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DarkosFenix,

It really is frustrating to fail spell learning rolls. You have my sympathies.

My solution to this was to take the Assurance feat for Arcana so that I could just pay my gold and learn my spells. The good news for me though is that as a person who was primarily a spellcaster, I found there was less big stuff that that I needed to buy and so devoting a little gold here and there to learn spells did not break my bank.

I hope that this helps a little.

Hmm

Thanks for the idea. i was thinking about it. But taking my main character as an example for me, I intend on buying a rune for my robes and free a higher spell slot. but the rune is quite expansive. I already used almost all of my gold in the potency rune and my goal is to buy the resilient rune later on.

Watery Soup wrote:

Donald wrote:

Read through this.

Is that updated and comprehensive? I could have sworn that I read a discussion where it was agreed clerics were different from other spellcasters because only clerics specified CRB. (It was used as evidence that it was a typo on the cleric.)

I don't know the discussion you're talking about, but there are 3 classes with language specifying that their free spells are from the CRB: Cleric, Druid and Wizard. Of those, wizard is the outlier, as the class that's selecting a set number of spells like the other casters who don't have any language specifying a book, but I don't see how you would use those three to think cleric was the exception.

As a minor clarification for the original poster, this rule was written into 3 classes, it is not a society rule for all prepared casters. Witch is not affected, as the witch spellcasting and familiar features do not include that restriction.

My point for Society is because in Society we HAVE to follow the rules. That's my concern, because outside of any Society game, that's easly solved by the GM. And right now, I mostly play Society games. That's why it is a huge problem for me as someone whos main class is wizard

Honestly, as annoying as this is, it should just be a check to acquire the spell, and sooner or later you will likely succeed (some also champion assurance and the magical shorthand feat) and if you want to learn more spells (as wizards tend to like to do) the cost for that is pretty minor.

Is this a rule I like? Not really, but it should not totally ruin org play for you, and fortunately a fair number of classes are not really affected by this.

That said if this ruins org play for you, your feelings are absolutely valid, and I can only suggest ways to mitigate or avoid the issue.

It totally ruins org play for me, because we are supposed to play RAW and I'm fine with it as long as it is fair. This means that if I want to make a different Witch or Wizard (my main classes) I must use my gold for this. And as I said in a different comment of mine. If I want 6 cantrips/1st level spells froma different book to make a different blaster than I already have, at first level I have to spend almost all my gold just to have a CHANCE to have it (it doesn't matter if it's "only" ~35% chance of failure, it can still happen).

DarkosFenix wrote:

I ran into this issue...

Let me start by saying you shouldn't cheat. Period.

Given that you are going to find VERY few GMs who audit characters and even fewer who are going to spend any focus on this particular issue. For the majority of us, all we care about is, do you have legal access to the spell in question? As long as it is standard access (ie the book is sanctioned) and common accessibility (the vast majority of spells are), you are good to add it to your spellbook/repertoire. It's just not my job as a table GM, I don't have the time, nor the interest to be the rules police.

That being said, be prepared that there are a few hard-core paladins out there that will hold you to task for every aspect of your character build and want to see detailed notes up to and including gold expenditures, boon purchases, spell acquisition, etc. Life is too short to be troubled by this, but if its a problem for you, just have alternative choices for those rare occurrences that you can quickly swap in/out, or move to a different table where the GM isn't as rigidly obsessed with org play doctrine. If the GM in question is a local GM from your lodge, its more problematic and you might consider playing online where there is a very expansive and welcoming community.

I agree 100% with you and I of course don't want to cheat and that's why I'm having this issue. RAW it seems I don't have access to those spells unless I pay for it. And I'm facing a situation that more than one GM are saying I'm not allowed to have those spells unless I paied for the common spells I want.

This mean that at first level, if I pay and have success in learning them, i'd have to use 12gp for the spells I want. And thats assuming I'd only have success, because at level 1 I have an Arcana of +7, for a DC of 15 I need an 8 or more (~35% chance of failure for a 1st lvl or cantrip).

I ran into this issue this week and it might be the reason for me to stop playing PFS.
With secrets of magic, we now have class archetypes, new spells, etc. I want to make an Arcanist with the Flexible Spell Preparation Archetype. My intention is for him to be a blaster. However, if I'm only able to get common spells from the corerule book, he will basically have the very same spells as other wizard I have that is also a blaster.
That wont happen unless I use spells from the Secrets of Magic. But, apperently, to do so I need to use my gold to learn those spells. By the Society rules, "Spells from outside the Core Rulebook must be learned using the learn a spell activity before they can be used by prepared casters, even by clerics and druids." (under the spells section).
And all I want is to use the common spells from SoM. This puts me in a situation where I have to choose between just making mechanically the same character OR I use my gold to learn the spells I want (which I could always fail) and hamper my progression to the items I would like to buy for my character.
So, what I'd like to find here is where there is a definitive answer for access to theses common spells from different books aside the Core Rulebook.

