When in the playtest did your characters feel helpless or frustrated? When did you think: "This sucks. My character is super weak and useless?"
How many of these moments did you have? Did you feel that the PF2 ruleset specifically hindered your character? And as you played through the playtest, did you adapt your style to become more effective?
So the formal Pathfinder 2.0 Playtest has largely been completed at this point, and Paizo is sitting on a bunch of data from playtest surveys and other sources. Data is great. I love data! But right now, I'm more interested in personal anecdotes. Specifically, I'm hoping people are willing to discuss the following question:
When in the playtest did your character pull off a victory or accomplish a feat and think: "This is awesome! My character is a total badass!"?
How many of these moments did you have? And did you feel that the PF2 ruleset did anything to enable them, or would you have been able to do it just as well (or better) in PF1?
I've created a sister thread for this one, for negative experiences in the playtest (linked), so I hope you will please focus this thread on positive experiences (if any) you had in the playtest.
I myself have gotten very little chance to try out the playtest (though I've read the rules fairly extensively) because of real-life scheduling commitments and the lack of a group that wanted to do so. The one adventure I got to play (The Rose Street Revenge) I really enjoyed. But that's low level, and fairly limited in scope. So I'm really curious to hear from those with more direct experience.
Feel free to put your character introductions in the gameplay thread, and we'll get started soon. I will also include some useful links for how to PbP effectively.
SHAMELESSLY COPIED FROM THE WORLD'S MOST INTERESTING GM -- THANK YOU! I wish I had this when I started PbPing (figured it out on the fly from copying other players)
The World's Most Interesting GM wrote:
I don't force people to use a particular sort of set up for their character's sub-header, but there are a few things that I like to see just beneath a character's name, and in roughly this order:
Example 1 Male Human Cleric of Cayden Cailean 1 | AC 14 T 9 FF 14 | CMD 11 | hp 13 | F +4 R -1 W +5 | Spd 20' | Init -1 | KnRel +4, Perc +3, SensM +3 | channel 5/5 | daze touch 6/6 | Str surge 6/6 | [space for conditions]
Example 2 Female Elf Ranger (warden) 2/Transmuter 4 | AC 19 T 14 FF 16 | CMD 21 | hp 42 | F +6 R +8 W +6 (+8 v enchant) | Spd 30' (Run x5) | Init +7 | Kn(Arc, Geo, His, Loc, Nat) +7, Perc +9 (low-light), SensM +1, Scrft +9 (+11 ID) | clw wand 41/50 | [space for conditions]
If you want to use these just copy and paste all the text after the examples' genders and races into the Classes/Levels space on your character's profile page and edit it with your own character's info. Enter the character's gender and race in the appropriate spaces and you are done.
What I am really looking for is a character's: AC (all three), CMD, hp (current and max), saves, speed, initiative modifier, reactive skill modifiers (perception, sense motive, spellcraft, and knowledges (you can put all your character's skills in if you like and they'll fit. I just like to have quick access to the ones I might have to roll). Beyond that it is helpful to keep some space for conditions (inspired, blessed, poisoned, staggered, etc....) and space for daily use/charged items, and abilities you use most frequently (wand charges, arcane bond, class abilities like channeling, or spell slots, etc...). If there are any other notes you feel are important (bonus to a specific sort of save, darkvision, etc...) just include it where it seems most logical (as Example 2 above).
If your character's crib notes don't all fit in the Classes/Levels space you can always add some of the info to the Race, and Gender spaces. There is not a lot of space so the fewer colons, commas, periods, and (God's forbid!) text tags ([-b-], [-ooc-], etc...) you add, the more space you will have for what's important.
This adventure centers around the town of Saringallow in the region of Isger. Isger is a vassal state of Cheliax located between the merchant Kalistocracy of Druma to the northeast, the parliamentary democracy Andoran to the southeast, and infernal Cheliax to the southwest. Saringallow is a large predominantly human town, located on the Conerica River, south of Isger's capital of Elidir. It is governed by Mayor Sandra Trinelli.
You begin this adventure in the town of Saringallow, have answered a call for assistance from Mayor Trinelli, whether for more altruistic or mercenary reasons.
Mark Seifter's post and the subsequent discussion got me thinking about the new critical hit formula.
As far as I understand it, in PF2 you crit (or are crit) when your attack roll exceeds the target's AC by 10 or more, as opposed to PF1, where you threatened a crit on a weapon-based target number.
As I thought about it more, I realized a few implications of this new system:*
[1] High-accuracy characters probably got buffed (depends on exact numbers), ESPECIALLY against low AC opponents.
[2] Attack buffs do more for high-accuracy characters than they did in the old system.
