Date of Lies's page

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on the beer and pretzels game: You may be right about that, but then he fails to make it fun and honestly, I think I may suggest that we go from the AP to a hotseat DM style game night where we run small self-contained adventures that each of us comes up with for fun.

Fabius: I can understand that, but not for the next room in the dungeon (where we stopped in between sessions).

It is an AP (Legacy of Fire). But running an AP doesn't absolve one from running a bore-fest.


I run a weekly game which I put a lot of effort in. I also participate in a bi-weekly game where another person DMs, and honestly, I find him to be a pretty crummy DM and I'm not sure if I'm just being arrogant or what but what would you call a DM who:

1) In the months that we've played together has never once tried to relate the environment to the characters, he has never taken interest in our characters personality and goals, and just runs his adventure completely stock out of the book (it's a pre-written adventure).

2) Despite the fact that it's a pre-written adventure, he never comes prepared in the sense that he must read the details of the dungeon rooms and encounters as they occur and we all need to sit there patiently for minutes at a time for him to finish reading and then be greeted with "hmm, wonder what they mean by this..." or "Hmm, oh okay they're refering to this page". And he will read the environment descriptions directly off the book with little to no emotion in his voice.

3) Despite the fact that our party is clearly overpowered, has never adjusted the battles to increase the challenge. We have hence never once had what I could call a tense fight. We usually finish all fights in two rounds or less, and with barely any damage.

Is it just me or does he just not care all that much or maybe has poor taste in what makes a good game? And being faced with this situation, I have difficulty imagining the situation where I would come up to him and tell him to up his game, and hence since I am hosting the game at my house, I'm just tempted to either cancel the whole campaign and/or try to change the DM, both things which are pretty damn politically uncomfortable and are bound to ruffle more than a few feathers and cause people to leave (we're not particularly close friends outside the campaign).

What would you guys do?

RumpinRufus wrote:

That is goofy because Diehard does absolutely nothing on a summoned creature.

Summoning wrote:
A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower
Whether it has Diehard or not, by RAW it still disappears as soon as it hits 0 HP or lower. Poorly written feat.

Isn't this a case of specific beats general? I mean how does it make sense to give a useless feat to the summons? The author obviously didnt intend for it to be useless

Renegadeshepherd wrote:

5) half orc lunar oracle. Here comes the pain. An animal companion of equal Level and you getting 3 natural attacks is an damage output machine that few can even hope to match at this level. I'm not sure it's possible to put out more raw damage as this character can at level 3. Synthesist maybe?

So let me get this straight...

You pick Half-Orc to get an initial natural attack (toothy), but then in order to get two more natural attacks, you'd have to use Gift of Claw and Horn twice in the battle? What feats/animal feats/spells do you recommend?

Plenty of amazing ideas in this thread, will keep them for reference if nothing else. Will let you guys know what I decide. However I dont believe than scarred witchdoctor works on an alternate heritage human

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I'm playing a one-off session with no hope for longevity. Any help would be appreciated!


I just wanted to make sure that all of this applies (on top of the Diehard feat) to animals I cast with the celestial template via Summon good monster:

Rebuild Rules

Senses: The creature gains darkvision 60 ft.

Defensive Abilities: The creature gains damage reduction and energy resistance as noted on Table: Celestial Creature Defense.

SR: The creature gains spell resistance equal to its new CR +5

Special Attacks: The creature may smite evil 1/day as a swift action (it adds its Cha bonus to attack rolls, and a damage bonus equal to its HD against evil foes; smite persists until the target is dead or the celestial creature rests).

I just realized these elementals are from 3rd party sources which aren't allowed in my campaign, rendering the question completely moot.

Thanks. I just noticed that the psionic elemental is a 3rd party concoction so it's not allowed in my campaign but there's other creatures with telepathy that I can eventually summon

Question in the title. So I guess it can communicate with any creature that has a language. Would it work to communicate with animals and animal summons in the same vein as the Speak To Animals spell?

I'm a summoner interested in summoning the following creatures:

Negative Energy Elemental ntal-negative-energy-tohc/negative-energy-elemental-small-tohc

Positive Energy Elemental ntal-positive-energy-tohc/positive-energy-elemental-small-tohc

How can I communicate with this creature?

