Eric Hinkle wrote:

Another rumor I erad is that Wotsy means to stop any and all sale of their books through online stores. No more D&D on Amazon, Noble Knight, etc. Can anyone verify this rumor? It sounds nuts to me, even for Wotsy.

There is NO way they can legally do that. They do not own those physical books anymore. If they do that, they might as well order EVERYONE to turn in their older-edition books (and Charleton Heston's already voiced my opinion on that ;)) The only reason they could pull such a takedown order is if they found one of the books to be legally actionable, and even then, it would most likely be the stores themselves taking it down to avoid prosecution or a legal action (in much the same way that the infamous Vanessa Williams-loses-her-Miss-America-Crown-Centerfold issue of Penthouse from IIRC '84 is forbidden to be sold in the US, because of a 15-year-old Traci Lords doing a pictorial).

Even WotC would not be that stupid.

If you are talking about used titles, you would be correct. But the current situation appears to be about their new releases, which they can most certainly restrict simply by limiting their distribution channels. Would it be smart to do so? Obviously as we have seen from this latest incident "smart" does not generally come into the equation in regard to their decision making.

Hey Paizo folks. Can someone tell me when Paizo got notice by WotC of the PDFs being pulled? Some joker over on the Gencon forms is saying that "for all we know Paizo may have dropped the ball and know about "this" for a month". I'm pretty confident Paizo just found out yesterday.

I'd like to shut him up!

The truth never shuts up a troll. They have immunity to reason and common sense.

I'd say it's something in the water, but how does Paizo, also based in the same general area, keep from doing the same thing? :)

Bottled water imported from France?

Bardsandsages wrote:

lol

Just saw this on RPGNOW's front page.

To celebrate White Wolf's continuing devotion to PDF products, we'd like to offer all of our fans a one-time 10% discount on their next purchase of any White Wolf PDF titles through RPGNow.com. Simply enter the coupon code wwlovesyou to receive your discount! Also, White Wolf is offering a FREE download of the Exalted Second Edition rulebook! Both offers expire by midnight (EST) on Sunday, April 12th.

*reaches for credit card*

Got a link, I'm looking for it and I can't find it.

It was on the front page at rpgnow.com. Once of the rotating message ads on the front page.

http://www.rpgnow.com/index.php?manufacturers_id=1&filters=0_0_0_0

At checkout, enter the code.

lol

Just saw this on RPGNOW's front page.

To celebrate White Wolf's continuing devotion to PDF products, we'd like to offer all of our fans a one-time 10% discount on their next purchase of any White Wolf PDF titles through RPGNow.com. Simply enter the coupon code wwlovesyou to receive your discount! Also, White Wolf is offering a FREE download of the Exalted Second Edition rulebook! Both offers expire by midnight (EST) on Sunday, April 12th.

*reaches for credit card*

But will this really kill any customers that weren't already dead a long time ago?

All I know is that once in a while I get this little voice in my head that says "Maybe I SHOULD buy some of the 4E books. Some of the stuff looks interesting." But just before I wash the bad taste of WoTC's previous disaster out of my mouth long enough to convince myself to give them some of my money again, they do something like this.

I think there are still plenty of customers that would be willing to come back to Wizards and/or embrace 4E if given enough time and enough good will. But when Wizards decides that all its customers are potential criminals and therefore must be preemitively punished, it's like Dick Cheney is running the company.

Bardsandsages wrote:

And even if they intend to do it themselves, they aren't going to make that much more money. Because now they will be eating the credit card and paypal fees, as well as the server space required to host the store. Morover, the amount of advertising that will be involved to get people to change their shopping habits. Paizo, RPGNOW and other sites have pretty loyal bases, and a lot of the base won't shop at a WOTC shop out of general principle. Sure the D&D fanboys and girls will shop whereever the overlords order them to, but you are still alienating a large portion of the PDF buying base.

