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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber. Organized Play Member. 139 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 Organized Play character.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

The General feats in the CRB are just pretty lackluster. Regardless of class there are often cases where you are better served by a skill feat.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

This is a spoiler for Absolam Initiation, the introductory Pathfinder Society Scenario for Second Edition.

Spoiler:

There is an out of control ritual at one point in the scenario that the Player Characters must try to stabilize. Correcting the flaws in the ritual was an Occultism check. Failure meant these nasty shadow tendrils (that would invade your space and try to grapple you) would spill out.

As mada_gib says generally when interfacing with anything magical you use the skill for the relevant tradition. Like with Recall Knowledge you might grant the ability to use a skill for one of the other traditions at a higher DC. The skill chapter also covers using different attributes for a skill at GM discretion.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

A caster multi-classing into a martial class does not feel underwhelming because martial classes have a better chassis. It feels underwhelming because their chassis is already so close. A spell caster that has access to decent weapon proficiencies like a cleric, a druid, or an elf anything is already only one tier behind most martial classes. They do not have much to gain because if they gain anything they would match most martial classes. There is no room to grow without becoming on par with a variety of single class martial characters.

The baseline for martial characters is Master level proficiency. Some classes get Legendary proficiency in areas where they are stronger than other martial classes, but the baseline is Master level proficiency.

Getting "only" Expert level proficiency in martial weapons or heavy armor puts a caster one tier behind most martial classes. Just like master level spell casting puts a martial character one tier behind spell casters that are not warpriests. They do so with much less investment. It's just that one tier behind is exactly where they are already at in their existing armor and weapon proficiencies while most martial characters start untrained in spell casting so there's a lot more room to grow.

I am not discounting that it feels like less structural growth, but that is because the gap is already so close.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

If the item is intelligent I would just use the normal social influence rules. Either stat it out as a creature or just give it a Will Save and an initial attitude. That way players could deceive it with Lie, Coerce it, or Convince it or even use Charm and other spells against it.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Besides some that were deliberately removed like war priests that were just as good at melee combat as fighters and disarm specialists I think mostly reflecting the more versatile classes from First Edition like Rangers and Paladins can be difficult to realize.

On the flip side any concept that is more skill dependent seems easier to model. You can build a strong Assassin or Knight off the Fighter chassis with a lot less work. You can build a very thief like Illusionist without multi-classing. Also multi-classing into a caster feels way better to me.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Generally speaking the 80/20 rule applies to most martial classes in PF2. Your pure throughput options are generally low level feats. Higher level feats are all about responding to unusual tactical situations.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Here's what the Lost Omens character Guide has to say on Uncommon Ancestries:

Lost Omens Character Guide wrote:


While these ancestries are uncommon in the same way a magic item, a feat, or a spell is, an ancestry is something you choose at the beginning of the campaign. Specific campaigns might provide a list of uncommon ancestries that are particularly appropriate for that setting, such as hobgoblins in a campaign set near Oprak, or lizardfolk for a campaign in the Mwangi Expanse, and grant access to those ancestries. In other games, these ancestries are as available as your group desires them to be.

Basically it just signifies an ancestry that might not be appropriate for every campaign and might not be part of "civilized" society. It's basically a matter of your GM making them available by default based on where the game takes place or asking your GM.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

A given game element being Uncommon or Rare is not about game balance. An Uncommon spell like Teleport is not designed to be more powerful than a Common spell of the same level like Repulsion. Teleport is Uncommon because it shapes the sorts of stories the game is about.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

It's not really spelled out anywhere in the rules. Treat Wounds is the only skill action I can see in the rules that has this sort of if Expert you can do this thing. This sort of thing is fertile ground for an FAQ question.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

The status of my order shows as delivered, but I have checked with my previous apartment complex and they never received the package. I also setup mail forwarding and have not received it at my new address. What are my next steps?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Both lore and mechanics are important to me, but I look at every edition change as a brand new game. Quality rather than continuity of lore is what matters to me. A big part of the reason I am such a fan of Exalted Third Edition is because I think the lore changes make for a better game.