Finally I've settled on half-elf with a high UMD score so I can effectively use a Speak With Animals wand as soon as possible.

My campaign starts at level 1 and I'm wondering about this. Here's what's drawing me to each:

1) Human: extra feat and extra skill rank per level. That's pretty good and would be the top choice by default.

2) Half-elf: extra 1/4 evolution points per level. Pretty awesome since Master Summoners get gimped Eidolons.

3) Gnome: Normally I wouldn't ever consider this but since many of the best summons are beasts with no languages, Gnome's Speak with Animals spell like ability can really let me take control of these summons (which is what the Master Summoner is all about, make no mistake). Extra Gnome Magic will let me use Speak with Animals 4x a day which is as much as I'd need for a typical day. Also the Etymologist gnome trait lets me learn an additional language which is handy for Master Summoners.

I'm now leaning towards Gnome just because speak with animals is so powerful for a class that summons so many animals.

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Question is in the title. I'm talking about these fellows: -elemental-obsidian/obsidian-quasi-elemental-small -elemental-acid/acid-quasi-elemental-small -elemental-lightning/lightning-quasi-elemental-small

Ah I see, thanks

Oops! Anyway thanks, let me ask you something else. The attack modifier for the eagle's melee attack is +5 right? (Dex modifier and the +3 from the natural weapons)

Under Orthodox Banjoist’s Guide to the Summoner ( ) he says:

Eagle: Decent triple attack

Nothing in the monster description for eagle tells me it has a triple attack? /summoned-creature-viper

Never mind, lullaby is not just a burst around me, it has to be aimed in an area.

Still I like it if nothing else but for the flavor.

Wouldn't lullaby still be useful if I can prepare for a fight before hand? I mean I could concentrate for an hour then sing for the next couple of counters! Would rise my DC to 21!

We're not playing past level 1, so a lot of the things you'd normally wonder about aren't a factor here. Will consider Ear-Piercing Scream! The party is the above witch, a cleric and a rogue.

I'd have to drop the Accursed Hex feat but it may be worth it.

I guess with such a high DC it won't matter.

Oh awesome thanks a lot! Let me know if there's anything else I should do

For a one-off campaign. Got Lullaby through Two-World Magic trait.

Level 1 Witch
Neutral Evil
Hex: Slumber (DC: 17)

Witch's Familiar: Scorpion (+4 int)

Two-world Magic


Level 1: Cure Light Wounds x2/day
STR: 7
DEX: 16
CON: 16
INT: 18 + 2
WIS: 7
CHA: 7

Init: +9
Skills (+8 to all): Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Knowledge (History) (Int), Knowledge (Nature) (Int), Knowledge (Planes) and Spellcraft (int)

Accursed Hex (Hex twice the same creature/day)
Ability Focus (Slumber) (+2 DC to slumber)

Thanks for the advice! I wonder if there are other worthwhile bloodlines to consider. That ones pretty good though, to be sure.

I'm aware of these things and will be preparing accordingly, but thank you! I need some advice however.


I'm looking to build a Master Summoner and I'd like to make sure I have all the best stuff from the latest releases, the guide is out of date. I'm open to any suggestions to expand effectiveness or versatility, no matter how small. Here's what I have so far...

Race: Human or Half-elf (I'm not sure yet, could someone recommend arguments for either? I'm leaning Human for the extra feat)

15 point build
STR - 8
DEX - 14
CON - 12
INT - 10
WIS - 10
CHA - 16 (+2 racial bonus, +1 at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th)

Focused Mind

1st - Improved Initiative
1st - Extra Summons
2nd - Augmented Summoning (via Master Summoner)
3rd - Superior Summoning
5th - Summon Good Monster (or Summon Neutral Monster, any arguments for or against? I'll adjust alignment)
7th - Extra Summons
9th - Craft Wondrous Item
11th - Quicken Spell
13th - Extra Summons
15th - Extra Summons..?
17th -
19th -

Would Cosmopolitan be worth it in order for me to add extra languages to communicate with my summons? Thanks in advance for the help!

Mercurial wrote:

@Applied People

It's just you. That's why the eidolon remains the same at levels 1-3, then at levels 4-5, etc. if only progresses every two levels because it's half as effective.

This is a very old thread and I've tweaked the build a bit since then.

Somewhat necro bump: could you post your tweaked build?