I think you're underestimating the market power of Wizards (and being a little more rude/puckish toward potential customers than absolutely necessary). Outside of the active-online hardcore-PnP-gaming sub-sub-culture, Magic & D&D are the only CCG/RPG game brands in town, and if Wizards starts selling them exclusively somewhere (and tells people about it), the market will follow them, for good or ill. I'm all for raising awareness of 3PPs among gamers, but it's not like the "don't buy from Wizards on principle" people really make up a bulk of the market.

I think you are missing my point.

If one assumes that this is part of WoTC attempting to maximize their profits, trying to do everything yourself is not always the best way to do that. My day job, for example, is in contract packaging. All those big displays you see in the supermarkets and WalMart? Companies don't do those in house. They do those through contract packagers who design, build, and stock the displays for them.

Now you can say they would save money by doing it themselves, just like Wizards might think they would make more money by selling the PDFs directly instead of through vendors. However, this is in fact rarely the case.

Assume Wizards makes 80% profit on the sale of a PDF at RPGNOW (I'm just making an assumption, based on Wizards being able to negotiate a better rate than the typical PDF publisher). They have no money tied up in maintaining the database. They don't have to deal with the credit card/paypal transactions. They don't have to have special customer service people to handle technical problems. Its pure profit.

So now they decide they want 100% of the cut. But out of that 100%, they are now paying the CC fees/paypal fees. They are paying for additional server space. They are paying customer service people to handle complaints, problems, etc. Your 100% now shrinks back closer to the 80%. And even if you manage to increase your net cut by 5%, the money you put into trying to get an additional 5% return on digital sales could have been put into other aspects of the company that could return a 5% return on OVERALL sales.

As far as I know WoTC does not even get money from 3rd edition anymore because the pdf sales should go to the selling company, and the physical books are out of print, unless they get a cut of every pdf book sold. I have no idea what this is supposed to accomplish.
I can only assume they will try to sell them(pdfs) from their site eventually since the 3.x sells are not dying down as quickly as they thought, and they now want to get the money themselves.
A "You can't have it even though I can't use it" attitude has not been seen by me since I was a small child so I am sure, or at least I would like to beleive there is a bigger plot behind all this.

Not sure what would make you think WoTC didn't get a percentage of PDF sales of older products. They would get their percentage just like any other publisher that sells through RPGNOW or digital vendors. RPGNOW doesn't buy the rights to our products. They sell them for us, and they take a commission out of the sale.

I mean, I know what percentage I pay to RPGNOW to sell our Bards and Sages titles. it is a lot less than I would have to give to a brick and mortar shop to sell print books, I can tell you that. And I assume WoTC had even better rates because of the volume of sales. So they are going from a profit of maybe 80-85% on PDFs to ZERO.

And even if they intend to do it themselves, they aren't going to make that much more money. Because now they will be eating the credit card and paypal fees, as well as the server space required to host the store. Morover, the amount of advertising that will be involved to get people to change their shopping habits. Paizo, RPGNOW and other sites have pretty loyal bases, and a lot of the base won't shop at a WOTC shop out of general principle. Sure the D&D fanboys and girls will shop whereever the overlords order them to, but you are still alienating a large portion of the PDF buying base.

Hasbro, please hurry up and sell the D&D brand to someone other than WotC. I mean, anybody . . .

Anybody...except GM.

Though maybe we should send the people that run WoTC to the White House for a little sit down with Obama. You know they have gamer geeks in his admnistration.

I'll venture a prediction.

Sometime in the near future, WOTC will announce the availability of 4e books (and possibly, but with lesser probablity 3.5) available through them exclusively.

This was pretty much what I assumed had happened when I got Paizo's e-mail.

WOW...just...wow. I check my e-mail this morning to find an e-mail from Paizo telling me WoTC pulled all of its PDFs from retail sites. All I can do is shake my head. It's as if they fired anyone they had left in their PR department. At first I thought this was some hair-brained effort to force customers to buy PDFs directly from them. But no, it isn't even raw greed we can chalk this up to. WoTC has proven they are officially stuck on Chaotic Stupid.

