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Thank you all for the replies, and great feedback.

I get the where the concern for damage is coming from, as spell damage is based on caster level not class level. That is to say a Fireball does 1D6 per caster level to a maximum of 10D6, it has nothing to do with class level at that point. So IF a character went Wizard 5 / Fighter 5 they could cast Fireball once per day, doing 10D6 damage.

Now there are dice caps per spell level, a first level spell is capped at 5 dice, and so on. So a single dip into a caster class is going to net a max 5 dice spell which isn’t much to be worried about.

Sacred Geometry is a bust anyway, it has already been proven mathematically the feat is rigged.
I don’t have the link but someone wrote a lovely post about how if you have 14+ ranks in it they have a formula to make it work every single time with any level spell. It’s a fun idea but personally I don’t allow it in my games, that’s just me, then again this rule would just be for my games so I don’t see a problem there. Also I don’t want this to turn into a debate about Sacred Geometry.

Mostly what I see here are tradeoffs for X amount of levels to access X amount of spells that will actually be useful at your current level. That is what I want to see, I want to see players make use of the spells they put levels in for at any level. I think it opens a lot of doors for character builds, concepts and ideas that otherwise wouldn’t be worthwhile. They are possible but not worthwhile because the caster level of the character suffers too much over too many levels dipped.

Going to need an example about the HD-3 CL I don’t see it off the top of my head.

Out of all of the comments so far, I haven’t see anything that I would consider to be game breaking. Sure a Fighter can dip 2 levels into Magus for Spell Combat/Strike and add a 5D6 shocking grasp to his full attack action with a single one handed weapon. But he gives up using a 2H weapon, he gives up all the extra attacks from TWF, and he gives up Armor and Weapon Mastery. These are trades any character makes as levels are selected, and I’m ok with that.

I will continue to check in with this post moving forward but I’ve gotten my answer, I’m going to give it a go in my games. I’m not sure if anyone will even take advantage of it, but if any of my current or future players does I’ll report the success or failure of my home rule here.

Also I continue to keep my challenge open here, if you can build a character that is game breaking using my home brew rule here about caster level please post it. I would like to see what people come up with, if their caster level wasn’t limited by class level.

Caster level is tied to character level not class level, moving forward here.

I think I covered all the points brought up thus far, if I didn’t feel free to let me know.

If a rogue multi-classes they known they will lose some sneak attack, just the same a sorcerer that multi-classes will lose some of their bloodline powers.

What would make a Magus 2/Fighter 18 stronger than a Fighter 20?

@Wraithstrike
Is there actually a way to do that though?

First off thank you for the replies.

Magical Knack works for 2 levels which is nice for a dip but not much more.
The Sorcerer/Barbarian was just a random caster/melee example.

I read your post, that is pretty funny both posts were made in such a short time frame.

I am missing how a level 1 Wizard then on going Fighter is going to be so powerful?
Please explain that to me if you can.

At first level you’re spells per day are
Zero: 3 per day
First: 1 per day

So yes as a level one Wizard you could over time learn every single first level spell in the game and if you were say a level 1 Wizard / 14 Fighter that would make you caster level 15. But you only have access to level 1 spells, which still take a standard action to cast, and aren’t all that powerful at level 15. You would still only have one first level spell per day maybe two if you had a high Int which doesn’t do much otherwise for a primary Fighter.

My idea is to increase the caster level based on HD not Class level, but that doesn’t affect their spells per day, spells known, or other class abilities.

Another example would be a Wizard/Sorcerer combo:

Level 5 Wizard Spells:
Zero: 4 per day
First: 3 per day
Second: 2 per day
Third: 1 per day

Level 5 Sorcerer Spells:
Zero: - per day [6 known]
First: 6 per day [4 known]
Second: 4 per day [2 known]

Now this character would be Wizard 5 / Sorcerer 5 with a caster level of 10.
They would have two separate spell lists one for Wizard and one for Sorcerer.

As for the Spheres of Power idea, that’s interesting and could work. That paired with knack could get you up to 4 levels of a melee class without a problem. I like the idea of treating HD as caster levels over class levels because it gives casters the same freedom to swap out classes as non-casters without that huge limitation.

Hope for more feedback and ideas, so far I’ve yet to see anything that discourages me from making this a house rule. If anyone has an example of how a character might abuse this house rule to make a game breaking character please let me know how.

Hello,

Straight to the point, I might home rule that caster level is tied to your hit dice and not your class. I am bothered by the fact that non-casters can multi-class and prestige all over the place, but casters are afraid to most of the time because their caster level will suffer. My thought is simple, your caster level is based on your hit dice instead of your class level, because it is “caster” not “class” and as you advance as a character no matter what your class, you are a spell caster if you cast spells. This will not affect spells per day, spells know or anything else tied to the class.

My example:
Sorcerer level 4
Spells Known 6/3/1
Spells Per Day 6/3
• The sorcerer wants to rage, just because, so he takes:
Barbarian level 4
• Yay he can rage now, he wants to continue casting spells as a sorcerer so he jumps back

At this point normally he would be caster level 4 which puts him at a major loss in power.
My rule would mean his caster level is 8, he still casts 6/3 with 6/3/1 known.
Any familiar or bloodline powers do not advance or progress as they are tied to the Sorcerer class level.

The only reason I won’t do this is if someone here can point out to me any major game mechanics that would be broken or if there are any major loop holes that would rip the fabric of a game apart by creating a crazy over powered player. Personally I can’t think of anything like that.

