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Both are epic. You can get the 3.5 stats from the d20 srd at the wizards site here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35


Jill and the Last Laugh show up again at their safehouse in Lords of Oblivion in Dungeon #111. The Striders play some importance in this encounter also. One of the leaders of the Last Laugh is at the meeting at Thifirane's house, but he doesn't show up in any other adventures. The other leaders are never really encountered. I'd suggest reading LoO and then decide how you want the Last Laugh to evolve.


Rodney Thompson wrote:
Regarding Secrets of the Soul Pillars/Lords of Oblivion, I have to disagree. I think that SotSP is the perfect lead-in, because it slowly unravels information to the party. I like the plot to an avalanche starting with Test of the Smoking Eye. The pebbles begin to roll down the hill in TotSE, then those pebbles knock a few rocks loose in SotSP, then when the revelations come in LoO it's a full-on avalanche, which slams into the party in Foundations of Flame.

Rereading my post, I think I made too general a statement here. I should have said the events probably won't work well for my group. Frankly, they're just not subtle enough to depend on them sneaking into Thifirane's house without alerting someone and then listening at the door for several minutes as she makes her speach. As presented in the adventures, the order of information reveal works well, and I would try to keep that order. I suspect how it is revealed may need a bit of a change for me though.

I'm keeping a very open mind about this though and will be looking through the various posts here on the board to see how others have handled various events and NPCs over the course of the campaign.

Fletch wrote:
Actually, I think I’d prefer it that way. In fact, I’m going to go the extra step and somehow show the party Vhalantru changing from elf form to beholder. I don’t know how yet, but I want to see their faces when they confront this effete elf and his head sprouts eyestalks and his body whithers away to reveal his true form. Ideally, they’d have confronted him in beholder form a couple times before then so they’ll recognize him then too. Since the oblivion doors seem nearly impenetrable, I may do away with them and not spoil the surprise with all the beholder symbology.

That would work for me. If you figure out a reasonable way for them to witness a transformation, do share.


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Interesting. I also just finished making some notes, mostly tracking subplots and NPC development. I'll start the PCs through Cauldron in about one or two months after the end of the current story arc we are doing, unless someone else in the group really wants to DM for a while.

I also like about half the adventure path, but it's the middle part I find most lacking, along with a finale that is more of a plateau, as Fletch said, than a peak. I'll post my own extremely long (sorry) comments as a reply to some of the ideas in Fletch's post. Feel free to comment.

Life's Bazaar - My biggest complaint is that the only entrance to a very large underground enclave is under the stairs in a locksmith's shop, and the entrance doesn't even appear to have been sealed. It's not a big deal to fix, but this was annoying to me. There is also the matter of the kidnap victims that were never found. I'll likely have a party with all good-aligned characters, including two paladins. I really can't see my group just letting them go with a shrug and an "oh well, we tried." I'll probably have some working as slaves at Bhal-Hamatugn. Others will be found in a side trek (unpublished) I have in mind along with info that the remainder are dead.

Flood Season - I liked this except for the wands. It's not finding the wands that is the problem, it's their use. Reading the spell description, I just don't see how these could possibly stop a lake from rising and flooding a town at all. And supposedly the lake rises and drains all in one night. Maybe, but even in a fantasy world this strains plausibility. I'm changing this to a custom staff of weather control. If it stops raining above Cauldron, there is no chance of flooding, and a staff is more cost-effective for this purpose than wands anyway.

Zenith Trajectory - No major complaints, but it would be nice to have some explanation of who built the pit entrance to the underdark and put the hydra there.

The Demonskar Legacy - After the tax riot, this one falls apart for me. It's the low point of the whole series. I don't like the secret society flavor of the Chisel. It's just too much like certain real-world groups I have little interest or patience for. Then there is the Lawful Stupid behavior of Alek (are we really supposed to believe he has been under the influence of Amaranth Elixir for three years or something?), and the massive railroad that is the final battle and resulting death of Alek, no matter PC actions. Going off to find an NPC who happens to turn out to be a mad prophet turns me off this one too because the PCs just did that in Zenith Trajectory. Also, Alek's final prophecy states that the PCs must not return to Cauldron but instead seek the sign of the smoking eye, but there is nothing that happens in the next adventure that is critical to saving Cauldron. I'll definitely use the tax riot. After that this one needs a major rewrite.

Test of the Smoking Eye - The first time I read it I didn't like it, but I've come around to this one some. Its lead-in isn't great (finishing the railroad started in Demonskar), and there is a bit more leading around than I would like (it is a test though), but I think this one has a lot of plot potential. There is also a great opportunity to gather information about planar connections of the Cagewrights and foreshadow events at the end of the series. I just need to figure out a way to get my PCs there and be sure they can get back to the prime...

Secrets of the Soul Pillars/Lords of Oblivion - These are good, but I think parts are in the wrong order. I think these would work better if information from the Cathedral of Wee Jas pointed the PCs to House Rhiavadi, then from House Rhiavadi to Karran-Kural, and a comment in Fetor's notes at Karran-Kural happens to identify Vhalantru as a beholder who has been given the information needed for a ritual that will significantly increase his personal power. Not the most original or dramatic reveal, perhaps, but good enough to set the PCs in motion. Reading the adventure, it seems kind of like the PCs aren't supposed to figure out V is a beholder until they actually encounter him below his manor. That doesn't really work for me.

Foundation of Flame/Thirteen Cages - These two would work well as a conclusion, except they aren't the conclusion... The evacuation looks to be exciting and challenging and a welcome change from room-to-room adventures.

