Devon Harmon's page

Here's how I thougt it might work: If you want to maintain more than one grapple, you can, but each one is checked with the -20 penalty. In this case, it is a standard action to maintain all grapples. I always thought that a creature would be using all of its limbs to try and grapple. If it only used the appendege in the initial attack to grapple, then it is at -20 to start it, and to maintain, but this frees up the other appendages to attack/grapple. So in this case the Froghemoth could either grapple on individual at its full CMB, or use its CMB -20 to try and grapple up to six.

I know this is probably wrong as heck, but it made sense to me when I was trying to figure out this whole grab/grapple thing. I still don't really know how to determine if something is grappled in the mouth (this applies to the Giant frog too). It would look like the Froghemoth can attack one target with its bite, and a different target with its tounge, and try to grapple each of them.

I think it is great that there are these universal abilities and all, but sometimes I yearn for the days where the monster entry just spelled out what exactly the monster did, and precisely how that monster's abilities worked, without trying to make it fit into some combination of predefined abilities.

Grapple

As a standard action, you can attempt to grapple a foe, hindering his combat options. If you do not have Improved Grapple, grab, or a similar ability, attempting to grapple a foe provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver.

This is the part that I missed. Now everything is clicking. It would have been nice if the Grab ability description in the Bestiary would have reiterated that AoO are not provoked by grapple attempts by creatures with this ability. I'm just sayin'. ;)

Now if I could just figure out how a Giant Frog can ever use its Pull ability, I'll be all set :)

Devon Harmon wrote:

stuart haffenden wrote:

So are there any monsters that can attempt to start a Grapple with something their own size without provoking an AoO ?

Did a search for "Improved Grapple" and it appears that not a single monster has this Feat!

The Darkmantle can start a grapple against a foe of any size. Improved Grapple no longer exists as a feat. It has been replaced with the Grab ability.

Actually, Improved Grapple does still exist, p. 127 of the core rulebook, and there's also a greater grapple feat on p. 125. I don't see why either of them wouldn't apply to creatures with the grab special ability or those that just grapple normall (or both.)

My bad. It looks like I was confusing Improved Grapple with Improved Grab.

So are there any monsters that can attempt to start a Grapple with something their own size without provoking an AoO ?

Did a search for "Improved Grapple" and it appears that not a single monster has this Feat!

The Darkmantle can start a grapple against a foe of any size. Improved Grapple no longer exists as a feat. It has been replaced with the Grab ability.

that is very weird.

I wonder if this is a misprint.

I had similar thoughts about other monsters that I posted in the erratta thread. For example, the choker, a creature whose whole gimmick is grabbing, is a small creature, so it can only grab tiny, fine, and diminute creatures, but this directly contradicts information presented in the fluff paragraphs.

What size creatures can a Choker grab? It has the grab ability, which "unless otherwise noted, grab works only against opponents at least one size category smaller than the creature" (Bestiary, 301). The Choker is small, so he can only grab tiny, diminutive, and fine ceatures, correct? There is no exception noted in the rules portion of his statistics block. In the accompanying "fluff", it is noted that "a choker will attempt to grasp creaturs of almost any size, but prefers lone prey of its size or smaller" (Bestiary, 45). I was under the impression that the "fluff" text describing the moster was not actual rules. Is this sentence enough to allow the Choker to grasp huge or colossal creatures?

Compare it to the Darkmantle (Bestiary, 55), who has a specail ability listed that allows it to grab a foe of any size. Should the Choker have a similar special ability listed.

The Gibbering Mouther (Bestiary, 153) has an Engulf attack that is listed as being usable against a foe of its size or smaller. However, a creature must be grabbed before the engulf can happen. By RAW, the Gibbering Mouther can only use its grab attack on opponents at least one size category smaller. So even though it says it can engulf a medium creature, the rules don't allow it to grab a medium creature to start the engulf. Should the Gibbering Mouther have a special ability that allows it to grab a foe os its size or smaller?

While we are discussing lingo, would anyone care to enlighten me about the terms "Gish" and "CoDzilla." I've frequently seem them thrown about on the forums and I haven't a clue as to what they mean. As far as I'm concerned, Gish is a Smashing Pumpkins album.

PS, is there a handy thread for newcomers where we can learn this stuff, like an FAQ? Thanks.

I think there might be something wrong with the Ettin entry. It is listed as having 8 melee attacks (2 flails +12/+12/+7/+7). It is my belief that this should read "2 flails +12/+7" which would give it only 4 melee attacks, and bring it back in line with its 3.5 counterpart (unless it was the intent to double its attacks and leave its CR the same)

Excellent questions! I was reading Crypt of the Everflame today and I came across the Giant Frogs. I was trying to figure out the interations between Pull and Grab, as they relates to the Frog's tongue attack. The tongue deals no damage on a hit, but can be used to grab with a successful combat maneuver check. It also says "The frog can make a free combat maneuver check with a successful tongue attack. If successful, the tongue pulls the frog's opponent 5 feet closer to the frog."

So when I hit with the tongue, is that one CM check for both the grab and the pull, or are there 2 distinct CM checks? One to see if the character is grabbed, then another to see if the character is pulled? If the check to grab fails, do you still check to see if the character is pulled (maybe the tongue is really sticky and still pulls the guy even though he's not grabbed)?

Maybe I just don't understand the grapple rules well enough....again.