Bipeo's page

My experience with the summoner is that you are able to do a bunch of different things, but you're going to do them pretty poorly. You don't fight well, you don't cast well. You can't tank well because one of your "sides" will always be worse AC or save than the other.

Anytime something is needed of the party, there's a massive chance that someone else on the team is already going to be specialized in whatever that thing is and having the summoner do it would actively be a worse choice.

The staff nexus wizard thesis allows you to upgrade your staff to another type of staff while retaining the original spells you picked for it.

Are you then able to upgrade the staff later and retain those spells?

For example: if my makeshift staff has ray of frost and animate dead, I am able to upgrade it to a staff of necromancy which adds grim tendrils etc, but I retain animate dead and ray of frost.

Could I then, at a later level, upgrade my staff of necromancy to a greater staff of necromancy, retaining the animate dead? Or will I have to go buy a greater staff of necromancy and lose access to those staff spells I picked at first level?

Bipeo wrote:

Area effects will always deal the worst damage to you and the sigil makes it "obvious" to sentient creatures that you're linked so they'll swing their swords at whoever looks easiest to hit.

So you essentially take the worst AC and worst saving throws between you and your eidolon. And you're twice as likely to be standing in a place where an aoe is going to come down.

In my opinion, it's made on purpose.

I'm pretty sure balancing the Summoner has been a headache for Paizo. If the Eidolon is too weak, it doesn't fulfill the fantasy of the super strong creature. On the other side, the Summoner can hardly be too weak, as there are tons of things included by default on the chassis of every class and having a class without these things would feel very weird. Also, the Summoner has to cast spell to feel like a PF1 Summoner.
So they included this liability to have more power for the Eidolon and the Summoner. Removing it would mean nerfing something else, and I don't think there is anything you can nerf on either the Summoner or the Eidolon without losing too much efficiency on something very important for the player.

The very concept of a class that gives you 2 powerful creatures is extremely strong. If we follow the rules for monsters, it would mean that both creatures should be 2 levels under other PCs. That would make the Eidolon a useless martial. That's why adding liabilities was a necessity to give a proper power level to the Eidolon.

But you're not really getting 2 creatures. For all intents and purposes you have 1 creature that can be in two places at once. Which honestly feels like a drawback as opposed to a boon because you have twice the hitbox with very little benefit.

I remember in the playtest, my group got into a fight and the engagement broke into two littler fights about 30 feet away.
"Perfect" I thought "as a Summoner,I'll send my dragon to one side and I'll cast at the guys at the other side.

Well, what actually happened was my hitpoints were now just exposed to both groups for no reason.
Because my actions were shared, I couldn't meaningfully fight on both sides. I had to pick one. Which I could just do as any other class.
BUT monsters from both sides could still attack me whenever they wanted. And if I was together, they could AOE me where I'd have disadvantage.

You can kind of mitigate the downside of being in two places at once by using Meld into Eidolon, but then you lose access to your spells and items and at that point you're just playing a much worse fighter.

What was my favorite class in pathfinder 1 feels very underpowered here.

It seems to essentially boil down to getting one extra action per turn at the expense of always taking the worst result on incoming attacks.

Area effects will always deal the worst damage to you and the sigil makes it "obvious" to sentient creatures that you're linked so they'll swing their swords at whoever looks easiest to hit.

So you essentially take the worst AC and worst saving throws between you and your eidolon. And you're twice as likely to be standing in a place where an aoe is going to come down.

All of this to get an extra attack that even scales proficiency really badly.

I dont see where the power is coming from that is justifying losing standard spellcasting.

I love the flavor on this class but mechanically I just don't know what I'm supposed to be doing here.

things I said

So I ended up switching to dragon summoner at the last minute because the GM didn't like my backstory for phantom.

The session ran short so I had only a little bit of experience with it.

The good:
With "act together" I basically had a dedicated "I flank it" action.
Boost eidolon and shield make sure you're never wondering what to do with remaining actions.
Having my eidolon assist knowledge checks and rolling its own perception is awesome, though maybe unintended.

The bad:
I absolutely did not want to cast any slotted spells. I may as well have 0 spell slots because with only 2 to burn, I'd need to be in a real tough spot to waste one.
Breath weapon seemed like a lackluster choice. For 2 actions I could go for an electric arc or a telekinetic projectile. Never compelled to use it.

my expectation is that it will be terrible mechanically.
I'll post the problems I foresee conceptually now and then the actual experience later.

The problems I foresee:
>The phantom's reaction will mostly be a dead ability. I won't be able to keep up with the phantom without making myself useless.

>phantom not having AOO or any access to it is gonna suck. Enemies will just walk around him to get a lower AC gate to my HP. And since the reaction requires him to be adjacent to me, I'll only be able to pull that off every blue moon.

>low spell slot count is gonna suck. I'm already prerecording myself saying "I cast telekinetic projectile" since thats all I'll be doing 90% of fights.

_____

What I'm looking forward to:

>RP will be really cool. My phantom is a lich whose phylactery was broken and he latched onto this kid as a last ditch effort to keep from being judged by pharasma and he's trying to get his power back to get revenge. Thats gonna be cool.

>basically having advantage on every skill check. "Oh did I not find anything in this room? Luckily my eidolon also uses perception"

>taking the animate dead spell. I've been wanting to try that out and having an eidolon on top kinda gets close to that minion master vibe necromancer has traditionally had.

But would you then be later upgrade it again when you get higher level?

Say I have my makeshift staff with:
Cantrip Ray of Frost
1st Animate dead

and I turn it into a staff of necromancy. now it has
Cantrip chill touch, ray of frost
1st grim tendrils, ray of enfeeblement, animate dead
2nd deafness, gentle repose

Can I later turn that into a greater staff of necromancy to have
Cantrip chill touch, ray of frost
1st grim tendrils, ray of enfeeblement, animate dead
2nd deafness, gentle repose
3rd blindness, vampiric touch
4th grim tendrils, vampiric touch

Or am I stuck with needing to find a separate greater staff on necromancy that just has

Cantrip chill touch
1st grim tendrils, ray of enfeeblement
2nd deafness, gentle repose
3rd blindness, vampiric touch
4th grim tendrils, vampiric touch

and my old staff is just obsolete and I don't get to use animate dead and ray of frost anymore?

The Staff Nexus arcane thesis says that you can upgrade your makeshift staff to any other type of staff by spending the appropriate cost and then it gains the two spells you chose in the beginning.

Does the staff it turns into gain charges normally for the type of staff it is? and can you upgrade that one later to bring your chosen spells along?

Or is it that once you upgrade it, that's it and once you get a higher level staff the first one is just obsolete?