Brandark3's page

One time bump. Hoping for some clarification.
Thanks

Many of us are familiar with the concept of riding your familiar. A small hero with a flying improved familiar and, for example, undersized mount feat, could easily ride his familiar.

But what about the inverse? If a familiar had Mounted Combat and was "riding" his master (sitting on a shoulder, for example), could he utilize his Mounted Combat Feat to negate a hit on his Mount (the Master?)

This interaction becomes further complicated when you can share combat feats with your familiar (Eldritch Guardian Fighter Archtype) and the Familiar attempts to utilize Spirited Charge and/or Ride-By-Attack with the Master as the Mount.

For a character Concept demonstrating how one would achieve this interaction, feel free to check out this post.

Thanks for your help!

Hi Forum Gurus,

I played a fun tanky Gnomish Artificer in the olden days (3.5/Faerun setting) and really enjoyed the flavor and crunch.

I am looking to recreate a little of the flavor and fill the role of a party front-line fighter. I don't need to be min-maxed to the gills and I also don't have to be the primary damage dealer (we have a ranger/archer and a rogue on top of a support oracle).

The character concept and flavor is that of a older military vet who has a gift for developing clockwork toys for children. He improved his skills over the years and managed to graps some basic aspects of alchemy, which allowed him to create "life" in the form of a clockwork-ish homunculis. He takes improved familiar at lvl 7 to take a clockwork familiar, which resembles a small ball with crab legs and a stinger (instead of the listed bite for clockwork familiars. It also loses the flight in exchange for a climb speed.) His clockwork/magical experimentation has also granted him a "grafted" clockwork arm (vestigal arm).

The cunch goal is to get a "mounted" character who rides his familiar (mauler) when convenient, and who'se familiar rides HIM when otherwise inconvenient. Since the familiar gets the same feats (Fighter Eldritch Guardian Archetype), it could contribute reasonable damage from his shoulder with reach-evolution stinger (Alch Homunculist Archytpe). He fights with a 2H weapon and a shield, using the vestigal arm to get the 2H strength bonus on a reach weapon (maybe a lance?) that also lets him in the future utilize combat reflexes to his advantage. He takes mutagen to get a combat boost, but it won't last long due to alch 4.

I threw together this idea and I feel it is zany enough to be fun and I just want to tinker a little with the crunch, so suggestions are welcome. I don't know where I want to take it, but we are starting at lvl 8. Note: I pruned the statblock info down to just the core concepts.

Thanks

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Carnige Cogwright
Gnome alchemist (homunculist) 4/fighter (eldritch guardian) 4 (Pathfinder Player Companion: Familiar Folio 7, 8, 11, Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 26)
CG Small humanoid (gnome)
Init +2; Senses low-light vision; Perception +13
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Defense
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AC 22, touch 13, flat-footed 20 (+6 armor, +2 Dex, +3 shield, +1 size)
hp 68 (8 HD; 4d8+4d10+20)
Fort +10, Ref +7, Will +2 (+1 vs. fear and mind-affecting effects.); +2 bonus vs. [language-dependant], glyph, symbol or writing-related spells
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Offense
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Speed 20 ft.
Melee +1 lucerne hammer +10/+5 (1d10+11)
Ranged bomb +11 (2d6+1 Fire)
Special Attacks bomb 5/day (2d6+1 fire, DC 13)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 8th; concentration +9)
1/day—arcane mark, comprehend languages, message, read magic
Alchemist (Homunculist) Extracts Prepared (CL 4th; concentration +5)
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Statistics
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Str 16, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 12

Base Atk +7; CMB +7; CMD 21

Feats Brew Potion, Improved Familiar, Mounted Combat, Power Attack, Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge, Throw Anything

Traits nirmathi militia

Skills Perception +13, Ride +12, Spellcraft +5, Use Magic Device +14; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception

Other Gear elven chain, +1 heavy wooden shield, +1 lucerne hammer[APG], 24,326 gp

You may run into trouble with carrying capacity.