Please note from a point of politeness:

Long time player, long time GM, I know the system and am asking for a different point of view, not a crash course on Pathfinder mechanics.

My example is just an example please don’t tell me to play a Bloodrager.

This is not for a specific player, myself, or NPC, I simply thought about the rules today and said “hmmm that seems kinda lame” and thought to potentially change it.

@Voodoo: That's the point though that these people who focus on raising their knowledge should gain the benefits of it. I see no reason why a wizard wouldn't out right be the most knowledgeable person in a group (aside from maybe a bard). It seems like its a rule work around "Well INT is their primary stat so to balance that we will give them a lower base skill count." I don't think they should be limited just because their primary attribute just happens to be the one linked to skills.

@Godlen: Any higher level character is going to own any primary skills they have invested their points into. The idea is to open up a wider range of skills for that character so they can be more involved in the game.

Lets say your playing an Elf Paladin with +1 Int. You get 3 skill points at level 1 and 3 skill points every level. Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge Nobility and Religion, Profession, Ride and Sense motive. Nine skills and 3 points to spend every level.

So at level 10 you could have 3 rank in all 9 skills.
Putting you roughly on par with a level 2 who has the same skill as you are about to roll. Level 10 paladin sense motive vs level 2 rogue bluff... picking up that bluff shouldn't be that hard for a level 10 paladin.

Another option would be rank 10 in 3 skills. Well he can tell you about God, Ride like you wouldn't believe and can Sense Motives of people before they know what they are doing... but please don't ask him to tend to his animal, heal anyone, speak of his noble families name, repair his armor, give a sermon or mediate for anyone.

Honestly I picked +6 because in most cases it will allow each of the classes to select a wider range of skills imagine having a paladin that knows how Religion, Nobility AND can Ride at level capacity?!!? To boot they might have a few ranks in heal and diplomacy, lol, the point isn't to over power any one class but to give them the tools needed to jump into the game more. Now the paladin can jump into negotiations with the rogue who is rolling diplomacy to give a new and lawful perspective on the situation.

Too often it seems to me each person in a group will have their lil nich that they are really good at. When ever that skill is needed they will step up and own it but everyone else just sits back and waits for their turn to role their one really good skill or two.

I've personally seen nothing game breaking about giving +6 instead of in most cases a +2. All I have seen is people in the group stepping up and doing more in game then they did before.

I would consider some things as far as this item goes. It is taking a magical picture of what ever you see through the frame and copies it exactly. What affect would it have if placed over a document to be used as a forgery? You could it "copy and paste" valued paintings or important kingdom documents with 100% accuracy? How do you tell the difference between the fake and the real? Perception check or sv. illusion? Also does the magic fade or do the copied images last forever? If the effect gained is an illusion, could another illusion spell be cast on the "photo" to edit it like photo-shop? What happens if a wizard uses it to take a photo of his spell book? Could an illusion photo be used to scry? I don't want to over complicate things, it is a great item but these are questions that might get brought up in game. Answers before hand keep the game from slowing down later. Personally I would allow these items in my game but I would have different versions of them for different illusion spells used to make them and caster levels required for those spells. Also I would make them contraband in cities, the possibility for misuse is quite high for an item like this.

Possible names:
I liked the ones above "Memory Frame" or "Instant Artist" I would also consider something used on the street along the black market a slang name like "Forger's Friend" or "Paper Maker".

I dislike what you are saying here. To me this seems like a rule made by a rogue for a rogue, to make playing a rogue in combat easier. Perception is not just what you perceive, the idea is that you are actively focused on finding or perceiving something. This is to say that we all see whats going on around us but perception is REALLY looking into the details. Yes you see the book shelf across the room, perception check to read all of the book titles from across the room. This is why you don't have to make a perception check to see the troll attacking you... but you do have to make a perception check against the rogue who is shooting at you from the dark ally behind that crate. To me at least this seems like a way for a rogue to make her stealth check with an advantage then move away from that bonus and keep the bonus until the end of her next turn. The moment you move away from your bonus to stealth you should lose that bonus to stealth not keep it for the remainder of your turn. That's just my thought.

Short:
All character classes with less than 6+INT, gain 6+INT for initial skill points.
Each player selects one skill that is tied to their character story, this skill must be raised every level. If a non class skill is selected it becomes a class skill.

Long:
I thought I would throw this out there just to see what kinda feed back I would get. In my own personal games I think that the skill point distribution is quite unfair for some of the classes and makes little sense. To say a fighter is unskilled is an insult. I served in the United States Marine Corps and I can assure you that "fighters" "warriors" and anyone else that wants to survive in the battle field has just as many "skills" as lawyers or doctors, they are just different types of skills. To that end I added a home brew rule to character creation in MY games. All character classes raise their initial skill point count to 6+INT if it is below 6. In addition to that each player may select one skill that becomes a class skill (if it isn't already), this skill must be tied into their character story and must be raised every level. The idea is that each player brings to the table a different set of skills, not that one player is more skilled than another. I was told right off the bat that "Wizards would gain a huge advantage over everyone else as their primary stat is INT." I have found no proof in that statement what so ever, in most cases it allows wizards to fill in more knowledge skills as every knowledge in the game is a class skill.

I have had no problems with balance. In fact balancing the skill values for all the classes allows many characters that would sit in the background for part of an adventure to step up and get involved.

I would not suggest changing a currently running game but I would be pleased if anyone out there would take this idea and try it for yourselves on a new game you might be planing.