[3] Lower accuracy characters got slightly nerfed.
I made a fast and dirty plot showing how your expected damage changes with the difference between AC and attack bonus in the old and new systems. The difference at the more "accurate" end of the plot is pretty striking. For the old system, I used a 19-20/x2 weapon. The qualitative picture doesn't change much with other weapons. For the new system, I assumed a crit was double weapon damage (no x3 or x4, for obvious reasons, and I think this is pretty strong evidence we won't see those crit modifiers in PF2). I also assumed you still miss on a natural 1.
Of course, this all depends on the exact AC and attack numbers. But it certainly looks like a difference of 4-5 on attack could really end up being quite a bit of damage, and that the difference does not go away with party-wide buffs (e.g. bard).
Overall, I suspect that's a slight buff of more 'martial' classes, and think it would be a good thing. I'll be interested to see how it turns out in the playtest.
==
*I have not gone through this for iterative attacks. I suspect, however, that the trend would hold up pretty well, since the "inaccurate" end of the plot is very similar between the two systems. In other words, the first attack would do significantly more damage, and the later attacks would do at least equivalent damage. On net, a damage increase.
My regular group is starting up a RotRL campaign, so everyone is building new characters. One member of the group wants to play a CG gnome cleric of Cernunnos (Empyreal Lord), which I think is a fun idea. He came across the faith trait Zealot from Gnomes of Golarion, and wants to have that as one of his traits.
Zealot wrote:
Prerequisite: You must match the alignment of your chosen deity exactly.
Benefit: You gain a +1 trait bonus on Knowledge (religion) checks, and that skill is a class skill for you. As long as you remain completely faithful to the tenets of your faith (as determined by the GM), you never suffer from the Bleaching.
The only problem is I can't find any fleshed out description of the tenets of Cernunnos. The closest I've found is from the Bestiary 4 section on Empyreal Lords,
Spoiler:
Cernunnos' Faith
Good fey, intelligent plant creatures, and mortal rangers and druids worship Cernunnos. Elven fighters and rogues often view him as a patron of luck and good fortune, but others pray to him for strength against evil. His sacred places are secluded groves, waterfalls, and deep forests.
Cernunnos's holy symbol is the head of a stag, ram or similar horned creature with torcs or rings hanging from its horns. His favored weapon is the longbow. He grants access to the Animal, Chaos, Good, and Plant domains, and access to the Azata, Feather, Fur, and Growth subdomains.
but that's pretty vague. I'm thinking of generally letting him slide with statements about respecting nature, working with servants of friendly good gods (e.g. Desna), and fighting against any great evils ... but I'd love one or two more specific items. Any suggestions, either homebrew or from PF resources as to ways to get slightly more concrete tenets for this faith?
So I've been thinking of ways to bump the power of the base Fighter class without completely changing the flavor of the class. My overall feeling about the place of the Fighter class in the world of Pathfinder:
Pathfinder is a world full of magic, monsters, and a general supernatural freak show. A Fighter picks up a sword and says "Yeah, I think I can take that head-on," with no spells, no supernatural abilities, and generally nothing but his* own prowess**. He is a martial specialist who has poured all of his training into preparing himself to survive in this sort of world. Other classes spent time and energy to learn magic, or learn to harness supernatural abilities (like Cleaving a spell asunder). The Fighter poured all of his energy into physical and mental training. I've reflected this in bonus AC and saves (which scale by level), and ease of feats that other classes do not have, as well as some extra damage in more mobile fights. Fighter already does very nice damage in fights where he can just stand toe-to-toe with an enemy and full attack. I didn't see any good reason to bump this up more.
At the end of the day, what I'm hoping is that these changes would give the Fighter a material edge in toe-to-toe combat over martial classes, that will be approximately balanced out by the additional spells and abilities they bring to the table***. I scaled the bonuses by around what other classes gain in supernatural abilities as time goes on.
I'm mostly looking at this for homebrew, since I don't think Paizo would adopt it (mostly because a lot of Archetypes have traded out Bravery and Armor Training, and possibly because it makes a Fighter too easy to build for worlds where the DM already just has monsters walk up and full attack, rather than skirmishing, casting spells, and using more tactical combat). That being said, I'm hoping for feedback on these ideas, and if people have suggestions or comments I'd love to hear them.
Skill Ranks per Level: 4+ Int modifier.
Bravery (Ex)Dauntless (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a fighter gains a +1 bonus all saves. This bonus increases by +1 for every three levels beyond 2nd.