Mule cords or any haul belt will help offset this. Additionally just playing a hunter will allow animal focus to strength. That may be worth a dip too or just be a hunter.

I welcome all feedback, but I don't particularly see how this comment relates to my request for alternative builds to achieve my listed goal.

Regarding your comment, who's carrying capacity are you referring to? As a dwarf, the encumbrance speed issue is a non-issue, and if you slap charger animal companion archetype on the boar, it also gets the same slow-and-steady effect. Therefore, encumbrance will not be an issue, even without mule cords or ant haul.

I have a PC who has a pretty specific idea of a character. Dwarven martial type, who rides a boar, and uses a dwarven waraxe and a shield.

How to make this the most effective way? I thought initially cavalier, with beast rider archetype, and if I so choose, house rule in that he can take the boar at level 4 (when small Beast Riders can take a boar) and ride it using the Undersized Mount Feat. Everything is ok so far.

But, the problem is, how to make it a viable damage source when he's using the sub-par sword/board option? I had considered the following (in no specific order):

Outflank
Pack Flanking (and granting it to the boar mount via a Nose Ring or a Saddle)
Wild Flanking
Menacing Weapon

I know these choice would also work on a two handed fighter, but he wants the shield, and this was the best option I thought of for generating damage for a sword/board fighter.

Using Wild Flanking, maximizing your damage reduction becomes necessary or you nickle-and-dime yourself/your mount down in health, so something like an Adamantium Fullplate would be ideal. Also, the Order of the Shield would allow you to convert lethal to non-lethal damage, providing effective DR to the Wild Flanking damage. But, both require heavy armor prof, and Beast Riders trade that away for better mount choices.

Does anyone have ideas on how to keep an all Cavalier build, with a Boar mount, using a Dwarven Waraxe + Shield, and yield decent damage? I want a flexible build, not a rocket lancer...something decent even when not on the mount.

Thanks

This aspect of Two Weapon Rend seems a bit vague. As it states, you only have to hit with your main and off hand weapon, but not specifically, your main and off hand attacks.

I think I am going to rule it as follows, within my own campaign, until there is some sort of official clarification:

If you TWF, you may choose which "off hand" weapons you use for each attack, as long as all take the associated penalties. You may not mix-and-match your main hand.

Then, you may trigger two weapon rend through Spiked Destroyer, if the following conditions occur:

Your main hand weapon hits.
Armor Spikes are used for at least one off-hand attack.
The free Spiked Destroyer attack occurs after said above Armor Spike off-hand attack.

Then, and only then, would a main hand hit combined with a Spiked Destroyer armor spike hit trigger two weapon rend.

Any feed back is welcome, but I think this is the ruling I will go with internally...this was all a theorycraft test for a player who wants to utilize said combo for his character.

Off hand weapons are only off-hand during a full attack in which you attack with extra attacks from the TWF feat. If you are not making a full-attack with extra off-hand attacks, you can alternate iterative attacks with no penalty, or take AoOs with any of the weapons you wield. This means that feats tat proc on a hit with an off-hand weapon can only apply from a normal full attack.

In the OP's scenario, the primary attack is the main-hand weapon, and the off-hand attack is the shield. The armor spike attack is a free attack that is made outside of the two-weapon fighting full attack. It takes no penalties from two-weapon fighting, and it does not benefit from any effects that proc on two weapon fighting.

Thank you for breaking your logic down so nicely. I would then have a follow up question and scenario.

In non-two-weapon-fighting, there is no off hand and you may mix and match as you wish. When you are two-weapon-fighting, can you mix and match your off hands, as you see fit? Example: Main hand longsword, 2 attacks, off hand shield, 1 attack, off hand armor spikes, 1 attack. (This is assuming you have improved TWF).

And, then, if the previous answer is a yes...would the armor spikes THEN count as an off hand weapon, during a potential Spiked Destroyer proc? They are in the "official" rotation for your TWF.

Or, for Spiked Destroyer, does it boil down to the fact that the free attack is just an attack, doesn't count at all towards main/off hand, and cannot proc rend at all, even if you have normal armor spike attacks in your TWO rotation?

