Danthulhu's page

I see you tweaked bravery a bit, it's a good thought.
A series of feats I recommend looking at are the Cayden Cailean feats that expand what bravery can do.

Another thing I'm thinking is: Why not add battle hardened bonuses to Perception? Or any number of thematic skills(Climb, Swim, Survival, etc.)?

Okay, so I've put on my thinking cap and have expanded a bit on my original ideas in this thread.

For those who want the short version, this is a a project I'm working on. My goal is to give some attention to the school of necromancy. To explore some of the depth the school offers and possibly define some of this depth for the sake of interest and future projects.

I would Love imput and discussion.

Glossary:
The Cycle: The cycle of Life and Death, (positive and negative energies,) that allows existence to function.

Necromantic Sub-Schools

Bioturgy: In studying the processes of life and death Necromancy has learned much of biology. The building blocks of the biological form: skin, hair muscle, fat, nerves, bones, and blood. Unlike Transmutation, the subschool of Bioturgy can only manipulate living bodies, not transform it.

Curses: Necromancy is the study of life and death, somewhere between the two are a multitude of decrepitudes and inflictions that can happen to a person. These are what make up the subschool of Curses, from impeding and harassment to outright disabling and crippling.

Life: Arguably the core of most necromantic workings outside of study of Undeath, the sub-school of life focuses on the manipulation of positive energy and negative energy within an environment. Contrary to stereotype this school contains the ability to heal as well as harm. Though Necromancers have yet to develop spells on par with the healing abilities of most non-arcane casters, they have found their own solutions.

Psychopompy: The most esoteric subschool, Psychopompy is the study of the Soul and it’s role in life and death. The Necromancer studies souls of the living and dead, is able to call upon souls that are not yet past the boneyard, and is able to interact with spiritual entities that were formerly living(petitioners or ghosts). These Necromancers often study haunts to understand how souls without bodies are able to create connections to the material plane.

Undeath: While the sub-schools of Biomancy and Life work within the natural limitations of the Cycle, undeath is the study of magic moving beyond those limitations. Undeath is the subversion, perversion, and reversal of the cycle of life and death. Though maligned due to its intimate relationship with the Undead, it’s study does not necessarily end at the creation of life-hating malicious entities.

New Stuff
So, I've done a small survey of Necromancy spells from Paizo's core books, and have noticed that there seems to be a few holes here and there, either a couple spells or very inneffective spells.
In the necromancy spell school I noticed a lack of:
-Anti-Undead Spells
-Blood Manipulation
-Communication with the Dead/Dying
-Beneficial biological manipulation
-HP recovery spells
-Positive energy Damage
-Non-Evil curse spells
Anything I miss?

I always kind of thought necromancy should also have things about life to maybe not healing spells directly or at higher levels. but they should have bring back to life spells but at higher levels than clerics.

Because you can't really study death with out also studying life.

That's my motivation for the "life" school. I get that Divine casters have a (justified) right to healing, but I'm trying to explore the idea that the Healing subschool is different from Life.

My thinking:

Healing: Positive energy applied directly for the purposes of belevolent healing.
(The rationale being that its conjuration because you are creating the healing energy by transfering this power from the gods/life force of nature/positive energy plane/whatever.)

Life:The manipulations of positive or negative energies to create specific effects.
(The rationale being that the necromancer can manipulate these energies with more finesse than either an Evoker or a Conjurer, but perhaps not with the specificity or precision of a Healing spell.)

Healing spells use a 1d8(as of 1st ed)
Life Spells usually use a 1d6.

A healing spell won't accidentally cause cancer, a Life spell might drain the positive energy out of someone to heal someone else.

Healing is a non-Zero Sum equation, Life is zero sum.

A necromancer can always take some background negative energy from the environment, if entropy exists there will always be something to work from. Positive energy works the same way, but the issue is "how much".

Then there's another idea: Positive energy damage.
What happens when a target's hp has been dropped with positive energy?
I have ideas: Their life blinks out as the positive energy deliberately breaks their soul, they explode with an aura of light energy as their physical form cannot contain that much, or creepier yet: They just shut down as their bodies are overwhelmed with energy making positive energy damage on living creatures a kind of non-lethal damage?

Danthulhu wrote:

StephJZ wrote:

Blood Magic would seem to be a logical sub school of necromancy as well.

Not to be a git, but can you describe "Blood Magic"?

I'm asking because I considered it, but pondered how much it would fit in the ven diagram of the other schools.

Diablo Necromancer blood magic I think would fall under "biomancy" or "curses".
A lot of the "blood magic" that relates to sympathetic magic already shows up in Divination.
And blood sacrifice kinda shows up in the Life, Psychopompy, and Undeath schools.