It would seem they just slapped all of the 3rd party publishers in the face with this stunt. After making a big deal out of changing their license to encourage more 3rd party publishers (the majority of whom do the bulk of their business in PDF) to support 4E, they pull the rug out from under 4E digital support.

I am so glad we never took the bait.

If I can make a completely shameless plug, I've placed all of our Karma Roleplaying System supplements on sale at 10% off at RPGNOW. Not wanting to overly stir the pot, since I realize Paizo and RPGNOW are probably trying to get WoTC to at least let legitimate customers access their legally purchased PDFs, I refrained from dubbing it a "SCREW WOTC SALE." But should the guys at Paizo decide that WoTC isn't budging, and that such a sales promotion would be appropriate...

http://www.rpgnow.com/index.php?cPath=4379

I was under the impression that some had already paid, or would have had to based on the original schedule. Wouldn't it be interesting if the whole GSL thing was a bait to keep other companies following the carrot instead of working on their own stuff (like Pathfinder) and then later dropping the carrot and say "oh we decided to not do it this go around, sorry kids"

I'm not saying that IS what they are doing, I'm just saying it is one way it could be seen. I would personally prefer to believe that noone is that nasty.

I don't think it was a bait and switch. It's more likely Hanlon's Razor...Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. Instead of "vetting" their policy BEFORE THE GENCON announcement last year, which would have been the intelligent move considering they actually help a special meeting with 3rd party publishers and new this would be a question, they waited until AFTER putting a $5,000 deal on the table to show the new license to the lawyers. It's a case of poor planning and poorer public relations.

What you are suggesting implies a level of forethought and planning I have never really believed WoTC was capable of. ;-)

I think realisticly, anyone that would be in a position to develop their own system would have already been planning their own system or some other "out" when the first rumors of 4e began. We started working on our plans for Karma last year. So a deliberate stunt like this would have zero impact on stopping anyone from designing their own system, because those with the resources to do so would have already started by now.

It is a shame, however, because we had hoped to support both 3.5 and 4e, as well as our own Karma system, in the upcoming publishing year. But we've scrapped all 4e plans. There is no way we could professionally put together 4e stuff for this year at this point, even is we saw a GSL tommarrow.

I find the "military genius" kobolds to be among the lamest of D&D's cliches. Kobolds are weak, cowardly critters. They are not the Che. Hit and run tactics are find, but the type of tactical omniscience that they get as DM's pets is overused and tired.

Why is it that the kobolds always know where the party is, and the party never knows where they are? Kobolds suck at Listen, Move Silent, AND Spot, and aren't that great at Hide.

Sorry for the rant, but "deadly kobolds" have bored me since the Tucker days.

But see that is the point. It isn't that they are military geniuses. They are just paranoid little monsters that trap everything and its brother to make sure nobody gets too close. It's not that the kobolds know where the party is, just that they assume the enemy is everywhere and trap accordingly!

Bardsandsages wrote:

Only melee attacks trigger flanking, therefore by extension only a melee attack can be a backstab.

I would also point out that the "Flanked" condition depends on being "threatened" and not attacked so a rogue with a weapon in one hand and a wand in the other could "Spleen-Freeze"(good one!)-Sneak-Attack a flanked opponent if he as a flanking partener.

No, because flanking requires a melee attack. Activating a magic item is not a melee attack, and therefore would not qualify.

"If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.
The rogue’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and it increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied."

"The rogue’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target."

"When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by a character or creature friendly to you on the opponent’s opposite border or opposite corner."

Only melee attacks trigger flanking, therefore by extension only a melee attack can be a backstab. The point of a backstab is that you are targeting a specific vital organ, and thus can do massive damage. A spell cannot be used to flank or target a specific vital organ, and therefore cannot be used to make a backstab.

One of the better presentations of kobold tactics I can recall was in the Return to Keep on the Borderlands.

