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The Unseen Engineers spell is suppose to speed up the crafting process of mundane Traps, but what am I rolling against at the end?

You conjure an invisible team of tiny engineers to construct a trap at alarming speed. Originating at your location, the team must remain within range of you or the spell ends. The engineers construct a mechanical trap of your choice. Construction takes a number of rounds equal to the trap’s challenge rating. The engineers must have the materials available. At the end of the construction time, use your Craft (traps) skill with a +5 bonus to determine the success of their work. If the engineers succeed, the trap is complete and the spell ends. If they fail, the materials are deposited at that location and the spell ends. If the spell’s duration ends before the trap is complete, the engineers automatically fail.

The engineers move at your base speed and can carry only materials required in the construction of the desired trap. They can’t attack in any way or be killed, and dissipate if they take 12 points of damage from area attacks (they get no saves against attacks).

https://aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Unseen%20Engineers


Hello,

I wanted to spit ball some ideas for herculean labors from the gods for my barbarian I am playing. In my campaign my character made a wager with Gorum to deal a certain amount of damage in a single round and he has completed that wager. Since the party has interacted with other gods I wanted to see if anyone had some ideas on what future labors can be from other gods. Currently I am thinking of Raetorgash. My character is prideful and I was thinking of a curse of pride. The Gorum wager had a goal to achieve, but this curse could be a test of endurance. Like my character deals with this curse until next level, or the curse acts like corruption. Other gods I have been thinking about that we dealt heavily with are Tsukiyo and Irori. For Irori I was thinking to go in the direction of perfection. My barbarian has a level dip of master of many styles monk and eldritch scapper sorcerer to get crane style and martial flexibility. As the campaign went on, for every failure I built my character to overcome these weaknesses. I am trying to think about a trial of perfection from Irori, but can't think of anything. Let me know what you guys think.


Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

I'd have to disagree w/Claxon and agree instead with Mysterious Stranger. While I get Claxon's point, the second sentence does seem to expand on the first as far as breathing in irritants, it specifically uses broad language saying "suffers no ill effects" in reference to natural, airborne contaminants. Under the Environment sections Mist or Fog reduces the distance of Perception checks; that's an ill effect due to contamination of the air by mist. My own ruling in my game would be that under the effect of an Ashen Path spell you ignore the penalty to Perception.

Your GM has already ruled however so that is how things will need to run from here on out in your game.

He could change his ruling depending on what the section talks about. It is why I made the thread. To see if there was something in the rules about it or if someone can make a compelling argument.

I would ask if the section says that mist and fog are ill effects or something along those lines. It seems like you are declaring it an ill effect from irritation or contamination due to lack of vision through the fog. Like I asked before, if you are out of the fog and can see 5ft in and not beyond that how are you suffering from a irritant or contamination?


Claxon wrote:

I disagree with Mysterious Stranger that the part about "ill effects of irritants and contaminants" allows for sight.

To me that sentence has to be taken in context with the previous sentence which is "You grant the creature touched the ability to breathe with ease air that is contaminated with ash, spores, smoke, dust, or the like". To me the line about "ill effects" has to do with breathing related issues nothing to do with sight.

If the spell didn't explicitly call out in the next sentence that it specifically allowed you to see through certain kinds of obstructions, I would say it never allows you to see through things. If the first two sentences regarding ill effects including sight, I would expect it to be worded differently to say something like "ill effects (including sight)".

And then going into the fact that ashen path explicitly states magical effects for vision, does imply mundane effects are excluded by RAW.

However, to be honest I think that's silly. Usually I think of things as being able to piece mundane effects not magical, and having it the other way around is odd to me.

RAW I think it's correct to not allow vision through mundane effects, but I don't personally feel it should be run that way.

My DM sided with my view and I agree with what you said. With this being the first time playing a character with disguise I noticed that some spells couldn't see through non-magical sources. Even trueseeing has a hard time with it.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:

Yes.

Mist can be harmful to someone who is sick or otherwise has trouble breathing.

I'm talking about a healthy adult. Like being in the fog on a foggy day. Is fog irritating the average person's eyes to impair their vision, or is fog vapors just obscuring sight past a person's natural view? The smoke from the smoke bomb say you can see 5ft into it, but smoke beyond 5ft is obscured.

I'm not trying to argue to argue, but I don't consider the obscurity of mundane smoke, fog, or mist as an irritant or contaminant. I would agree with your point if you couldn't see through the smoke at all, but you can see 5 ft into the smoke while being out of the smoke. When you are not in it how is it irritating or contaminating the character? That has to mean that the obscurity of vision is not due to an irritant or contaminant. I picture move as an obstacle like a wall of that makes sense.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:

You grant the creature touched the ability to breathe with ease air that is contaminated with ash, spores, smoke, dust, or the like. The creature suffers no ill effects from natural airborne irritants or contaminants and gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against magical effects that involve any of these contaminants. In addition, the creature can see through magical obscuring effects caused by dense ash, smoke, fog, or similar concealment up to a distance of 60 feet, although this spell does nothing to enhance sight in dark or shadowy conditions. You can cast this spell on multiple creatures, but if you do, divide the duration evenly among all the creatures you touch (to a minimum duration of 10 minutes per target).

The bolded part of the description specifically states it does.

So you see the obscured sight as an ill effect due to irritants and contaminants? Let me ask a question, if a party is in a naturally misty area would you still consider the mist to be an irritant or contaminant?


During our last session my character was in combat against the rest of the party. As a ninja my character threw a smoke bomb to conceal herself. The sorcerer cast Ashen Path on himself and the party's medium to see through the smoke. When read, Ashen Path it doesn't seem like it helps with seeing through mundane smoke, but only with magical smoke. The first part seems to be talking about breathing in smoke. Would a smoke cloud obscuring sight be considered an ill effect?

Ashen Path
Source Blood of the Ancients pg. 13
School transmutation; Level arcanist 2, cleric 2, druid 2, hunter 2, oracle 2, ranger 2, sorcerer 2, warpriest 2, wizard 2
Casting
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Effect
Range touch
Target living creature touched
Duration 10 minutes/level
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
Description
You grant the creature touched the ability to breathe with ease air that is contaminated with ash, spores, smoke, dust, or the like. The creature suffers no ill effects from natural airborne irritants or contaminants and gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against magical effects that involve any of these contaminants. In addition, the creature can see through magical obscuring effects caused by dense ash, smoke, fog, or similar concealment up to a distance of 60 feet, although this spell does nothing to enhance sight in dark or shadowy conditions. You can cast this spell on multiple creatures, but if you do, divide the duration evenly among all the creatures you touch (to a minimum duration of 10 minutes per target).

https://aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Ashen%20Path


I am planning to have my greenwood/Wyroot staff (I had my DM homebrew a greenwood/Wyroot spliced staff with living steel nuggets in it) crafted into a homunculus and the template doesn't say you can you special materials. My plan was to have a druid help with Wood shape with forming the homunculus and a Smith to make the skeletal system out of the nuggets. I just don't know if they kept there properties after construction. It is supposed to be small sized. Does anyone know how this works?