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Looking more closely at the rules to add PC classes to monsters, I saw this line:

"The first step of this process is to modify the creature's ability scores. Creatures with class levels receive +4, +4, +2, +2, +0, and –2 adjustments to their ability scores, assigned in a manner that enhances their class abilities."

So if I were to add a level of Barbarian to a Hill Giant I would likely be increasing it's strength by 4 and then giving it the benefits of the class. According to the rules, this would increase its CR by 1. I've never really bothered with giving PC class levels to monsters before, so mostly I'm just fishing for feedback on people's experiences with doing so and how that may potentially change encounters.

In the above example, it seems like adding a synergistic class like Barbarian to a big ol' bruiser like the Hill Giant would likely increase it's CR by more than 1.

What about a Dragon? Say I add a level of Sorcerer to a Dragon. It's casting level effectively increases by one, but it would also benefit from the attribute increase. How does this advantage work in play?


Currently running through a campaign in which the PCs lands are being invaded by an Eastern/Oriental inspired nation. Decided to make the majority of their arcane casters specialized in the Elemental schools of wizardry, and all their somatic components are martial arts inspired.

It's been fun describing some of the wizards actions that the PCs have encountered, as their enemies are slamming their feet down into the ground to cause pillars of flame to appear and clapping their hands together to cause rocks to rain down on the PCs.


Gilfalas wrote:
Binjelli wrote:

Thanks for the quick replies.

I had totally forgotten about the somatic components needing a free hand.

I'm assuming then, even with Still spell, there's the same problem with material components (sans the Eschew Materials feat)?

I believe material components are manipulated with the 'free hand' when casting and do not require another hand to utilize.

That... would make sense.

Material components don't even cross my mind outside of the expensive components. And given the following:

PRD wrote:
To cast a spell, you must be able to speak (if the spell has a verbal component), gesture (if it has a somatic component), and manipulate the material components or focus (if any). Additionally, you must concentrate to cast a spell.

It would seem that without Eschew Materials a wizard with Still Spell would still require some means of manipulating the material components of certain spells.


Thanks for the quick replies.

I had totally forgotten about the somatic components needing a free hand.

I'm assuming then, even with Still spell, there's the same problem with material components (sans the Eschew Materials feat)?


Hi folks! First time posting.

So, I'm aware that it's not possible to use multiple metamagic rods to enhance a single spell, however what I'm not clear on is whether or not you can use them separately to modify a quickened spell.

Say that I have a Metamagic Rod of Empower and one of Quicken. I know that I cannot use both to cast an Empowered, Quickened Fireball. But could I:

Cast an Empowered Fireball (Standard Action) then cast a Quickened Fireball (Swift) assuming I'm holding a rod in each hand?

Can I cast an Empowered Fireball using the appropriate rod, then cast a Quickened Persistent Fireball assuming that I have the Quicken Spell feat and am holding a Persistent Metamagic Rod?

My gut feeling is that yes, this is possible, but I'd like some clarification.