Tripwires, some of which were traps, some of which were obvious and meant to distract people so they'd fall into other traps. A big freakin' paper mache Boulder rolling down the hallway to "crush" people, scaring them into leaping into the side corridor (setting off the trap there). Good stuff!

Dear gods, I am going to HAVE to use this now!

It seems that the DM also has all the wrong ideas of what justifies a "difficult" encounter. Armor alone does not an encounter make. As has already been pointed out, kobolds KNOW they are physically weak, and therefore they compensate by resorting to every underhanded trick in the book. The correct answer to the 14 year old would have been a simple pit trap filled with scorpions, followed by a hail of poisoned crossbolts shooting down at him. Ending with the DM saying "You're right. Kobolds aren't tough. But they are smarter than you."

On a related note, apparently several rogue power leveling/gold selling sites are springing up that will let you buy uber cool items for your players using U.S. dollars. Unfortunately, this also means adventurers will have problems completing quests because the gold farmers will interrupt the games to kill all of the NPCs for their loot.

Honestly, I don't have a problem with the mystical HPs on a 20. If the gaming gods ordain that you are to drop a 20, then the character was not meant to die.

Oh ye of little faith!

Over the years, we've developed a wierd little house rule that was never officially made a house rule, but just sort of ended up a point of play. But it's kind of along the same vein as this. Whenever a character took damage that would have reduced him to -10, if (AND ONLY IF) the character had been roleplaying following a god they can make a roll to see if their god intervenes). In th case of paladins and clerics who were specifically performing a task their gods ordained, I'd even give bonuses to the roll. But if the roll was successful, their god happened to look over and decide "No, it's not your time yet. Get back there and finish what I told you to do."

Whenever new players join our group, they are always so surprised by the amount of in-character titheing players do for the church. Every time they are in a city, they ask if there is a temple to their particular gods so they can go pray.

Trust the dice. Be one with the dice.

Oh,and what about the super-duper see in the dark drow? Even the citizens of Menzoberanzan required light to read their evil nasty spellbooks of DOOM!

But they suffered penalties in the light. I think that was one of the issues. You can't have it both ways. If you have darkvision, you should also have a problem seeing in bright light. It makes sense.

I'm photosensitive. I have excellent night vision and can see in low-light, but bright light hurts my eyes. My eyes don't dilate properly, so they let a lot of light in...all the time. In a way, that is really what low-light vision and darkvision is, but taken to the extreme. So it would follow that if a races eyes are adjusted to pick up even the most miniscule amount of light in order to see, then they should be at a disadvantage when there is a lot of light.

What I don't understand is this, "However, with the death of Mystra and jealous Shar suppressing the ascension of a new deity of magic."

Huh??? Since when did Shar become able to tell Ao that he CAN'T make a new deity of magic! Seriously how the hell did she manage that. Especially after she lost her grasp on the Shadow Weave when she attempted to grab the Weave.

(The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book better come with a lifetime supply of gaming snacks or I will never even look at it.) ;)

Maybe she pulled a Tykhisis and hide the planet...

WHY WON'T THE CHOSEN DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!! DAMN YOU ELMINSTER AND ALL OF YOUR RIDICULOUS CHOSEN COHORTS!!!

Oh, sorry. Too much coffee today...

This is really the most contrived bunch of crap I've read in a while. As has been noted, Mystra already bit the big one once, and was just replaced by Midnight who became Mystra. Why then logically did not one of the Chosen just assume the mantle, since one of the reasons for the existence of the Chosen was in the event of Mystra's death?

And how is this explanation of magic all that much different from before? Clerics ALWAYS prayed for spells. People could always forge "dark pacts" (they just weren't a playable class). There is nothing new or shiny here, just a contrived justification for 4e.

And yes, the fact that Waterdeep escapes this unscathed bothers me to no end.

Why is smoking not allowed on planes?

Because federal law prohibits it. I don't believe Congress passed a law against half-orcs. (though it might be buried somewhere in the new tax package, but I suspect the ACLU may protest)

Why doesn't MTV show music videos?

