Bitter-Lily's page

As to slings... regular slings are free, are you raising their price to a SP?

Ooops! I was looking at the staff sling. 1/10th of nothing is still nothing.

As to Bows, since it seems like most people agree that they are generally speaking the absolute best ranged martial weapons for most circumstances, I question the sense of dropping its price down by a factor of 10. While if you really feel like it costs too much I don't know it would be that big to cut the price in half.

If you're going to make a bow that is 1/10 the given bow's price, I'd suggest you designate a Hunters Shortbow and make it 1/10 the price (still martial, but you might give it to certain NPCs or even classes as a proficient weapon) but drop its damage die by 1 step, and probably its deadly die by a step. I'd also consider dropping its range increment by 10' to keep it separate. Gives you something that can represent the cheap bow you might see out made out in the wilderness quickly, or owned by poor rural populace that is primarily using it to hunt game, rather than a full weapon of defense/offense. Otherwise, if you make the ranged weapon that has been already given the biggest edge in most circumstances, also the cheapest weapon, you are really pulling the rug out from under any other ranged weapons and potential flavor. (if you're fine, or even prefer that, then go away, but realize that was your prerogative)

What my proposal does is to put compound bows into the price league of crossbows, when they're better weapons. Thing is, they're martial weapons while crossbows are simple weapons, so of course martial classes will get an advantage over STR-based non-martials (however many there may be). I don't have a problem with that. Do you really have one?

As for simple bows, compare the RW cost of forging a sword to that of making a bow. That's more like 10:1 the other way! But all that my proposed rule does is to lower the bow pricing to that of swords. And given that you can't add a bonus to a bow's damage, but can to a sword's, I don't understand why bows "ought" to cost ten times more.

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So yes, I don't know that cutting the cost of any general category in half, especially something like consumables is going to have a giant impact....

Thanks for the reassurance! I'll think about batch crafting.

I'd like to note that I have a Chiurgeon in my game who's leveled up from 1 to 3. So far the player is happy with the class. Now I think he invested some loot in formulas, and has certainly gone the feat route to shock me with his abilty to Treat Wounds. So sure, he's spent a lot of non-class-granted resources on being a non-magical party healer.

The only change to the rules that I made was that Elixers of Life get the same bonuses as healing potions, so the Minor one restores 1d6+1 HP. That +1 does add up, and prevents the utter disappointment at getting only 1 HP back. As for the higher-level elixers, it will have an even bigger impact. So this may be the change that the OP is looking for.

Meanwhile, in addition to Elixers, my Chiurgeon has always got bombs around, and hopefully also the right oddity off the alchemical lists that the party needs. I just introduced an NPC Rogue/Poisoner to the party--who is frustrated at only being able to make Level 1 poisons. The chiurgeon is chortling and looking forward to helping her out with UN-healing! And when it comes to Recalling Knowledge, it's hard to beat an Intelligence-based class. So the player is happy with the PC's class mostly because of the wide range of participation the PC can make, not just with how well the class does at healing.

The thing is, it seems like Bombers & Mutagenicists don't dish out the same damage as comparable damage-dealing classes, either. I want to thank Nonat1s for an excellent YouTube video explaining how the proper focus of the Alchemist class in general is to be defocused, prepared for a bit of just about anything.

Thank you for bringing this up, Kekkres. I want to try out the following (untested) rule:

Characters gain a proficiency increase or training in one Lore Skill with every odd level, starting at 3rd level.

GMs may encourage or even require players to make this purchase relevant to the game. (Characters may train in a lore about a key monster they faced earlier without question; they’ve been motivated to research it, after all. But if they have Alcohol or Fishing Lore and have been spending time in bars or near bodies of water, increasing their training proficiency also seems like an obvious possibility – and yes, this will probably earn them more money in downtime than the monster choice.) Characters may not raise a Lore skill to Master before 7th level, nor to Legendary before 15th.

Rationale: It’s quite reasonable that grizzled, high-level adventurers would have a wide array of Lore Skills they had trained in, or be absolutely Legendary at the mundane work they do during downtime. But players are rarely going to put their precious skill increases into Lores otherwise.

Impact???

1) I'm considering cutting the prices for slings & bows (but not crossbows) down to one-tenth of RAW prices.

Yes, slings & simple bows would be priced in sp not gp--and be comparable to most other weapons. Compound bows would cost one-digit gp and be ranked among other complex weapons. Note that launchers count as crossbows.

Honestly, did I miss an official errata on this?

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2) I also want to cut the price of all consumables in half. Round any odd prices up.

This should make consumables better afforded, both for purchase and for use if found in loot.

Note that in a separate thread I suggest letting Crafters create an item for no more than half-price, so with this change too, PCs who craft consumables would be able to make them for 1/4 RAW price in 4 Downtime days, or even less if they spend more time. They also could craft consumables for 1/4 RAW price in exploration mode, although that would take a week and no additional time would be allowed.

What do you all think?

Thanks for this thread; it's helped me clarify my distaste for the current Crafting economy. I've posted my own pair of solutions in a separate thread, just because it's so long.

I'm deeply troubled by the PF2e economy; I want my game worlds to make sense! So I'm considering the following two homebrew changes to the game.

1) Crafting items never costs more than half of the normal price; extra days in Downtime reduces that price.

Characters crafting things in Downtime must make a down-payment of half of the price, as usual. They roll after 4 days to make the item, but if they are satisfied, they make the item for that half-price, not another half-price. Every Downtime day that they work past the four-day minimum essentially substitutes labor for the cost of components, and brings down the final cost of the item. Thus someone can spend a month scrounging for bits & pieces, and end up getting to keep most or all of the down-payment they originally made. Someone who stops after 4 days may well have included hired hands in the price they pay.

RATIONALE: The RAW economy is broken. Shop-owners likely will want to take a 100% mark-up for their time & skills in selling the item, not to mention the over-head of maintaining a shop. Therefore, they will rarely pay more than half-value for crafted items. The crafters supplying them must be able to make money themselves, which they can do by spending more than the 4 days.

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2) PCs in exploration mode may spend a week rather than 4 days making the roll to craft an item. And they may not then spend more time. They must of course have field tools, and the DC on the crafting check is one level higher.

So field-crafting something always costs half the normal price.

RATIONALE: There really is a lot of unadventurous time over the course of an exploration day. Spending it crafting something makes a lot of sense. Especially for consumables!

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My BIG QUESTION is the probable impact on the game!

Is there a lot of difference in what characters can make per day of Downtime with this rule, compared to what they can make by the generic rules? (Assuming they're selling to a shop for half-price. Of course, if they can do research and identify a shopper with a strong need for the product, and then use Diplomacy to get better than half-price -- I'd welcome that.)

And will both these changes to the PC economy lead to insanely powerful PCs? Let me break the impact into three parts --
a) What will this likely do to the power level up to 6th level?
b) How about 7th to 14th?
b) What about 15th & beyond?

Please note that I'm posting in a separate thread a different change to the economy: cutting the price of consumables in half. So with this change here you'd make them for one-quarter RAW price in 4 days of Downtime, or a week in exploration mode.

I appreciate your input a great deal. Thank you!