Thanks again!

Bumping once, in hopes of an answer.

if your shield is your main hand attack and the spikes of the other hand the off hand. i don't think anything stops you from deciding to use your off hand weapon for this attack. same as nothing stop you from using an off hand weapon to strike with an attack of opertunity. (some would even say you gain full str as off hands attack are when you use a primery hand attack as well, but that is up to a difrent descusion)

You are misunderstanding the question:

Does the Spiked Destroyer free attack count as an "off hand" or a "main hand" for the purposes of triggering Two Weapon Rend. As stated previously in the thread...it's a free attack, at full BAB, with full STR. But it does not specify if it is an off hand or main hand.

No.

The off-hand does not exist, outside of the two-weapon fighting full attack action.

This is not that.

To help you understand, think of it, like an Attack of Opportunity.

Full BAB, and full strength.

Sorry to thread necro, but here's a very specific related question where the status as an "off hand" is important, outside the two weapon fighting full attack action.

Two Weapon Rend states that, if you hit with a main and off-hand, you may make a rend damage roll. But what if you are only attacking with one weapon (a shield bash, via shield slam) and make your spiked destroyer attack? Is it then "off hand"?

What if you are attacking with a shield slam and spiked armor, two-weapon fighting, and you MISS with your off-hand spiked armor strike, but you hit with your Spiked Destroyer attack...is it THEN valid to perform a rend?

Two Weapon Rend states you must hit with both main hand and off hand to trigger the rend. If you have a weapon, and armor spikes as off hand, it's clear how it functions.

What happens in the following scenario: You have a main hand weapon, off hand shield (with associated bash), and armor spikes. You have Shield Slam, Spiked Destroyer, and Two Weapon Rend.

You attack with your main hand, and MISS, then you follow up with a shield slam, hit, bull rush, and trigger spiked destroyer. Which you also hit. Is this sufficient to trigger two weapon rend?

I suspect it is not, but I haven't delved through all the rules yet. I did do a cursory search, and found nothing specifically related to these three feats.

Thanks for your input!

Are you saying that, by dipping one level in Monk of the Empty Hand, a fighter could apply any single weapon specific feat he has (Improved Crit, Weapon Focus, etc) to EVERY weapon with Martial Versatility? Or at least, every weapon within the light/one handed/two handed categories?

That seems broken...

So I've been considering revising my requirement for weapon agnostic and changing it to "mostly" weapon agnostic through the use of the Martial Versatility feat.

That would mean I would need to have the weapons be all in one weapon group. How does Martial Versatility function when selecting a weapon that's part of multiple weapon groups? Such as a Throwing Axe, Dagger, or Bardiche?

Also on a related topic, what weapon group is the Cutlass? It's landing in the light blades weapon group when I work on HeroLab but I can't find an official reference anywhere.

Great feedback! Thanks to everyone who has contributed!

For reference, the character would be topping out around 16-18, though that's a bit dependent on how the PCs play as he is an ally of the party and runs parallel to them in levels.

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From what I'm reading, weapon agnostic TWF really starts to suffer when the crit chains come into play, regardless on whether you are running double, twin, or sword and board styles. When you run TWF w/ an option other than the above 3, you suffer greatly and it is not because of a lack of weapon training (or similar skills) but instead of combat feats that are in and of themselves NOT weapon agnostic (crit chain, shield bashing chain, etc.)

It seems there is really no weapon-agnostic combat feat chain that can produce viable combat options and damage. I think that's a shame, but I understand that specialization is the name of the game for PF.

Is there any other way to become more flexible with feats, beyond the Brawler's "Martial Flexibility" class ability? I could see a PC investing in a few crit chain feats, as they require Critical Focus and not Imp Crit, and then use some variant of Martial Flexibility to take the appropriate imp-crit feat for the weapon currently being wielded. Could also use Martial Flexibility to swap in the appropriate weapon focus/spec for the currently wielded weapons...but by going brawler, you'd miss out on the weapon agnostic "weapon training" options of fighter archetypes (mobile fighter, two weapon fighter, etc).