Because people stopped watching videos for ten hours a day. Note that they didn't move all of the videos to a fee-only website.

Why can't I buy a new car with tail fins?

Because technology advances and a better understanding of aerodynamics make them inefficient. I don't see how technological comparisons apply.

Why doesn't Wedny's have a Super Bar?

Customers stopped being interested in it, and so it was phased out OVER TIME. Note that Wendy's didn't put it in a separate building that you had to pay an entrance fee to get to.

Why doesn't every GI Joe have Kung Fu action grip?

Because G.I. Joe has become a kinder, gentler hero and now practices yoga. ;-)

Seems an unrealistic expectation to me.

Whether or not it is unrealistic is not the point. It is an expectation WoTC themselves created. Comparing it to software changes isn't really the same, because those changes are based on advancements in technology. Technology did not suddenly change that made it impossible for the half-orc to be core.

In the marketplace, once something has become accepted as part of the standard package, you can't expect to take it away and charge separately for it later. The airline industry learned this the hard way. For years, customers had certain expectations when they flew. In flight meals, movies, etc. Then the industry took a hit, and they decided to start cutting out those standard services and charging for them separately. What happened? Even fewer people flew. Now many of them are bending over backwards trying to get customers back.

Look at the car industry. A standard car package today includes air bags, CD player, air conditioning, and a host of things you had to pay for separately years ago. If the industry suddenly switched gears and stripped all of those things, customers would react negatively. Yes, in the PAST these things didn't come standard. But once you have opened that Pandora's Box and made it so, you can't easily put it back.

If the e-mail in question was in reference to what can and cannot be discussed per the NDA, it is in fact covered by the NDA, and your friend violated the terms of the NDA by sharing the information with you.

Actually, of all of WoTC's sins, this isn't even on the radar. I mean, I'm under a NDA at my current employer. But if the VP came up to me one day and said "Hey, Julie. I know you have a blog and stuff. If you wanted to share some of the positive things we are doing on your blog, we would wave the NDA. But don't discuss anything that could be construed as negative because that could hurt us and our clients." I wouldn't consider that illegal, immoral, or unethical. I'm free to discuss cool stuff if I want, but I don't have to say anything.

You have gained 18,000 XP for completing this task!

What do you want to do now?
1) Continue down to the next level.
2) Camp for the night.

If I stop at an inn or major city, will I earn double XP into the next level?

I agree with everything except the "normal part of the game" thing. Every edition has had a different combination of core classes and races - so there really is no "normal" state for race/class choices.

True. But the difference now is that for the last seven years there has been a true core, available as the SRD, and reinforced by every third party publisher that created 3.0/3.5 material. This situation didn't exist in previous incarnations of the game. WoTC created, deliberately, a certain expectation in the marketplace by creating the SRD, and established that sense of normalcy.

There are also new alignments, from what I understand.

Lawful Stupid--

Nuetral Stupid--

Chaotic Stupid--

I don't have a problem with DDI content per se. If DDI subscribers get access to new super-kewl uber powers for their money, that is all well and good. As DM, I still get veto power over whether or not they can use it. So it doesn't even matter.

What I do have an issue with is taking something that you originally provided as a normal part of the game (i.e. the SRD), removing it entirely, and then repackaging it for a separate charge.

Does WoTC have a legal right to do it? Of course they do.

Is it a smart PR move? Of course it is not. But as has already been pointed out, WoTC isn't known for its PR.

Did they make a deliberate decision to suck blood out of gamers for some evil ritual? Probably not. Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. Sounds more like someone realized maybe they screwed up and underestimated some of the backlash, and now they are backpeddling. Pride being what it is, someone probably decided you can't give it away for free, because that would be admitting you were wrong.

Will it make or break by decision to buy the 4e core books? Not at all. I'll still buy them, because I'm curious about the rule changes and want to see them in play.