I do tend to run shorter 1-2 year campaigns.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

More important than Intelligence here is culture. Here's what the Bestiary has to say about Orcs:

Orcs wrote:


Orcs are violent, monstrous humanoids that live by the rule that might makes right. They amass in brutal warbands both large and small, decimating and robbing those unlucky enough to cross their path. Countless small settlements, outposts, and forts have fallen at the hands of orc raiders, whose fecundity and sheer destructiveness leave an indelible mark on the lands they conquer. Survivors of orc invasions are as likely to be fed to the orcs’ war beasts as they are to be taken as slaves. Unspeakable atrocities await any outsiders brought back to orc encampments, and to many, death is a far more preferable outcome compared to capture by orcs.

Physically, orcs tower over most humanoids and look practically custom-made for violence with their rough flesh, sturdy bone, and iron-hard muscle. For all their tough looks, however, orcs are far from invincible. They lack the discipline to conduct large-scale campaigns, for one thing, and they typically lose their heads in the heat of battle. Even their skin scars easily—though this is a source of pride to the orc people, since scars signify strength and experience in battle. To orcs, the crisscross of old wounds are a much a badge of pride and honor as any beheaded foe or claimed trophy.

Orcs are a people of violent passions in all that they do, not just war. Bonds of blood are especially strong among orcs, and lineage is important. The strongest orc bands are typically made up of brothers and sisters in more than arms; orcs fight harder when they are protecting their own kinsfolk, and orc warriors will fight tirelessly to avenge fallen family members. This emphasis on bloodlines is not an altruistic one, however, and is in fact a double-edged sword. Orcs whose families have been killed find themselves at the bottom of the clan’s totem pole, and even a famous chieftain can become powerless overnight if their brethren aren’t there to back them up.

The chaotic and fractious nature of orc culture results in a great variety of beliefs, superstitions, and legacies among different clans. This cultural divergence causes substantial infighting among orc bands, in many cases preventing the rise of larger orc nations. It can also frustrate many attempts at diplomacy, as the taboos of one band may be commonplace and thoroughly accepted practices among others. Navigating a specific band’s culture can often mean the difference between life and death to those who deal with orcs off the field of war. Although orcs, as a rule, rarely deal with outsiders, they recognize the benefits of trade and willingly swap resources with other violent peoples like hobgoblins, drow, and many humans.

Orcs are proud, emotional warriors. They lack discipline. They fight as much for personal glory as the aims of the group. Wounds are a badge of honor. They fight among themselves as much as outsiders.

I could see this sort of skirmishing tactic from hobgoblins or goblins, but not Orcs. They want to be the one to get your head.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I might be missing something, but my response as a player here would be ready an action to Grapple one of those suckers as soon as they got close. Then we would smash it so it cannot do that crap anymore. The other orcs should get the message.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I have no experience from the other side of the screen, but so far as a player I love the secret rolls. I am a real big fan of the sort of fog of war it creates where you have to work on uncertain information. It just feels more real to me.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

As written once an unconscious character who is not dying takes damage they automatically wake up.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Temperans,

I was speaking mostly to thematic rather than game balance concerns. Probably best to move this tangent to another thread.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

One of the reasons I personally like rarity and additional content being at the GM's discretion is the creative freedom it provides to Paizo to create niche content. Fairly early in the life cycle of Second Edition we are getting playable Lizardfolk, Hobgoblins, Orcs, and Kobolds in player facing books. In an environment where everything is open by default we would probably not be getting those things.

When you open things by default nearly every option has to fit nearly every game. Taking this tact means Paizo is free to experiment and provide things that are a strong fit for some tables, but would not be a good fit for other tables. They get to create subversive and potentially disruptive material that they would otherwise not get to write because its inclusion is based on GM judgment.

In my experience Fifth Edition is played in a very open way. Because of that Wizards of the Coast has a very rigorous approval process that means most niche content is either cordoned off in GM centered material or just does not get printed. I do not want that.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I had to move unexpectedly. I changed my address in my subscription settings and just wanted to make sure that my Lost Omens Character Guide will not be shipped to my old place.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Party Cleric: You know Fireball is not the best solution to every problem.

