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If you are using third party material, then I'd recommend the Talented Monk (choices augmented with More Monk Talents) by Rogue Genius Games. That should let you build pretty much any monk you want and ones that can carry their own weight in a party.

I've been reading through it, and it they look pretty good. I haven't read the whole thing, but would it be possible to build a really solid dpr/cmb build (if you know or could point me to some more info)?

It also lets you self-buff your unarmed attacks before strong jaw. Since Flame Blade is a melee touch spell, you can cast Flame Blade, then make a normal flurry of blows. You are not targeting touch AC, but when you hit they take your unarmed strike damage and flame blade damage.

It also works with Produce Flame.

This is a pretty cool build. I've seen some similar things done a few times to good effect. I might build a character based around it, but like was previously stated, it's not exactly what I'm looking for with this character

stuff

only problem I see is you have to dip 7 levels into druid to get strong jaw. so it'll be a while before you start to put out big dpr

Best possible way to optimize a Monk? Mix it with a Druid of course!!

Being Huge sized, Level 10 monk at the minimum, Monk's Robe, Monastic Legacy Feat, Strong Jaw. That gets you 12d8 in just your fist damage alone per swing.

However, if you do not want to mix Druid, then go straight Monk(Qinggong) and somehow get access to a Size enhancing spell like Enlarge, and the Strong Jaw spell that increases your Unarmed Strike damage die by 2 categories. This is about as good as it all gets.

You could also go Monk/Brother of the Seal.

Snake Style, Snake Sidewind, and Snake Fang are fantastic options if your AC is high enough. They give you even more attacks :)

Also, if you can somehow acquire Pounce or just take the Dimensional Agility/Assault/Dervish feats and jack up your Abundant Step to basically be a pounce that reaches anything anywhere.(Think of Goku and his Instant Transmission) This will greatly help your damage every round(DPR) as you can always close the gap AND still pull off a full attack.

Heh, those are actually some really cool ways to play a monk. Never thought about mixing a druid (although it now seems obvious)

So, the first thing you're thinking is "what kind of monk?" Well, I'm looking to make the best possible unarmed melee monk possible. I don't think I'll actually be using him, but if I did it would be in a campaign where none of the players believe monks can be any good. I basically want to use every underhanded, dirty, or munchkin-esque thing I can find to push him overboard. The GM is pretty lenient, so we can use any PF content and quite a bit of 3rd party content with his approval. We get 2 traits (3 if we take 1 drawback), and I'm sure a few erratas could be "overlooked." We're currently using a 20 point buy, and I'm looking to get as many tasty points from dumped stats as possible. Currently looking at a 19str/14dex/14con/7int/14wis/7cha buy, but I'm still playing around with it. So in essence, help me be a piece-of-crap-SUPER-power-gamer just for fun.

Volaticus wrote:

Wouldn't that lead to the class being pretty MAD? I guess if I only have to focus on str and int it wouldn't be too bad. Also, our gm uses the 4d6 system instead of a point buy for whatever reason, so I guess it would really just be up to luck.

A little, but since alchemists can only wear light armor you probably wanted Dex anyway. And of course Str was going to be a want for you, and Int is your casting stat. (It's unfortunate that the Str mutagen decreases your Int by 2 (so 1 lower on your bombs' DC & damage), but +4 to str & +2 AC is a pretty good trade off.) You'll be OK with 12 con if you take the Spontaneous Healing alchemist discovery - it's basically a souped-up Toughness. (Toughness gets you 1hp/level, Spontaneous Healing gets you 2.5.) If things get rough you can also retreat and start bombing, and you have spells like Shield, Displacement, and Greater Invis available.

Of course, if you go Archer/Bomber, you only need Dex and Int (and can prepare Dex mutagens instead of Str). There's also a discovery, Explosive Missile, that lets you basically strap a bomb to an arrow. So with a 6th level Grenadier Alchemist, you can move, spend a swift action to add an alchemical item, like an Acid Flask, Smokestick, or Thunderstone, to your arrow; then as a standard load a bomb and fire it. Pretty sweet huh?

The idea of an archer alchemist is pretty interesting, but wouldn't that require too many feats? And what would I be prioritizing, int or dex?