Which is probably a good point. If girl gamers are attracted to the gaming table, boy gamers might discover their existence, become distracted from buying WotC product and be skipping games all the time to have teh sex (and, eventually, to stay home and watch the kids and fondly reminisce about the pre-home-ownership days when their paycheck wasn't spent before they got it).

Now see, you are mistaken. We buy more books because I am much better and budgeting and controlling our finances than by boyfriend was on his own. Left to his own devices, Mike would spend all of his free money on Comics, not game books. And whereas before one of us might have not bought something because there was only a passing interest, if we are both interested in it we often decide to buy.

My friend Julie and her husband have clearly made a decision to raise gamers (they have three boys). So when gamers mate, they are likely to reproduce more gamers. It's easier to breed your own than to try and convert.

WoTC should be doing everything in their power to attract female gamers.

Now that everyone is done bouncing...(or maybe you are still bouncing, I suppose it is a personal preference)

I've posted a detailed article regarding our plans for 2008 and into 2009 in regards to 3.5, 4th edition, and some other stuff we're working on. There are more kobolds in our future...

Article can be found here

I'm a woman, and while not fully insulted by the two ridiculous video clips, I am annoyed. But I'm more annoyed from a business angle than a female one. They post a question, and then don't answer it, but instead plug a book? Yet another example of stupid marketing tricks.

If you want to attract women, use the damn research that is ALREADY AVAILABLE from the game console industry. Obviously there are exceptions, and plenty of them, but much of the research shows that women prefer story-based "constructive" games. Men prefer "action, destructive" games.

Men prefer changes to game systems that allow more power, "kewler" abilities, and more chances to blow crap up (figuritively and literally). Female gamers prefer systems that allow them to build their characters the way they want, to interact with the story, and maybe have an impact.

Many of the changes wizard has made are more geared toward the "power, kewler" angle. Get rid of the bard, and you eliminate a damn good class when used as a good support character in a party. Good bards often make it possible to get the job done without hack-slash-kill. A good druid, while obviously equiped with some firepower, can have the same impact in a wilderness setting. Both classes give you a lot of non-combat options that allow for roleplaying, not roll-playing.

THACO was extremely difficult to figure out when drunk.

Not that I did a lot of gaming while intoxicated, or anything...

Seriously, I don't remember the Wizards PR being as poorly executed with 3.0. But then again it was the first major upheaval and perhaps we were all more forgiving. But then there was 3.5 not all that long after and we were expected to buy all of the books again...and hell they didn't even have different art in them. It was the almost the SAME BOOK with the same art and layout and wording, just the rules tweeked here and there. So after the 3.5 fiasco, I think there is a trust issue involved. Too many folks smell 4.5 coming in 2010.

Since I normally GM

PHB, DMG, MM, relevent setting book and/or alternate monster compendium depending on the game.

Box o' dice

My dice demons (my kobold minis, which guard my dice from the players)

Paper, pencils, maps

A copy of a random Ravenloft or Call of Chutulu book. Not that I intend to use them. Just because the sight of them make the players nervous.

You'd be surprised how quickly the words "You notice a strange mist rolling towards you" can straighten up a problematic party.

Actually, getting back to the original post, I've heard of all these companies, and they all have some great products. Of course, they've all got a dog or two in the mix, too.

For the most part, though, there's some really good stuff out there. The only problem I have with them is that being the (part) owner of 4 LGSs I can't sell any of their PDFs in the store!

's too bad, too, 'cuz some of them are pretty stinkin' good...

Many of the publishers who have chimed in here (myself included) have some of our larger products available in POD format. I'm sure most would be happy to work out something if you need 3.4 products for inventory!

I even formed a communal storefront that features print versions of PDFs from 15 publishers. It'a called Power Word: Print. I would suspect that most would be willing to work out deals for shops interested in supporting 3.5.

Bardsandsages wrote:

Wizards seems to have allowed their lawyers to handle their marketing, and it has made people distrustful of their intent.

My theory is this: They haven't been lying.