If you have a different take I would love to hear it!

The kind of blood magic I'm thinking of would be more the type that directly manipulates hit points or steals life, or uses life as a resource in a clever way. Vampiric Touch would be a simple example of a classic, core spell that fits the concept. I sometimes find myself wishing there were more spells that expanded on what Vampiric Touch does in different directions or plays with the concept of stealing and sharing hit points a little more.

Blood based rituals is territory that could go in a variety of possible directions as well.

I've mostly been underwhelmed by what D&D has typically presented as a "blood mage" prestige or sub class, which mostly seem to come down to "burn your own health for extra spell power" from what I've seen.

nods

I get the underwhelmingness, I think it's because of the Nigromancy=Necromancy thing I mentioned. They don't want to give too many options for evil players, but they don't want to give spell options that will only interest certain players.

Blood Magic would seem to be a logical sub school of necromancy as well.

Not to be a git, but can you describe "Blood Magic"?

I'm asking because I considered it, but pondered how much it would fit in the ven diagram of the other schools.

Diablo Necromancer blood magic I think would fall under "biomancy" or "curses".
A lot of the "blood magic" that relates to sympathetic magic already shows up in Divination.
And blood sacrifice kinda shows up in the Life, Psychopompy, and Undeath schools.

If you have a different take I would love to hear it!

Hey all,

I got it in my head to make some new necromancy spells but despite my drafts I'm coming across a little difficulty trying to keep things necromantic and organized.

I've got two things that are bugging me,

1) Necromancy = Nigromancy (or for those less pretentious, Death Magic=Black Magic)
That Necromancy primarily exists as a kind-of dumping ground for the more creepy and evil effects because of this idea. Not that I think it's innapropriate but having a game about heroic characters who shouldn't really use a chunk of the spells is a bit odd.

2) Necromancy is kind-of broad by definition.
Unlike many other schools that have subschools(Illusion, Enchantment) or a very clear purpose(Evocation, Transmutation) Necromancy has only Two Sentences dedicated to its definition in the core book.

"Necromancy spells manipulate the power of death, unlife,
and the life force. Spells involving undead creatures make
up a large part of this school." (PHB p.211)

Now I'm not trying to just open up the whole "good necromancer" flame war, but I am realizing that Necromancy has a lot of ground it can cover within that definition that isn't always in focus.

My Exercise was to write up "subschools" for Necromancy, to represent common uses and ideas within the Spell school. I'm basing these schools off of the definition and common usages of spells with
Necromancy spells.

Biomancy: When it manipulates biological matter without transforming it into something else. (This is when Necromancy is Pseudo-Transmutation, but also could represent some of the weirder ways that necromancers affect anatomy, plagues, or various other inflictions.)

Curses: This is in the general category of Debuffs. (Given that Necromancy especially focuses on this category I think it's worth putting under this umbrella.)

Life: When the spell is manipulating positive and negative energies. (Ironically both healing and damaging spells fit in this category, however rather than conjuration, the Necromancer isn't just "transfering energy from somewhere else" as per divine healing, they are manipulating the more local energies.)

Psychopompy: When the spell is interacting with the Soul of a creature.(Necromancer means "diviner of the dead" I find it odd that they don't have many spells that play with this. Especially as ghosts are as annoying as corporal undead.)

Undeath: when necromancy is used to reanimate the dead or subvert the natural cycle of life and death. (This is all the usual stereotypical stuff of making undead. However, this isn't just making undead. Arguably spells like "Spectral hand" or "False Life" fall into this because the necromancer is subverting the natural cycle.

These sub schools aren't supposed to cover *everything* but I think it does help me organize my thoughts into thinking what Necromancy contains beyond two sentences.

Thoughts, Opinions?

*Hi Five*
I love the concept!

The lack of energy/damage resistance to force is the main draw. For example, fire immunity can really screw over a specialized pyrokineticist.

It also does full damage against incorporeal creatures, though that works out to be the same amount of damage as other composite energy blasts would deal after being halved.

Overall it is considered a weak composite blast.

So the benefit of doubling up with Expanded Element (Aether) isn't really that much of a benefit. Okay, I thought it was odd, I suppose I just needed someone else to say it. Thanks.

I'm sure this has turned up somewhere but my google-fu is weak.

I'm reading the text for the composite infusion in Occult Adventures and I really don't get it.

So, rather than upgrading your blast to doing composite blast damage (basicly 1d6 per level and change) your upgrade is that it's now a touch attack with marginally less damage?

Can someone explain to me the advantage in taking this? Because it seems like you're paying 2 burn to turn a simple blast with damage per die into a touch attack with a modifier.