Party Wizard: That's why I occasionally prepare Lightning Bolt.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
John Lynch 106 wrote:
Matthew Downie wrote:
John Lynch 106 wrote:
if your using a weapon attack to point out the square I hope it's a thrusting weapon. Otherwise a slashing or bludgeoning weapon really only narrows it down to a few squares.
How wildly are you swinging your club if we can't work out what you're aiming at to within a few feet? Normally you'd need a Cleave feat to swing your weapon across multiple squares.
How precisely can you watch someone else without expending actions to do so?

Exactly. Seek is an action. I think you would be justified in using it close to the area your ally attacked, but you would still need to use it.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Wisdom is a pretty good stat to have anyway, particular in an environment where you get 4 ability boosts. It boosts a critical saving throw that protects you from effects that can often take you out of a fight. It improves Perception which affects searching, detecting lies, not being sneaked up on, and Initiative. It has a host of incredibly useful skills like Nature, Religion, Survival, and Medicine. Wisdom is an incredibly stat to have. Maybe too good.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
WatersLethe wrote:

The "in this book" limitation makes a lot of sense if it's intentional. Druids and Clerics have a huge cognitive load right out of the gate since they get access to the whole list. If that keeps growing it'll get out of hand for new players. Looking at the specific language:

Cleric: "...the common spells on the divine spell list in this book (page 309) or from other divine spells to which you gain access."

Druid: "...the common spells on the primal spell list in this book (page 314), or from other primal spells to which you gain access."

Wizard: "...the common spells on the arcane spell list from this book (page 307) or from other arcane spells you gain access to."

It all looks pretty intentional.

I also like that it makes it easier to square in the fiction. If a new book comes out and all of a sudden Clerics and Druids are preparing all these new spells they previously had no access to it can be hard to square like where those spells came from. Obviously the release of the Advanced Player's Guide is not like a world changing event.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Font is strong and healing is nice, but even if your Cleric never casts a single offensive spell there is lots of nasty stuff to remove in this version of the game. You will want Wisdom for Remove Disease, Remove Curse and all sorts of other important spells. Not to mention if you intend to be a full service healer and not just a combat healer you will probably want to invest in Medicine.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Neovancian spell casting also makes the wizard play almost exactly like the Sorcerer. It also has a massively constrained casting environment where any spell with a meaningful duration cannot be cast with other spells that have any kind of duration. Even then spell casters feel entirely too flexible to me.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Your Wisdom also impacts your DC when someone tries to counteract one of your spells. Having a low Wisdom on top of your lower spell casting proficiency is a recipe for having your buffs be dispelled away easily. If you play in a game where dispel magic does not get thrown around its less of a big deal.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

While not designed for role playing games the Gamer Motivation Profile and Board Gamer Motivation profile at Quantic Foundry might help you assess what players value in games. This can be really helpful in tailoring the games to what players are looking for on a game level.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I do not think skill actions need to be balanced in the same way that class feats should be balanced. I think it is more important that they reflect what is going on in the narrative.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I am not seeing anything that suggests attacking a hidden creature makes it observed or shifts it to hidden for anyone else.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I get your point Zapp, but they will not get an automatic critical success. Assurance is 10 + Proficiency Modifier. No other bonuses apply. A level 5 character who is an expert gets a result of 19. That is an automatic success, but not a critical success.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

You should also be getting spell scrolls as treasure during your adventures and be able to acquire spells in downtime. You get the two for free, but your a wizard. Be resourceful.

Basically work with your GM.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I think they should have implemented runes for shields maybe with hardness being one rune and improvements to shield hit points being another.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Make sure you really want to do this. Then let them know that standing back is usually a good idea. Then if they do not move to the back smack them, but make sure they have a hero point. Explain why they got smacked. Do not be subtle about it.

Of course that might not actually work because wizards can actually have a decent AC in this game and can have fairly decent hit points, particularly at first level. I mean a human wizard might have 15 hit points compared to a human rogue's 17 hit points and the rogue is expected to be part of the melee scrum.

