel Lamellar? Surely Iron is softer and more brittle a material... but I digress). Splint Mail is really the only red-headed stepchild of the lot, but it's designed to be the super cheap heavy armour option, so I give it a pass.

But Medium Armour?

As I've said, I adore maille. I would also point out that maille was THE armour for most of the medieval period, as well as in late antiquity, and it was used almost world-wide. But in Pathfinder, you'd have to be stark raving mad to choose chainmail as your character's armour.

Let's compare chainmail to a breastplate. The breastplate is 50 gp more expensive than the maille, which makes sense - after all, chainmail is demonstrably less protective than a solid steel plate. But why on earth does the breastplate weigh less, have less armour check, and less Arcane Spell Failure? Yes chainmail is supposed to be the "budget" option, but at only 50 gp difference almost every character is going to wait for one measily encounter to scrape up the difference and then buy breastplate. Either breastplates need to be more expensive so it's worth it to buy chainmail ever, or else chainmail needs to be improved.

It keeps even more bonkers when you start factoring in the eastern armours. Why would someone dish out 150 gp for chainmail when you can get the exact same thing in Four-Mirror armour for 45 gp? Yes, it weighs 5 lbs more, but for a 105 gp discount I'd take Four Mirror over chaimail any day. (This gets sillier when you realize that, historically, Four-Mirror armour was worn OVERTOP OF MAILLE.) Steel Lammellar has the same problem - it costs the same as chainmail at 150 gp, but is either identical or better than chainmail. So why would you EVER buy chainmail?

Since I'm on the subject, Horn Lamellar and Scale Mail are completely identical stat wise, but Horn costs twice as much. Finally, Mountain Pattern Armour is beyond useless. It's either equal to or worse than a breastplate in every way, and it's 50 gp more.

Pathfinder is, on the whole, a brilliantly written and overall well-designed game, and commend the people at Paizo for so much. However, I can't help but feel this small area of the game desperately needs a rework of some kind.

Dietrich von Sachsen wrote:

If you wish, nogoodscallywag, I would be happy to post the system I used.

Please do.

TAXATION MODIFIERS* (affects all income sources except events):

INCOME (Cities and Checks):
Base Value of “main” city (max 2,000 gp)
½ of Base of “secondary” city (max 1,000 gp)
¼ of Base Value of other cities (max 250 gp)
50 gp if Build Point gained from Stability
25 gp per 5 Build Points gained from Economy (ruler gains 25 gp per Build Point gained from Economy)*
-10 gp per point of Unrest at start of Event Phase
5 gp per Minor Item Slot
10 gp per Medium Item Slot
15 gp per Major Item Slot
50 gp per Mansion
100 gp per Noble Villa
100 gp per Castle
*Under my system, the players could grant estates within their realm to NPC nobles, giving them the incomes from those hexes/cites/improvements. The Ruler always got a better bonus to income from Economy than did the nobles.

INCOME (Resources):
Gold Mine: 250 gp (500 gp with Mine)
Sootscale Silver Mine: 100 gp (200 gp with Mine; x2 if Kobolds are evicted)
Flooded Silver Mine: 200 gp (400 gp with Mine; only if drained for either)
Ironstone Gully Iron Mine: 100 gp (200 gp with Mine)
Whispering Valley Gemstone Mine: 300 gp (600 with Mine or Quarry)
Coachwood Grove: 75 gp (150 gp with Sawmill; x2 if Melianse if evicted)
Lake Silverstep: 50 gp with Fishery
Cloudberry Patch: 25 gp (50 gp with Farm)
Other Mines: 50 gp
Other Quarries: 25 gp
Other Sawmills: 10 gp
Other Fisheries: 5 gp
Useful Plants: 5 gp (10 gp with Farm)
Other Farms: 5 gp
Roads: 5 gp/4 roads; 1/5th the value of a Trade Route if Trade Route that does not involve a city in your domain
Highways: 25 gp if a highway connects a settlement to a settlement in your domain; otherwise counts as road.
Rivers or Canals: 5 gp/4 rivers; Rivers with a waterfall do not count
10 per Watchtower
25 per Fort

INCOME (Events):
Bandit Activity: -25 gp x Build Points lost
Boomtown: 10 gp x Bonus to Economy
Crop Failure: 50% or 0% income from Farms affected
Economic Boom: 50 gp x Build Points gained
Food Shortage: -25 gp x Increase in Consumption points
Food Surplus: Double Farm or Fishery Income (DM’s choice)
New Subjects: 15 gp x Build Points Gained
Outstanding Success: 100 gp
Remarkable Treasure: Triple the Value of the Item Slot
Slavers: -100 gp
Smugglers: -100 gp per check failed
Vandals: 10 gp x 1d6

INCOME (Trade):
Trade Route Resounding Success: 100 x BP earned back
Trade Route Established: 25 x BP earned back
Trade Route Failed: 10 x BP earned back
Trade Route Total Loss: -200 x (Every 5 BP invested)
Food Trade Route: 25 gp
Goods Trade Route: 50 gp
Luxuries Trade Route: 100 gp
Raw Materials Trade Route: 30 gp