I didn't say they were lying per se. I said they were allowing the legal dept. to control their marketing. None of the Wizards marketing has made an attempt to place their customers (both end-consumers and 3rd party publishers) at ease.

There is a right way and a wrong way to handle these things. Using the developer's kit as an example, the way it was presented drew a line in the sand, and actually can be construed as insulting to many independent publishers. It created an Us versus Them vibe among publishers. I can tell you that the list of publishers invited to that phone call did not include all publishers that requested information. And the wording of the Wizards release implied only the ones on the call had queried. If a PR person was handling the developer kit, it would have gone more like this...

"We appreciate the fact that many publishers need information about 4e in order to make long term plans. We value the support these publishers have provided to gamers, and want to facilitate their ability to produce quality products.

The complete SRD will be available to all publishers in June. Because we want to give our mutual customers time to learn the new system and adopt the rules, and avoid a glut of new products that can overwhelm the market at a time when players are still adjusting to the new system, we have added a stipulation to the OGL that asks that publishers refrain from producing supplemental material until January 2009.

"However, we also know many customers will want supplemental materials before that, and that quality supplemental materials can help players more readily adopt the new system. To that end, we have developed a special developer's kit for established publishers. This kit will provide publishers will the current rules, as well as access to errata and other changes that are made between now and the June release. In this way, we can ensure that publishers have the most accurate information.

Do to the costs associated with creating this kit and supporting publishers with current information as it is available, there is a one time fee of $5,000 for the kit. To compensate publishers further, those publishers that do obtain the kit will be able to release 4e materials in August."

Instead of creating an adversarial tone or implying some publishers aren't good enough, this would have added value to the developer kit. It's a different feel that the "We're trying to keep the riffraff out" that was done by Wizards.

Just a note: the above is NOT my best work. Just something quick as an example of how it could have been handled. The phone's been ringing none stop and interrupting my concentration!

The issue solely rests on the fact that, regardless of how good or bad 4 e may truely be, Wizards fumbled the ball PR wise. They've been playing this bizarre cloak and daggers game since the Gen Con announcement, saying one thing and then doing another but claiming they are doing exactly what they said they were doing. This new "Publisher Developer Kit" only the latest issue. Originally, when asked if the new license would be split or tiered, they said no. They supported the OGL and all that blah blah.

But then they decide to release a "Publisher Development Kit" for $5,000. You don't have to buy it, but otherwise you can't even see the SRD until June and you can't get a copy of the OGL until then either.

I'm not arguing with their right to charge. I'm pointing out that, from a public relations standpoint, it all looks heavy-handed and a workaround of their original promise not to have a tiered license.

Wizards seems to have allowed their lawyers to handle their marketing, and it has made people distrustful of their intent.

*pokes head in the room and waves*

Sorry haven't been around. Nice to see a bit of kobold love in the room, anyway. Though the fact that we are mostly remembered for kobolds is both endearing and...well...unnerving.

For those who wonder who we are and what we do besides kobolds...www.bardsandsages.com

Ive always felt that people gravitate first towards the class and alignment that closest reflect them. Especially where Role Playing is concerned. Its always easiest to play oneself.

Oh dear, my first character ever was a CN vampire fighter...no wonder people think I'm bloodthirsty

After reading this thread, I am still completely lost how you can have an "ecology" of something that is undead and not part of any ecology. "Ecology" implies that it is a creature that serves some purpose in its environment. A death knight would serve no purpose in any ecology that would remotely make sense to anyone not taking crack before gaming. Wizards seems to have gotten into this weird habit of just using words in ways they were never meant to be used, and then wondering why people are confused, underwhelmed, disinterested, or disoriented.

I fear that WoTC is resorting to metaplotting, because it seems we can't just have a critter any more without some massive 50 page dissertation on where it came from and its justification.

Sebastian wrote:

Just read the latest info on ENWorld and, as usual, their summary of the various blog posts by the 4e designers is more informative and interesting than the articles posted on the WotC website.

