Cronocke's page

Something has changed since 3.5. The line was present in 3.5, stating that fighters had to meet requirements. The line is gone now. It is left out. It is very much left out. The line was in 3.5, it's not there now. That is confusing, and unclear, no matter how hard you try to deny that.

Yes, there is a general rule... for non-bonus feats... but there is precedent for assuming that the general rule is to apply (since certain classes say it doesn't), and precedent for assuming it's not (since certain classes say it does).

So, yes, the logical thing is to assume that the general rule applies.

But the logical thing is to also assume that the general rule does not apply.

Either is within the scope of the rules right now, because both are specifically called to attention at other points and in other books.

But, fine. You're right, Bob, I should have just sent an e-mail. My fault for doing this instead. Shows what being tired does, I guess.

They are only unclear if you completely forget the following:

1. Follow the rules.
2. The rules state meet the prerequisites.
3. Unless you have something telling you to ignore rule 2, obey it.

What you have is an omission but without something specifically telling you to disregard rule 2 you still follow it since you follow the rules and the rules say meet the prerequisite.

It isn't even FAQ worthy.

I'm sorry, but no. This isn't satisfying to me. For one, you don't appear to be a Paizo rep or employee. And for another, you're just saying the same thing for the third time as if somehow, this time, it will be different.

The rules are unclear because they have omissions. Omissions make things unclear. If you cannot understand this, I'm sorry, but there's really nothing else I can say.

Oh, wait, I can say the same thing a third time, I guess.

Leaving something out of the rules makes it difficult to understand the intention of the rules that have been left out.

There, did that help?

Every case of bonus feats that don't require you to meet prerequisites state as much -- meeting prerequisites must be done unless stated otherwise.

So in the case for the ones that do not specify, the general feat rules fall into place.

Look, all I'm saying is, as it stands, the rules are confusing.

Either you're right, and Fighters still have to meet prerequisites... and they either forgot to put that in there, or added it to other classes like Cavalier... for some reason...

... or you're wrong, and Fighters do NOT have to meet prerequisites... and they forgot to put THAT in there, but left it in the rules for the Monk and Ranger... for some reason.

One way or another, the rules are unclear, and there's room for someone to give me a headache. I don't want to have a headache, so I want Paizo to give me their ruling. Please.

Actually this works the other way -- if it doesn't specifically state they don't have to meet the prerequisites then they do.

Everyone with bonus feats that gets to skip the prerequisites has that fact specifically stated in the write up for the bonus feats.

Except, no, that's not true. The Cavalier's writeup has the text:

At 6th level, and at every six levels thereafter, a cavalier gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement. These bonus feats must be selected from those listed as combat feats. The cavalier must meet the prerequisites of these bonus feats.

Which would imply the opposite - that if you do NOT have the line about meeting the prerequisites in the text for bonus feats, then you do NOT have to meet them.

Mind you, I'm not weighing in either way on this - I just want the rules clarified by a Paizo representative, so as to avoid any rules lawyering nonsense in the future.

So, I was reading through the Core Rulebook again, and something I never noticed before caught my attention.

In the Fighter rules, a Fighter is described as being able to take combat feats as bonus feats at 1st level, and every even level after that. The rules don't state, however, that the fighter still has to meet the prerequisites for those feats.

Looking at the rules for combat feats doesn't make this any clearer. There, it's stated that while Fighters can take the feats as bonus feats, other classes can take them as well, provided they meet the prerequisites. Again, however, there's no mention of Fighters having to meet them.

So, what's the official ruling on this? Do Fighters still have to meet a bonus feat's prerequisites as in 3.5, or was the removal of that line from the Fighter's bonus feat rules deliberate?