Strike on Shatterhorn/Asylum - Anticlimax. Strike on Shatterhorn is just another dungeon crawl only with instant kill traps (the altar/egg, for example) and weird but powerful NPCs. Fletch has a good idea here. I'm tempted to reduce the number of Cagewrights and cut Strike out entirely and go right to Asylum (sans one Fiendish Smoking Eye Advanced Beholder...) if the players are still interested. Asylum I would run simply to have a chance to describe to my group that a very powerful undead skeletal figure with a large scythe is floating toward them, then drop a counter on the table that looks disturbingly similar to the Grim Reaper. That illustration of Dark Myrakul is just too cool. Yeah. I would like that.

Other general problems I have with the AP is the use of dragons as basically random encounters (especially Gotrrod and Hookface), but that isn't hard to change. There are a few continuity issues like returning to Cauldron after Test of the Smoking Eye and whether or not Hookface is male or female, but again these aren't too hard to deal with. I think a bit too much attention was spent on unnecessary symbolism (thirteen cages and thirteen Cagewrights, for example) and tangents that went nowhere (Celeste, the Chisel, the Ebon Triad) at the expense of continuity and playability. The ending just seems to drag on forever, but there is actually little time once Secrets of the Soul Pillars begins for item creation, except a few days for scrolls or maybe a wand or two. I would like a few more natural breaks in the story for downtime. The other problem involves the creation of soulcages. We are told that they are artifact-level power, but there don't seem to be enough spellcasters capable of casting high level spells to craft them. For example, the Ebon Triad is supposed to have made one, but the highest level cleric was Tarkilar, at 7th before his transformation. I don't really associate 7th level with artifact-wielding power. It's not a big deal, but it's just something else I need to come up with an explanation for that could have been handled in the adventures better. There were also a bit too many half-trolls, half-fiends, half-dragons, half-etc. for my personal taste.

I like the overall story, and I like the NPCs evolving over the course of the campaign, but it could have been done better. Meerthan was always at the Drunken Morkoth. You would think after a little while he would get a small shop if he wanted to really carry out the merchant disguise. The Pelor and Kord clerics don't seem to gain levels, but Jenya gains about 10 levels by casting divinations, calling meetings, and telling the PCs where to go...

For a variety of reasons I will be running this in the Realms in the mountains northeast of Neverwinter rather than a jungle. Tongueater will be changed to a wereboar, and dinosaurs will not be present. Kelemvor seems like a too obvious choice with which to replace Wee Jas. I'm thinking of having a Church to Kelemvor, but the Cagewrights have instead corrupted a church of Gond or Oghma. Both deities allow any clerical alignment, and the obsessions of the Cagewrights with knowledge, lore, and crafting powerful items works well with the deity's interests, at least at first. So the guys that deal with death really aren't the bad guys, but the ones who have been consumed by the darker side of knowledge are. It would be a little different twist. I'm still undecided about this though. I'm also thinking of having the Ebon Triad unrelated to the Cagewrights and reducing the number of thugs/alleybashers. (I counted over 50 names... seems like a bit much for a fringe group.) Triel is a Cyrist who simply has a vendetta against Cauldron.

The volcano itself is extinct, and that is why a city was built on it and nobody really worrys about an eruption. Divination could reveal this. Cagewright magic is what eventually wakes the volcano again. And since the Realms is riddled with Portals, what makes creating this one so much trouble? I'm going to emphasize the prison nature of Carceri (adding it to the Realms cosmology) by making any portals created that lead there quickly fail. The Cagewrights have found a way that they believe a large and permanent portal can be created. Cagewrights will likely honor Bane, Malar, Talona, and Loviatar, but still have this obsession with freeing Adimarchus. I'm still not sure how the planar factions would all fit together though. Right now I'm thinking that Bane, being the god of tyranny, would go along with plans to create a portal to the prison plane, and freeing Adimarchus would leave a very powerful demon lord in Bane's debt, so Bane extends his own influence on the prime through the Cagewrights and the Abyss through Adimarchus and Occipitus.


What Greg said. Also, if you really want to be exact, it looks like his skills were calculated with Profession being used as a fighter class skill, which it isn't, unless there is an errata I missed. Skill points also weren't spent to pick up the Giant language. (They are his favored enemy, but AFAIK, you don't automatically know the language of your favored enemies.) Change to 9.5 ranks in Profession (prospector) and things work out, or redistribute as you like. Not really a game breaker, that one, but you might as well be precise if you are statting him out as an ally.


Part of your problems are coming from the way you are figuring your party level. By the way you seem to be suggesting, a party of 8 7th-level characters would be equivalent to a standard 14th level party (8x7/4=14), or add a few more characters and they are ready for epic challenges (12x7/4=21). It doesn't scale like that at all.

Even if you have 6 7th-level characters, your average party level is still 7, and that is what you use to determine experience point awards. From the DMG, a party with an average level of 7 that overcomes a CR 7 creature earns 2100 experience points. Then divide the points evenly, or 350Xp each for a party of 6, compared to 525 for the stardard party of 4. If you treated your 6-person party as a 10th-level party, they get only 1000Xp, or 167Xp each. That's a huge difference.

You will still need to increase challenges slightly to keep pace with the experience awarded to a standard party of four, but the article should be helpful for that.


I'm curious. Is Eli's weird little familiar from Maure Castle going to become some sort of mascot or something like that for the magazine? Rel has made several appearances since issue #112 (see pg 95 in #117 for example) and is kinda cute in a creepy, evil, one-eyed sort of way, so I was just wondering about any future plans for the little guy.