Volaticus wrote:

I am interested in an alchemist, I've never played one before. It's just that I have a sinking suspicion that it won't be that fun for me. It seems like it's just going to be another fighter who quaffs potions every now and then, but I'm not sure. On top of that, we could really use some ranged physical damage, and we already have a lot of people at the front line (cleric likes to get in the thick of things)

Well, it certainly is a self-buffing fighter, but with access to things like Enlarge Person, Burrow, and Invisibility it opens up a whole lot of interesting options. Especially if you take Infusion and start handing extracts out to your friends. You also get easy access to an alchemical item toolbelt and a reservoir of explosives (touch attacks that deal damage based on Int) and a suite of discoveries to either add effects like fog or tanglefoot to your bombs, or give yourself a familiar or fast healing or an extra arm or friggin' wings.

Anyway, don't be too quick to dismiss alchemists.

PS: Note that it is possible to create an awesome Alchemist Archer. The Grenadier archetype gives you proficiency with a martial weapon and the ability to infuse your attacks with alchemical items. So you basically get Green Arrow utility arrows. Also with a Dex mutagen you deal pretty great damage.

PPS: Failing that, go Ranger archery or switch hitter. Your party needs more skill points.

You do make the alchemist sound fun, and more useful than I originally thought. Do the explosive potions do real damage with the str based build? That seems like it might be a fun and viable option if so.

I've played both a switch hitter and a range archer before, so I know that they dish out some damage. The point of this thread was just to find out if something I've never seen before that doesn't get much love could actually work

if psionics are allowed, Soulknives do a good amount of damage

scorching ray does decent damage, if you were higher level I'd suggest potentially trying for arcane trickster ninja/sorscerer or wizard/alchemist (vivisectionist)
see if your DM will allow the 3.5 feet "precocious apprentice" to get into it early

you might want to try my "ultimate archer build" it was originally designed for gestalt where the build is frankly an insane flurry of magic arrow-y death
but the first part works decently enough alone outside of it
for your first 4+ levels take the magus class with the Myrmidarch and hexcrafter archetypes
as soon as possible, get your quiver enchanted with continuous "abundant ammunition" it's a 1st lvl spell so it's not that expensive
next get yourself some of the special arrows, choice among them the one with Drow poison, get one arrow of each special material type that overcomes DR, get a bleeding arrow, and a raining arrow for when you're fighting undead and outsiders etc etc etc
while using those normally would be either expensive or use up actions, now you get an unlimited supply at the start

at this point you now have touch spells and deadly drow poison and a spell on the end of each and every one of your arrows, even when you run out of normal spells, you'll be able to add "brand" to it for +1 damage and an unheal-able curse scar (well unheal-able without removing the curse first), for humiliation purposes should the enemy live

you can find the full version of said build here

I like the idea of a soulknife, but I'm not sure if it would be allowed. I also like your archer build, it's different from what I've seen before. Might have to consider it

This sounds like a party that could do well with an elven inquisitor. At level 5, you'll get the damage you need. I say elven because it gives martial style sword proficiencies, high dex and more skill, and racial spell like abilities with alternate features, as well as that wonderful racial silent hunter fast stealth deal. This will allow arcane strike for damage that has no accuracy penalty, judgments, and that beautiful, beautiful bane feature.

If you get higher levels and two weapon fighting, double bane will allow you to do the bane damage with each weapon for half duration.

You get stealth, nice buffs, exceptional detection, and some incredible spike damage in ranged or melee. The teamwork feats might be nice to get to work off the party's overly controller/defender feels. If you pick a domain, I would go with destruction to crank out the damage, and get that optimistic gambler trait for ridiculous durations per use. At 8th level, you get to share that extra damage with adjacent like party members.

You'll bring the pain, and even help the others bring some too!

An otherwise solid option is the arcane duelist archetype bard, but change out bladethirst or inspire courage, and masterpieces, for the bane.

Man, I love to play inquisitors. It's just that they're kind of old to me now. I've played one for a long time and I don't know if I'd like starting out fresh. Your idea of a bard is actually really interesting, it's one of the few other classes that I haven't played and I've been thinking about it. Didn't think I could fit it in anywhere here though, so thanks for the suggestion.