Chromnos's page

Fantastic! I really like this mojo for the setting. So I'm glad you're considering it as an option, Bondsman. The notion of vindicating Savith, of serving as her agent in the mortal world, and of Savith's influence stretching out again beyond the realm of the dead just sparks with campaign story sweetness!

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Grindy rules stuff...

I've never played a holy vindicator so I don't really have experience with how they compare to a full blown oracle. Looking at the prestige class, you get full base attack bonus, 1d10 hp, 3/4 casting, and some flavorful special abilities. The strongest of these are probably sacred shield (major boost to AC until you get hit by a rolled attack), the ability to continue advancing and improving channel energy, and stigmata which is a floating buff to hit, damage, AC (doesn't stack with sacred shield), or saves at the cost of ongoing bleed damage.

You lose mystery advancement for the levels you take in vindicator which means you also lose mystery bonus spells (ouch). You also lose favored class benefits from oracle. So the half elf Umbra couldn't take extra spells known.

Overall it seems like a downgrade to spell power, selection, and advancement, loss of extra revelations, loss of some revelation advancement, and slower curse advancement in favor of more melee tankish focus. For our group (ranger-archer, magus, rogue + Umbra), I think this works out very well. But I think the overall white room consensus (which admittedly biases toward the power of spells) is that oracle to oracle/Vindicator is a wash or even a slight power downgrade in net capability.

Umbra won't qualify for vindicator 1 until she reaches level 8 (bab 5+). She has to boost her knowledge religion skill and take the channel alignment feat at 7.

Nice! Sounds like you have a highly developed setting. I particularly appreciate the active role of numerous goddesses in your interpretation. Hope my GM goes for it or, better yet, nabs some of the cool vibe you've cooked up. I sent him a link to this thread. So he may drop in.

Fantastic to hear there's more support for the Savith interested on the way. Thx for chiming in! I'll definitely be checking it out!

So you guys don't think it's too much of a stretch setting up a holy vindicator of Savith, even if she's more martyred hero than god?

It's ok. I clicked on the link. Saw a magic weapon of some kind (did see +2 but that's it). Then backed out. So no real harm done.

All the other stuff about Savith was great. And it's pretty amazingly clear she was a badass. The only mortal ever to defeat a God is nothing to sneeze at. I just wish there was more about her as a person. The more I find I don't know, the more I want to fill in the gaps.

Also, Azlanti civilization seems a confluence of contradictions to me. Influenced and manipulated by Aboleths, harboring demons who rose up among them (Zura) and yet also worshipping benevolent gods like Desna or civilization preservers like Aroden.

My character is a life oracle whose taken on the role of tank and healer in a party of strikers. I'm considering going down the holy vindicator route and it might be cool to develop some kind of spiritual link with Savith -- stigmata that look like the marks of serpent fang bites and ooze blood black with venom, for example.

The character is a half elf named Umbra. Her father was an anti-paladin whose bloodline descends from abyssally corrupted Azlanti. Her mother was an impoverished elf struggling to get by on the streets of Korvosa. She's a lawful good worshipper of Imodae. But she has dark urges which she's thus far been good at keeping under wraps. When she channels positive energy it comes out tainted with black and violet.

I'm thinking that the possible link, character development wise, is that Umbra's spirit and blood are tainted with abyssal 'poison' in much the same manner that Savith ultimately succumbed to Ydersius's poison. And, ironically, it's this link of taint and corruption that allows Umbra to serve Savith as her Vindicator.

Does it work?

Gish was the easy name to remember.

Pull out your Fiend Folio and you'll find that Gish were the rank and file fighter magic users in Githyanki raid parties. Usually level 4/4. Get enough of them together bashing with swords, casting mirror image, burning hands, and magic missile, and blazing away with psionics and it was an even more memorable experience than that first encounter with the admittedly nasty drow.

Yeah. Not the ones with the silver swords. But you'd find yourself up to your eyeballs in Gish if one ever happened to fall into your hands.

Thanks guys! This is a great help! I now have a far better context than before. Although, as a player in Serpent's Skull, I'm trying for history and world color, not specific crunchy spoilers related to that AP (magic items and such). Probably should have mentioned that in the header. So yeah, just the general history stuff is great!

The term absolutely came from the Githyanki.