-Can I start my character with common spells from other books other than the CRB?
-When I gain new spells as I level up, can thos be from other books too?

This is a very important thing to me, because I primary play with casters and if I have to alwyas spend my gold to get access to common spells from other books I won't play PFS ever again after I GM the scenarious and quest I already bought and didn't GM yet.
And I WON'T play a game that I have to use common items/spells/etc from other books if I have to always use my gold instead of equiping my character. Because if that's the case, in the end every class will always be the same thing because the access are extremely limited.
Pathfinder has always meant to me flexibility and options for my characters and if I can't have this in a PFS game with common items, I won't waste my time with it. There would be no point if I can't have fun and have diversity in the options I can have.

If anyone has the answer for those questions with an official paizo sourcer, I'd appreciate a lot. This way I could share it with others that might be feeling the same as me and with the GMs when I play a PFS

1) Correct.

2) Yes, only one increase.

3) You can't go higher than Trained in a skill at character creation. Also, as far as we know, gaining Assurance doesn't make you trained. You probably can get the effect of the trained proficiency (take a reult of 10 instaed of rolling). I don't think think this has been made clear by the developers so far.

4) No, trained is the maximum you can get at creation.

5) Feats and sometime class features.

6) Yes, a sorcerer has 3 spells per day at level 1. Two from his spellcasting class feature and one from his bolldline. I'm not sure why it's written that way. Might have something to do with the sorcerer multiclass. Maybe spending a multiclass feat to get a bloodline will also increase your spell slots or something like that. Just guessing,though.

Thank you very much!

Now I get it. I find Assurance kinda odd now, I don't see any advantage in taking for a non Rongue class since you don't add any bonus, penalty or modifier since every skill will get better as you level up. Eventually the level will surpess the -2 of being untrained in a skill and will also be better to simply roll as if you roll a 10 or more (there is a 50% to take more than a 10), plus the bonus of said skill will be higher than 10 pretty easily. And I don't think it's worth taking it even to a Rogue, that get a skill increase at every level, I don't find it worth to sacrifice a skill feat for it.

Can someone explain to me the skill progression on the 2nd Edition Playtest?

I'm very confused.

1) Is the skill increase just to go from T to E, E to M and M to L or train in a new skill?

2) How do I know how many skill increases I get at the levels I get a skill increase? Or is it just one?

3) I did a gnome sorcerer (Imperial), his background is scholar, I chose his assurance feat to be arcana. This means he's trained in arcana. So with the skill points we get when creating a character, if I use one in arcana, does that means it goes from Trained to Expert?

4) If I want, when creating a character, I can put more than one skill point in a single skill and me more than trained?

5) How do I increase the proficiency with Perception or Saving Throws? Just feats?

6) For the gnome I mentioned. At level 1, a sorcerer has 2 level 1 spells per day, but on the table 3-20 there's this: "* In addition to the spell slots shown in this table, your bloodline
gives you a bonus spell slot of each level you can cast." So my gnome actually has 3 spells per day or this additional spell is only granted if specified somewhere? If every bloodline would have 3 spells per day at level 1, why not simple say a sorcere has 3 1st level spells per day?

Thanks in advance

#OutDevir #ForaDevir
As a Brazilian, I totally agree with everyone here. It's been around 3 years since I started to actually play RPGs (Because of Pathfinder, I randomly found the book in a book store and that sparkled what I need to start to actualy play tabletop RPGs) and in this 3 years I HAVE NEVER SEEN A SINGLE COPY OF PATHFINDER IN PT-BR!!! NEVER EVER!!!! Not only that, there's what everyone said here, in the past 10 years the low quality and lack of products by Devir is not even questionable as it is pretty clear that it's low quality and there's basically nothing for us here
I think that the best choices would be New Order Editora, Redbox and Retropunk
Seriously, PLEASE DO NOT SELL THE RIGHTS TO DEVIR PUBLISH PATHFINDER HERE, I DO ACTUALY WANT TO HAVE SOMETHING, ANYTHING FROM PATHFINDER, THAT WE DO NOT CURRENTLY HAVE BECAUSE DEVIR DOES NOT WANT TO PUBLISH ANYTHING