Belic's page

My interpretation was...

Two dice for first attack to determine whether I hit (GWotC) or not, and if I do hit, then I would get a cleave attack but with only one dice to determine whether I hit or not.

My "standard Action" is to make a single attack.....

How do these two feats interact? Use two die for initial attack and if I hit, I get a second attack against an adjacent enemy (one die only this time) plus a -2 AC penalty?

How do these two feats interact? Use two die for initial attack and if I hit, I get a second attack against an adjacent enemy (one die only this time) plus a -2 AC penalty?

Can I use a bucker (and actually gain an AC benefit) while wielding a large dorn-dergar??

So a "Large" Dorn-Dergar is OK since DD Master makes it a one handed weapon so my dwarf can wield it two handed (without the Titan Fighter level). One size category bigger applies a -2 attack penalty. We are NOT playing any particular campaign setting (complete homebrew everything) so my DM/GM is allowing the Giant-Blooded trait since in this scenario it's only reducing the attack penalty by 1. Large DD does 2d8 dmg, with impact enchantment it'll do 3d8, with enlarge it'll go up to 4d8, vital strike doubles the die.

With no mechanism in the game for my dwarven warpriest to get up to an actual huge dorn-dergar???

Ah, I see your problem. You can wield any one-handed weapon that’s *one* size category larger than your normal as a two-handed weapon with a -2 penalty. You cannot wield a one-handed weapon that’s *more than one* size category larger than your normal at all.

CRB page 144 wrote:

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.

Giant Weapon Wielder (Ex)

Huge one handed DD (due to DD Master feat) becomes large two handed DD, and Giant weapon wielder lets me wield a two handed large weapon. -4 attack penalty (-2 large + -2 for huge), which giant blood trait cuts in half. -2 attack penalty for GWW (were at -4 total now), Irongrip gauntlets reduces penalty by two. Total attack penalty is -2.
Does this work? I misunderstood the light becomes one handed becomes two handed conundrum as weapon size increases.
Plus, impact enchantment bumps damage to gigantic. Enlarge self/person... colossal dmg???

Belic wrote:

Combining 1 level of fighter/Titan Fighter with the “Giant Blood” trait with the Dorn-Dergar Master feat... my dwarven warpriest (level 8 total) is able to wield a huge DD with Impact at a -2 attack penalty (8d8 with vital strike) or the same DD BUT Gargantuan at a -3 attack penalty (12d8 with VS).

Can you walk me through how you’re getting all these size increases? Dorn-Dergar Master doesn’t stack with Titan Fighter for this purpose. And I’m not sure where the “Gargantuan” is coming from at all.

Titan Fighter specifically only allows you to

Quote:

wield two-handed melee weapons intended for creatures one size category larger than himself, treating them as two-handed weapons.

DD Master turns the DD into a one handed weapon. You can wield any one handed weapon that’s larger than your normal as a 2 handed with -2 attack penalty per size category. Giant blooded trait cuts this penalty in half. Large -2, huge -4 gigantic -6 (but the trait makes this -3). Impact enchanted on the DD bumps up the damage again but no additional penalty to hit. The gigantic DD does 4d8, with impact it does 6d8, vital strike doubles the die to 12d8

If I min/max this character any more, I’ll get kicked out!! I’ll add in wands of enlarged self/ person until I can cast righteous might to give myself one more damage boost. Devastating Strike & Power Attack/ Furious Focus are on my list, along with a couple others.

The Dorn-Dergar is easier to “pull off” / plausible with my dwarven warpriest, plus it give me reach which I wouldn’t get with either the butchers axe or split blade sword.

Plus I get free proficiency with the DD since it’s Dwarven.

Combining 1 level of fighter/Titan Fighter with the “Giant Blood” trait with the Dorn-Dergar Master feat... my dwarven warpriest (level 8 total) is able to wield a huge DD with Impact at a -2 attack penalty (8d8 with vital strike) or the same DD BUT Gargantuan at a -3 attack penalty (12d8 with VS).
Greater weapon of the chosen gives me two shots at hitting to hopefully counter the -3 to hit penalty.

No it’s not quite as good as you think. You don’t get any additional benefit once the number of extra dice you are adding from VS exceeds three. The MAXIMUM amount of additional damage you can do is +6. Improved Vital Strike wouldn’t do anything to the Devastating Strike damage if you’re already doing 3d6 base before Vital Striking.

I read someone else’s interpretation of it as +2 for VS, +4 for IVS and +6 for GVS. That’s where the +6 maximum came from... +6 PER die, not +6 extra damage overall. The feat could have been way better worded to remove ambiguity.

So how long is a large dorn-dergar? Being a medium creature, my reach is 10’, lunge take it to ‘15. If I “enlarge self/person” myself to “large”, my normal threat range is 10’(?), reach takes it to 15’(?), lunge takes it to 20’(?).

If I take the “mighty frame feat”, could I wield a “huge” DD (two-handed, with DD Mastery)? Enchanted with Impact (gigantic dmg) and if enlarged goes to “titanic”(?)????