Back in old AD&D these sword and spell weilding badasses were masters of magic, psionics, martial combat, formed pacts with red dragons who ferried their raiding parties across the planes, and forged not only the astral thread cutting silver swords (instant death for astral travelers), but the most snicker snacky of all vorpal weapons the +5 special silver sword. Unfortunately, as with many of the coolest things in AD&D, the Githyanki have been shamelessly nerfed.

All that aside, a subtype of Githyanki -- the Gish -- became very well known as a badass spell slinger and martial combatant combined. The Githyanki, and the Gish by extension, therefore defined the pinnacle of the art of combining sword and spell in combat. Elven fighter mages wished they could hold a candle to the Gish. Hence, Gish became the easy, one-word, invoking the pure head cleaving, brain exploding, fireball slinging, red dragon riding bad assery, term that people began to use to describe the idealized form of the fighter-mage.

The term has since morphed into anything that both fights and casts combat spells and does it well. In pathfinder, a cleric or an oracle can make a pretty decent Gish. A magus is the Gish class (arguably Githyanki, if they existed in pathfinder, would be a premier race for magus). And anything that combines melee (especially swordplay) with offensive magic of any kind could well be termed a Gish.

But do not forget the terrible race from which the name Gish originates -- the Githyanki, who perfected the art.

I'm playing a tankish oracle of life, ancient lore keeper in a Pathfinder campaign with some friends next month. Hashing out spell choices from the ancient lorekeeper bonus list and considering vampiric touch as a level 8 choice. As I've never had access to this spell as a divine caster, it raises a few added questions for me:

1. Strength modifies the melee touch attack, but only for to-hit, correct?
2. Spells with luck bonuses like divine favor -- do they modify to hit and damage or just to-hit as with strength?
3. Any other quirks about this spell I need to know?

Best!

Lord Twig wrote:

Thomas Long 175 wrote:

By that logic, everyone should murder their children at birth because it will send them somewhere better. Further if you do it at birth they're as innocent and pure as fresh snow. More you let them age, the less likely they are to go there.

Or we could reject the ridiculous notion and accept that murder is bad and that we're inherently trying to keep people from dying. It's not bad for them to pass, but we're certainly going to slow the process as much as we can.

No, murdering is Evil. If you do that you don't go to the happy place. Religions specifically had to put rules in place to stop people from cheating to try to get to heaven sooner.

"Heaven sounds great! I think I'll go there now!"

"Oh! No no no. If you kill yourself you don't get to go."

"Awww! Shucks!"

Nope. No cheating. You have to live the best life you can first. And you can't seek out your own death. That's cheating! But if some Evil guy kills you, you are good to go!

Why would it be an evil act if you were just helping people get to heaven sooner?

YOU'RE EVIL FOR MAKING PEOPLE'S LIVES (EXISTENCES) BETTER. TO HELL WITH YOU!

See how ridiculous that is?

Or if a paladin were truly selfless he would take the fall, murder everyone on earth so they can enjoy their eternity in exchange for one soul burning.

The paladin, in this case, if they do not tell the white lie, becomes an accessory to murder. Pretty straight forward which is the moral choice really. Using the existence of an afterlife as an excuse for becoming an accessory to murder... I would define this as highly amoral and likely evil.

I'm playing an oracle of life/ancient lorekeeper who's a bit of a Gish and these are the ones I've slotted thus far:

2: acid splash
4: enlarge person
6: false life
8: fireball
10: stoneskin
12: cone of cold
14: form of the dragon I (transformation at 16)
16: form of the dragon II

I also plan to take eldritch heritage arcane bloodline and greater eldritch heritage to access more arcane spells.

I'm a bit conflicted over my level 4 slot as I'd like to choose magic missile to get some blasting options in early on. But I've decided to content myself with sound burst at level 5.

The party I'm in consists of a two weapon rogue, a Kensai magus, and a ranger archer. I pumped my con, took toughness and have the best defenses in the party. Together, the Kensai and I alternately sub for the caster/tank roles. We are currently level 4.

How about house ruling the level 19 black blade ability to something else? You could have it transport the soul into a realm of servitude and atonement while the magus gets a divine boost for sending the soul to atone for its evils.

Otherwise, if you don't like the black blade archetype, just house rule it out.

Magus is fine, in my view. They do great damage in bursts but have trouble sustaining over a long haul if they're too liberal with spells and blade powers.