Which means it's just a matter of time until WotC buys ENWorld and shuts it down to preserve the information monopoly.

Morrus might sell ENWorld for the right price...but then he could just launch a whole new site and do the same thing. At least, I know that's what many of us 3rd party publishers would encourage him to do. ;)

Matthew Morris wrote:

Bardsandsages wrote:

What about Bane? Where does he fit into all of this?

EDIT: I'm still miffed we've no idea how Bane got better from 2e-3e I mean they haven't even explained all the cosmology changes and they foist more on us.

Actually, I think they kind of, sort of did explain it. If I remember correctly, they said that Xvim, his son and would-be successor, was basically something akin to an egg. Inside, Bane's essence gestated for a while before completely consuming Xvim and emerging reborn.

Yep, that's how it went down. Xvim was Bane's "back-up plan". Brilliant, really, when you think about it.

Almost all of my games require social skills, because there are consequences for actions. Yes, that lord on the hill may be an evil vampire, but he's governed efficiently for 200 years and the town has prospered. So a prostitute disappears once in a while? The town turns a blind eye, and if you just go up there and kill him you'll have an entire region on your tail. Just because the paladin detects evil on someone doesn't give him the right to stalk the NPC. Because the law differentiates between evil intent and evil actions. If you strongarm the local magistrate to release an "innocent" prisoner, maybe people who were previously friendly or allies suddenly stop associating with you because you've created a political mess for them. The key to preventing the H&S mentality is to make sure there are consequences for actions.

A party that routinely resolves conflict with violence may earn a bad rep. Maybe vendors charge them more for services. While a party that resolves problems with non-violence earns the respect of the church and gets special boons.

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Julie
Bards and Sages.

Someone just tell me the Symbul bites the big one...I'll be a happy girl.

What about Bane? Where does he fit into all of this?

Technically, I don't have much of a choice. As a publisher, I'll have to learn the system and run a few games under 4th edition to ensure I know what the heck I'm doing. When it comes to my recreational gaming, I'll probably do what our gaming group did when the new World of Darkness came out. Use the changes I like and ignore the ones I don't.

But frankly, I'm ALREADY burnt out on 4th edition "news". Until I see an SRD, it's all just fluff and bunny nonsense. From a PR standpoint, I think they are making a mistake with the way they are handling this. Too much hype. The game will not be able to live up to all the nonsense hype they are trying to generate, even if it is a flawless mechanic. By the time the damn system is ready, people are gonna be expecting it to come with real kobolds, for gods' sake.

Heathansson wrote:

Even a romance novel with a forbidden love between a 1/2 orc and an elf? Poor starcrossed lovers.

or a werewolf, and a wolfwere? Or a mermaid and a fish-head-man?Or a Jinni and a light brown hare?

These sound more like horror stories to me...

Stop it! Just STOP! You're killing me here! Don't you know that companies (sorry Paizo, don't mean you guys) aren't supposed to respond to their customers, but instead just treat them as easily replaced sources of income.

Haven't you ever heard the phrase "Cruel to be kind". You're getting it backwards.

Oh, I can be cruel. But I generally reserve that venom for the idiots who send me their full-length romance novels for possible submission...even though we don't publish romance novels. Or the ones who send poetry submissions in florescent green cursive font because "they want to stand out."

My lawyers advise me that we cannot be responsible for exploding heads due to any honesty coming from our company.

And we had nothing to do with that nasty kobold incident, we swear.

But, yes, I'm pretty open to suggestions, comments, and criticisms. And with the magic of Google I can usually track down those threads and such that may require my attention. ;)

We have not made a final decision as to what we will do regarding 3.5, however we intend to continue to support 3.5 in some capacity. Whether that means separate 3.5 and 4th edition products, or products that present both options, is still up in the air, or some variant thereof, we don't know. We figure we still have plenty of time before we have to put anything in stone, but I am very interested in hearing suggestions from anyone.

Julie Ann Dawson
owner, Bards and Sages