It's also very possible depending on the fight that if they stand to far back additional enemies might engage them with no meaningful way for the front line to peel the enemies off them. This is not always the optimal tactic.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Here's what Wisdom matters for:

1. Counteracting a poison or disease with Wholeness of Body
2. Your Save DCs for Ki Blast and Quivering Palm
3. Your Save DC is also used to determine the difficulty of counteracting your Ki Spells such as if they are counter-spelled or if the stuff like Wind Jump that have a duration are subjected to Dispel Magic.

I think even if you want to make Ki Blast and Quivering Palm an important part of your character starting with a 14 in Wisdom is still pretty good. As long as you keep putting Boosts in Wisdom you will only end up 1 bonus behind a class that has Wisdom as a main stat except for the vast majority of play (5-19). Having a high Wisdom from 1-4 pretty much only matters for counteracting diseases and poisons with Wholeness of Body which you can gain at level 3. The heal does not care about your stats.

I would probably do something like this for a Strength focused Ki Monk

Strength 18
Dexterity 14
Constitution 12
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 14
Charisma 10

You hit hard and still have the same AC as a raging barbarian. Unlike the Barbarian your relative AC will increase as you level. By the time your save DC matters you will be in a pretty good place.

If you do not care so much about Ki Blast or Quivering Palm a Wisdom of 12 should probably be adequate.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I think there is plenty of system mastery (perhaps a bit too much) to the game. It is just mostly weighted towards the round by round decisions you make. The tight math and degrees of success built into the game means small differences in the math have huge impacts. Things like knowing when to feint or demoralize, flanking, targeting weak saves, exploiting a monster's weakness, timing your attacks and spells, and the like all make a huge difference on success or failure.

Here exploration, build and spell selection can have a significant impact on success, but it is not the same sort of impact it had in First Edition where it decided success or failure all on its own. It's more that your build provides you with a set of tools that you have to utilize to win the day. Some builds will be more suited to a given encounter than another, but you still have to execute. As an example a monk who has elemental fist has the ability to pretty much target a wide variety of monster weaknesses with their ki strike, but actually executing on it involve a series of choices made while playing the game that they would not have access to with a different build.

Character build in this game is more like building a Magic deck. You can build the best deck you know how to, but you still have to play the game, might get some bad draws, or run into decks that have strong counters to what you can do. Does that make any sense?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Played through the Absolam Initiative scenario in a party of 6 with my Skilled Human Noble Dragon Aspect Barbarian. My social skills definitely came in handy except when a secret Gather Information roll critical failure led us to almost lose everybody in the ritual part of the scenario. It was amazing!

In combat we got beat up pretty bad. I dropped like 3 times over the course of the scenario, including twice in one of the boss fight encounters. Glad I still had a hero point!

We also had a couple of other people drop at one point or another. My ability to do fire damage came up big in a couple encounters. I also really benefited from my ability to Feint and Demoralize.

I will say that the action economy is not always your friend. I definitely had to shift around my Bastard Sword quite a bit.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

The Wizard has the exact some wording on Weapon Specialization largely because it is the same wording everyone gets. Same for all the martial classes that get Greater Weapon Specialization.

I'm fairly certain they have no plans to give Wizards Legendary proficiency in Weapons.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

So my suspicion is that granting 4 boosts instead of 1 or 2 is mostly in place to keep the math relatively tight. My assumption is that the developers basically assume most players will be investing in their primary plus at least Constitution and Wisdom with many also investing in Dexterity to keep defenses from going pear shaped at high levels like they do in other editions. You can opt not to and make tertiary investments in Charisma or Intelligence, but for the most part the more math critical Ability Scores will generally be chosen.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

The more Athletic classes have options to run much faster than this. A Barbarian who takes Fast Movement (Barbarian 4) and Fleet can run 120 ft. in a round. If they take Furious Sprint at level 10 they can run 200 ft in a straight line for 2 actions or 320 ft in a straight line for 3 actions.

Monks of course have extremely high movement speeds that just keep getting better. They also have access to ki rush from level 1 to be able to move twice with a single action. Of course other than their high movement speeds most of their mobility is inherently supernatural.