MONTHLY EXPENDITURES:
Royal Domain:
Government Salaries: 75 gp/month for each member of Government
Maid Salaries: 6 gp/month per maid
Cook Salaries: 15 gp/month per cook
Stablehand Salaries: 10 gp/month per Stablehand
Soldier Salaries: 30 gp/month per Soldier
Household Knight Salary: 50 gp/month per Knight
Upkeep (food, candles, etc.): 150-350 gp/month depending on the size of your castle; DM fiat.
Horse Upkeep: 10 gp per horse; Ponies and smaller mounts cost 7 gp, more exotic mounts cost more depending on mount.
Major Domo/Steward salary: 50 gp/month
Chief Herald salary: 50 gp/month
Master Builder salary: 50 gp/month
Master of Dispatch: 30 gp/month
Bird Feed and Raven care: 12 gp/month for six Ravens
Master Smith: 120 gp/month
Guard Captain: 120 gp/month
Royal Chirugeon: 30 gp/month
Chronicler: 150 gp/month
Embassy Upkeep: 100 gp/month per Embassy (requires Embassy)
Wine and Beer Cellar: 100 gp/month (requires Brewery)
Good Food: 50 gp/month (Requires Inn, Pier, or Tavern, and either a Granary or 5 Farms)
Excellent Food: 100 gp/month (Requires either two of either Inn, Pier or Tavern OR Market or Stockyard; AND either a Granary and 5 Farms, OR 10 Farms)
Amazing Food: 200 gp/month (Requires two of either Inn, Pier or Tavern AND Market or Stockyard AND Granary and 10 Farms)
Hosting a Modest Feast: 100 gp per 20 guests
Hosting a Grand Feast: 400 gp per 20 guests (requires Brewery)
Hosting an Extravagant Feast: 800 gp per 20 guests (requires Brewery and Granary)

UPGRADES:
Construct new Buildings: see Ultimate Campaign
Upgrade Furnishings: 300 gp (+5 to income check of the room)
Stone Wall for Inner Bailey: 3,500 gp (Requires Quarry)*
Improved Towers for Inner Bailey: 2,500 gp (Requires Quarry and Stone Wall)*
Stone Wall for Outer Bailey: 10,000 gp (Requires Quarry)*
Improved Towers for Outer Bailey: 8,000 gp (Requires Quarry and Stone Wall)*
Siege Engines: Varies (cannons and the like require Alchemist, Exotic Artisan, and Smithy)*
Gatehouse Iron Door: 500 gp
Gatehouse Wooden Portcullis: 500 gp
Gatehouse Iron Portcullis: 1,000 gp

*The Castle began with a wooden palisade wall, maintaining the wall it had when the Stag Lord lived there.

In my Kingmaker game, the party has a number of side businesses they run when they're not ruling or adventuring.

The (now deceased) human Rogue built and ran a bar called "The Lord's Den". The manager he hired - a Tiefling woman - is now a PC in her own right, having taken over as Spymaster.

The half-elf Oracle of Life, who is also the Kingdom's ruler, runs a charitable hospital dedicated to Sarenrae, where she spends time treating people with illnesses and injuries.

The human Storm Druid runs... an engineering firm... building public works and buildings in an environmentally sustainable way. While many people have commented "worst druid ever", his real goal - to build an airship and travel the center of the Eye of Abendigo - is well served by this business.

The half-elf Sorcerer runs a magic shop, along with her two "apprentices" (who mainly use her library, rather than learning directly from her), complete with an alchemy lab, an observatory, and a greenhouse. She uses it to help fund her research into both the ancient Cyclops Empire of Casmaron and into dragons - one of which she has a very personal grudge against.

A couple of the former party members were members of the Restov City Watch; one retired to accept the post of Night Watch Commander, allowing him to be nearer to his 9-year-old son, the other now works as the party's Ambassador to Varnhold.

One of my players is playing a Fighter with the Dragoon archetype. Dragoons get Armour Training 1 at Third Level, but do not get Armour Training 2, 3 or 4.

The wording of Armour Training says:

Starting at 3rd level, a fighter learns to be more maneuverable while wearing armor. Whenever he is wearing armor, he reduces the armor check penalty by 1 (to a minimum of 0) and increases the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor by 1. Every four levels thereafter (7th, 11th, and 15th), these bonuses increase by +1 each time, to a maximum –4 reduction of the armor check penalty and a +4 increase of the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed.

In addition, a fighter can also move at his normal speed while wearing medium armor. At 7th level, a fighter can move at his normal speed while wearing heavy armor. (Emphasis mine).

7th level is when a Fighter gains Armour Training 2.

My question is this: Is this 7th level ability tied to having Armour Training 2, or is it just cogent on having Armour Training and being 7th level? Can a 7th Level Dragoon move at full speed in Heavy Armour?

So I've been looking into starting a seafaring game (not exactly S&Sh, but something like it) for a little while now, but one thing that kind of bothers me is how limited ship variety is. Sure, you can buy modifications, but that really doesn't cover the broad range of ships that I'm sure are sailing about in Golarion.

One thing I always liked about the old 3.5e Stormwrack book was the decent variety of ships you could get. Not just the default "sailing ship", but cogs, pinnaces, drommands, and the like. Especially at low levels, having the PC's commanding a Pinnace means they could command the thing all by themselves and not need more than a couple of crew,

Does anyone have any pointers about how to convert these ships into Pathfinder rules? In particular, determining Base Save, hp, total squares of sail and rigging, etc.