Does the “Devastating Strike” feat work as well as I’m thinking it will? Wielding the large DD, my current damage is 6d6+8 (with VS). DS would add +6 now and really take off once I get improved VS and greater??

Depends on your campaign and your overall build. Dorn-Dergar Master requires BAB +4 and Two-Weapon Fighting. So a warpriest couldn't get DDM until 6th level at the earliest. TWF, in turn, requires a Dex of 15.

We started our characters for this campaign at level 5, so even with that in mind, my character could have just used a medium sized DD for one level until meeting the requirements to wield his heirloom DD...

So with the DD mastery feat, Do I still need a level of Titan Fighter ???

--apparently not. I replaced the level of Titan Fighter with the two feats (TWF and DD Master) and I seem to be at the same point. I'm currently at a -1 penalty to attack rolls due to the weapon being over sized.

So now the question is, since my Warpriest is kinda Feat limited, which is better? One level of Titan Fighter OR spending two feats???

Dorn Dergar Master feat lets you wield a Dorn Dergar as a one handed weapon.

In theory, that would allow you to wield an oversized Dorn Dergar as a two-handed weapon.

Thanks Claxon. I'd seen the "mastery" feat but didn't think it would help me since I had no intention of wielding the DD single handed. Hadn't occurred to me about the size difference making this feat super useful.. I hate I have to pick up TWF but.....

Trait = Giant Blooded

There is a trait that cuts the penalty in half. There are gauntlets that reduce that penalty by 2.

You can get the -4 down to 0

I'd be very interested in the name of either if you know it. I can not seem to find either of them.

YAPCG is allowing it!! But it is imposing a -4 weapon/wielder size penalty. Is this expected with only a single level in Titan Fighter?

It looks legit.. -2 for inappropriate sized, and and additional -2 for the DD being 2handed

ok... thank you.
So I can wield a (medium) Dorn-Dergar enchanted with Impact (large dmg) and enlarge person myself to get to huge damage, but I can't start with a large Dorn-Dergar and get to gigantic damage.... would have been awesome!!

Also, I noticed the Monkey grip feat would have made this possible but it didn't make the jump from 3.5 to Pathfinder... bummer.

Can my dwarven warpriest wield a Large Dorn-Dergar two-handed with the -2 attack penalty? YAPCG isn't allowing it and when it blocks something I begin to question whether I've misinterpreted the rules.

Assuming I can, what is the range of my reach? I am unable to verify whether the range of a reach weapon is based on the size of the weapon or the size of the wielder.

Thank you in advanced.

It’s very frustrating that being able to throw a warhammer without the -4 penalty is damn near impossible (besides enchanting the hammer itself). So many feats that come close, but miss. ‘Throw Anything” only works on improvised weapons, “Throw Hammer” appears to only work on light hammers. I see several magic items (Hammer of Thunderbolts and Dwarven Thrower) that both have the returning ability, but don’t convey a way to throw it without the -4 Penalty. “Holy Ice Weapon” (spell) could create a warhammer, AND gain the returning ability, but not the ability to throw it !!!!

Could it be argued, that a standard warhammer, which is obviously not designed to be thrown, would be considered an improvised THROWING weapon, as is anything not designed to be thrown (i.e. no range increment listed in the book), and thus affected by the “Throw Anything” feat???

If there’s something I’m missing please enlighten me... My deity is Torag, so I’m not interested in other “similar” warhammer type/style weapons, just warhammers.

All the magic items that add bonuses to thrown weapons (mostly belts), don’t actually convey the ability to throw weapons that don’t have a range increment.

Just looking for a simple way to get around the -4 penalty on throwing my warhammer without having to enchant it with the throwing ability.

I would suspect that my “forge” hammer would be considered an “improvised weapon” and could fall under the “throw anything” feat...

I’m honestly not seeing many options other than enchanting the warhamner with the Thrown ability... returning is easy, lots of mechanics to get the hammer back to me, just very limited ways to get around the -4 to hit penalty without having the thrown enchant.

as a worshipper of Torag, would I have access to the Magic domain/blessing ?
Torah’s: Domains Artifice, Earth, Good, Law, Protection

FYI, you’re responses are awesome and I really appreciate your input!!!

I was wanting to recreate the “Hammer of Moradin” style of character within the Pathfinder world... say a “Hammer of Torag”. Where any war hammer I pick up “gains” the throwing and returning abilities. I’d like to avoid any specific weapon enchants and instead use feats and other slotted magic items.

My character is already proficient with War Hammers , so is the best way to get around the -4 penalty to hit, if I throw my hammer, is to take the “Throw Anything” feat?
I was considering Quick Draw and a Blinkback Belt with War Hammers...

My character is already proficient with War Hammers , so is the best way to get around the -4 penalty to hit, if I throw my hammer, is to take the “Throw Anything” feat?
I was considering Quick Draw and a Blinkback Belt with War Hammers...

If I confirm critical the same target multiple times, using my Bleeding Critical feat, the target takes no bleed damage immediately, but on it's next turn would take 2d6 PER confirmed critical (e.g. 3 confirmed crit's would cause 6d6 bleed damage)?