I would have been fine with slightly higher base movement rates though.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

If you think players should get more feats why not just give them more feats? Feats are primarily about granting additional versatility and do not impact the core math of the game whereas ability boosts have a significant impact on the core math. What are you trying to accomplish here?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

There's been a recent sundering in goblin society. Some goblin tribes have decided that longshanks are not like so terrible and they no longer want to be subjected to random longshank violence. They still like to set fires for fun and sing terrible songs. However, a lot of goblins are still murderous and like to sing terrible songs and set fires for fun. We basically have some Chaotic Neutral Goblins and some Chaotic Evil Goblins.

Individual Player Characters may vary.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

In exploration mode when what a character is doing is not part of a defined activity it is left up to the GM to define what happens. Just like when you attempt something in combat not covered by the rules. There is guidance that says when improvising look at how often they are performing they activity. It says doing an encounter mode action frequently might be limited or cause exhaustion. The GM is supposed to apply judgement when making this determination. Obviously they should be looking at the fiction when they make that decision.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I do not see this as a retraining issue. Access to these archetypes is mostly just weird because of a rogue's very specific weapon proficiency setup when they are very thematic for a rogue. In some way I think you should address the Rogue problem with the Rogue class, maybe a level 1 class feat that allows them to train in an advanced finesse weapon.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I think there is a fundamental difference between a game that fundamentally requires GM intervention to even function much like how ability checks function in D&D 5th Edition and one where GM judgement is applied in specific cases called out by the game like Apocalypse World. Pathfinder 2 as written reminds me a lot more of Apocalypse World than Fifth Edition.

Broadly the game is very good at providing tools to help the GM make the calls they need to make.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

No one can really tell if a given stand alone adventure will be appropriate for their game without actually getting it, reading through it, and often making alterations to make it fit the sort of game they are looking to run. The blurb only tells us enough to tell if an adventure is worth looking into.

Adventure Paths are another matter entirely. Part of running an Adventure Path involves substantial buy in. You are opting to follow the setting, tone, themes, and pacing of the Adventure Path.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I'm guessing it would not specify reactions if it was not intended to work across rounds.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Both explicitly call out that you can use it on yourself.

Treat Wounds wrote:
You spend 10 minutes treating one injured living creature (targeting yourself, if you so choose).
Battle Medicine wrote:


You can patch up yourself or an adjacent ally, even in combat.

The other uses are more sketchy.

First aid is on an adjacent creature plus there's the whole if your dying your unconscious thing.

The target for Treat Disease is a diseased creature. I guess that could be yourself.

Treat poison specifies patient. I guess you could be your own patient.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Season finale? Does that mean future seasons might be in the cards?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Aenigma wrote:
I thought I cannot take a level 2 feat at level 10, be it an ancestry feat, a class feat or a skill feat. Am I wrong?

You can take a feat of that level or lower in the same category.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Normal Command An Animal results in the animal using its actions on its next turn to do as commanded. As a minion an animal companion only has actions if it is commanded and does not have a turn of its own. It has no actions or turns to follow your commands with. It only gains actions if you command it, and then only 2, once on your turn.

You can use all three of your actions to command a normal animal which then will use all three of its actions on its turn to comply.

Basically an animal companion has no more actions to give.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Animal companions have the Minion trait and are normally limited to 2 actions per turn if you command them. It looks like you can still only command them once by my reading. Note the once per turn language.

Minion Trait wrote:
Minions are creatures that directly serve another creature. A creature with this trait can use only 2 actions per turn and can’t use reactions. Your minion acts on your turn in combat, once per turn, when you spend an action to issue it commands. For an animal companion, you Command an Animal; for a minion that’s a spell or magic item effect, like a summoned minion, you Sustain a Spell or Sustain an Activation; if not otherwise specified, you issue a verbal command, a single action with the auditory and concentrate traits. If given no commands, minions use no actions except to defend themselves or to escape obvious harm. If left unattended for long enough, typically 1 minute, mindless minions usually don’t act, animals follow their instincts, and sapient minions act how they please.

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