Armor Training (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a fighter learns to be more maneuverable while wearing armor. Whenever he is wearing armor, he reduces the armor check penalty by 1 (to a minimum of 0), gains a +1 dodge bonus, and increases the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor by 1. Every four levels thereafter (7th, 11th, and 15th), these bonuses increase by +1 each time, to a maximum –4 reduction of the armor check penalty, +4 maximum dodge bonus to AC, and a +4 increase of the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed.
In addition, a fighter can also move at his normal speed while wearing medium armor. At 7th level, a fighter can move at his normal speed while wearing heavy armor.
Knack for Combat(Ex) Starting at 4th level, a Fighter can choose bonus Fighter feats even if he does not meet the stat requirements of that feat.
Deadly Charge (Ex) At 10th level, when a Fighter makes a charge, he may use a swift action to make a Full Attack, rather than a single attack. Attacks after the first attack do not receive any additional benefit such as plus to hit from the charge. A Fighter may use this ability a number of times equal to 3 + his CON modifier, plus an additional 1 time per day for every two Fighter levels past 10**.
* or "her" if you prefer. I'm not particular.
** This generally then goes two directions. Either the Fighter's a normal, deluded guy who just picked up a sword and is in for a short, nasty, and brutish experience, or he's actually got the chops to pull it off. I chose to believe the latter. If you believe the former, the current Fighter class probably feels okay to you.
*** Let's leave Rogue out of it for now.
**** I was hesitant about adding resources since it changes the feel of the Fighter class a little, but I thought there should be some sort of limit on this ability. I tied it to Constitution, because this relates back to the Fighter's stamina.
So I've been mucking around with a Dwarf Fighter build to try out, and figured I'd build it out to level 10 and see how it looks. Looking for feedback on the overall build, as well as any specific Feats or other choices. I had a number of goals in mind, and I think I pulled most of them off.
(1) Decent saves (especially Will). Overall, I think I pulled this off. Vs. Dominate Person, e.g. I would have a +15 to save, which means it's probably a swing and a miss for most encounters.
(2) Ability to either melee or ranged attack decently. I leaned more towards melee, but overall think I'm okay at both. Ranged attacks more for fliers, or if I tactically want to stay at range.
(3) "Good enough" AC. 29 is nothing special, but I'm using a 2H weapon, and should be able to pump out pretty good DPS, including use of Lunge as necessary. Depending on the fight, I may quaff a potion of enlarge person, to generate some additional AoOs against normal enemies (or let me attack, e.g. Giants without eating AoOs).
(4) Skills I pretty much wrote off.
(5) Some adaptability. Extra weapon and shield for if I really feel I need the defense more than damage (seldom). Chain shirt for sleeping (yay for night ambushes). Alchemist's fire just in case. Various misc items (chalk, grapping hooks, etc) I didn't bother listing.
Problems I see:
(1) No good way to deal with invisible creatures. Considered getting Blind-Fight at next level. Pretty much relying on a Faerie Fire or Glitterdust right now.
(2) No flight or self-haste, though I will get those with higher WBL.
(3) Complete lack of skills. Not much to do about this one.
(4) Initiative is a bit low. I may pick up for Improved Initiative in a level or two.
Anyway, here is the guy I came up with. Curious about suggestions or comments people may have.
CN Dwarf Fighter
Vital Stats
STR 19(21) DEX 14(16) CON 16 INT 10 WIS 13 CHA 5
111 HP
29 AC / 15 Tch / 26 Flatfooted
+4 Initiative
CMB +15 / CMD +30 (34 vs. Bull Rush / Trip)
Saves
13 Fort / 9 Reflex / 9 Will
+2 vs. Poison
+4 vs. Spells and SLAs (Steel Soul)
+2 vs. Charm and Compulsion (Birthmark)
+3 on Will saves vs. Fear (Bravery)
Full Plate +3 (E)
Chain Shirt (for sleeping)
Heavy Steel Shield +1 (alt 2)
Amulet of Natural Armor +2 (E)
Ring of Protection +2 (E)
Belt of Physical Might (Str/Dex) +2 (E)
Cloak of Resistance +3 (E)
Handy Haversack
Oil of Bless Weapon (5)
Magic Weapon (5)
Potion of Enlarge Person (5)
Potion of Protection from Evil (5)
Alchemist's Fire (5)
Fighter
Weapon Training 1 - Heavy Axes +2
Weapon Training 2 - Bows +1
Feats
Power Attack*
Step Up*
WF: Greataxe
GWF: Greataxe
Combat Reflexes
Point Blank Shot*
Precise Shot*
Rapid Shot
Iron Will
Deadly Aim
Steel Soul
Traits
Birthmark (+2 vs. Charm and Compulsion)
Seeker (+1 Perception; Perception is a class skill)
Veteran of Battle (+1 initiative; may draw weapon as free action if able to act during surprise round)