Please advise.

So how do you handle cumulative damage from multiple Bleeding Critical hits since they do stack?

Do I roll 2d6 each round for every prior confirmed critical and add them together (2d6+2d6+2d6+...), or

Do I take the highest two results each round (max of 12 points)?
i.e. after two stacking Bleeding Criticals: 1d6=3 & 1d6=5, 1d6=4 & 1d6=1, bleeding damage would be 5+4, the two highest d6's rolled.

PFCRB Page 184

"Critical Hits: When you make an attack roll and get a natural 20 (the d20 shows 20), you hit regardless of your target’s Armor Class, and you have scored a “threat,” meaning the hit might be a critical hit (or “crit”)."

Does the "20" in the definition become "19-20" or "17-20" if the critical threat of your weapon is no longer the standard "20"? Does an initial roll within the critical threat range of your weapon guarantee the hit, "regardless of your target’s Armor Class"???

Greater magic weapon gives +1/4 caster levels, so you'll need CL16 for +4 weapons and CL20 for +5. I'm not sure where you're getting 13 and 17 from.

Level 1-4 = +1

Isn't level 13 the minimum level required to produce a Wand of Greater Magic Weapon +4, and isn't level 17 the minimum for a +5... or does it mean:

Level 0-3 = +0
Level 4-7 = +1
Level 8-11 = +2
Level 12-15 = +3
Level 16-19 = +4
Level 20+ = +5

This is the main reason I asked the question.

If I wanted a Wand of Greater Magic Weapon, it would cost me:
+4: Level 3 Arcane Spell X 13th level Wizard X 750gp... 29,250gp
+5: Level 3 Arcane Spell X 17th level Wizard X 750gp... 38,250gp

Am I doing the math correctly?

Not many abilities allow you to up your total CL. Varisian Tattoo and Spell Specialization allow you to choose one school and cast that at plus 1 caster level and one spell at 2 caster levels higher, respectively.

Thanks Syries, I'll ask my GM if he's allowing tattoo's!

Orange Prism Ioun Stone

This is the first thing that comes to my mind, but it will cost you 30,000gp.

ouch!!! their really proud of that one aren't they???

Besides actual leveling....

So my Ranger has an effective caster level of 3 lower that my character level. Taking the "Magical Knack" trait, brings it up to only 1 lower than my level. What other item/tricks can raise me effective caster level?

So if I confirmed a critical hit with my first shot (Manyshot). I would calculate the damage on the first arrow as a confirmed critical and the damage on the second arrow as if it had been an unconfirmed critical?

I guessing that the damage from the delinquency gloves would NOT "double" with a confirmed critical? It would act more like the "flame" enchantment.

The deliquescent gloves don't sound like they were intended for ranged weapons. Are we sure that their bonus would work on my bolts?

With the nerfing of BoFA, what are your suggestions as a replacement for a Heavy Crossbow wielding Ranger?

I’d like to thank everyone for your input. Your comments echo what i was thinking. It’s not worth (typically) giving up my entire first round, just to buff my x-bow, but if given the chance to prepare prior to the battle starting, then it’s a no brained...

You just cast it before you know combat will begin. You don't need to have it in every combat, just think of it as an auxiliary buff.

Also, Bracers of Falcon's Aim is nerfed to once per day for 1 minute, so it's not as good or useful as it once was.

I wasn't aware of the "nerf", so thank you!!! :(

When I first read the description on Gravity Bow, I thought it sounded great. I'm running a ranger, with Crossbow Mastery, wielding a heavy crossbow of speed. However, I'm not sure my initial assessment was accurate. So I thought I'd get the opinion of the masses....

Standard heavy crossbow damage is 1d10 (average damage of 5). With Gravity Bow, damage bumps up to 2d8 (average of d4+d4=8) although there is debate concerning 2 die verses 1 die would output (on average) slightly higher numbers....

The problem I'm trying to overcome is the fact that casting it (a standard action) means I lose my entire first round of combat. 15th level Ranger, rapid shot & "speed" nets me 5 attacks/rnd. Typical combat only last 2-3 rounds (too many players....) and the spell expires before our next combat starts. Even with a Wand of GB so I'm not burning my spell slots, that still a lot of damage I'm giving up just to get 3 extra damage (on average) times 5 shots.

Even taking "critical multipliers" (x3 with Bracers/Falcon) into consideration, is it worth burning my first round of combat to get this spell off? I can see if I have to move to get into range or line of sight, then move and cast, but if I don't have to re-position, is it worth the cost?

So, did Crossbow Mastery make Repeating Heavy Crossbows obsolete?

It seems to me that Crossbow Mastery has made Repeating Crossbows obsolete. Crossbow Mastery gives me the same # of shots per round as if i was firing a bow. At 15th level, I get 3 attacks/shots. I’ve seen whole debate threads concerning weather rapid reload “functions” on Repeating Crossbows or not. My question is, do i still get an extra shot from Rapid Fire (i.e. 4 per round), or is my “extra” shot somehow superseded by the line “as many shots per round as if you were firing a bow”?