Any one else have good ideas regarding viable weapon agnostic combat feats?

Thanks for the quick response, guys.

I had already considered the Slayer + Ranger Combat Styles options, and that might work quite well. I had also considered the Mobile Fighter, as that provides the ability to pseudo-full attack on the go, weapon-agnostic "weapon training"-esque class ability, etc.

A little more info (copied from another thread I made, which unfortunately gained no traction).

I intially envisioned him in 3.0/3.5 as a TWF fighter, back when there was no weapon training. The existance of which makes his build much less optimal than it was in the past, and even then it was more for flavor.

- TWF Character (whether STR or DEX is irrelavent)
- Uses primarily a longsword in main hand (family heirloom)
- Has a few other "situational weapons" which he totes around as a sort of go-to-armory. Things like a disruption light mace, merciful light hammer, returning handaxe, defending shortsword, etc.
- He has a gauntlet that grants the "Called" special attribute to up to 5 weapons, which are those in his "armory"
- In the original concept, when he was "done" with a weapon or needed a different one for a situation...he simply threw the unneeded one at a random target or dropped it, recalling it later with the Called property when necessary. This was made possible by the Throw Anything feat, which I'd like to keep if possible. If it also becomes semi-viable (through the use of such things as "Opening Volley" for example) that would be even cooler.
- He's moderately charismatic and intelligent, but slightly head-strong and reckless. Storyline NPC, so used 25 Point buy.

Of note is the fact that he does not fight in a vacuum. He has a dedicate cadre of bodyguards/lieutenants and they fight smoothly as a team. The other members are 1) Dwarven Barb/Fighter, 2) Paladin (Holy Tactician) 3) Archer Slayer (or ranger) 4) Tower-Shield Fighter (with bodyguard, in harm's way, etc).

So any additional feedback related to the expanded character concept is also appreciated!

Hi Paizo Forums!
I am looking for help finding a viable weapon agnostic TWF Build.

Requirements:
- no weapon specific feats, if possible (weapon focus, spec, etc)
- a martial theme (no, or little, rogue, bard, etc)
- 25 point buy (try not to dump int/char, if possible)

Any advice is welcome!

Thanks!

Hi Paizo Forum!!!

Long time reader, first time poster.
I need your help with an NPC that exists in my home-brew campaign.
I intially envisioned him in 3.0/3.5 as a TWF fighter, back when there was no weapon training. The existance of which makes his build much less optimal than it was in the past, and even then it was more for flavor.

Regardless, here is a quick overview of the crunchy bits I would like to see.
- TWF Character (STR or DEX is irrelavent)
- Has one "Signature Weapon",a longsword, which is tied to his family line (he's a noble)
- Has a few other "situational weapons" which he totes around as a sort of go-to-armory. Things like a disruption mace, merciful shortsword, etc.
- He has a gauntlet that grants the "Called" special attribute to up to 5 weapons, which are those in his "armory"
- In the original concept, when he was "done" with a weapon or needed a different one for a situation...he simply threw the unneeded one at a random target or dropped it, recalling it later with the Called property when necessary. This was made possible by the Throw Anything feat, which I'd like to keep if possible.
- He's moderately charismatic and intelligent, but slightly head-strong and reckless. He is a general of a royal military force and quite competant, if sometimes "too bold" as mentioned above. Being a complete dunce is not an option, and some leadership ability is to be expected. Seeing as he's a storyline centric NPC he works off 25 point buy.

Any suggested class combinations are welcome, though he's decidedly not a spell caster. I am not dead-set against classes with spells, but I am leaning strongly towards things like fighter, ranger, slayer, etc.

Of note is the fact that he does not fight in a vacuum. He has a dedicate cadre of bodyguards/lieutenants and they fight smoothly as a team. The other members are 1) Dwarven Barb/Fighter, 2) Paladin (Holy Tactician) 3) Archer Slayer 4) Tower-Shield Fighter (with bodyguard, in harm's way, etc).

Thanks for your help!