Azure Shin's page

Easy, don't drop your Strength that low.

With the Musetouched bonuses, you could have a well-rounded
10,16,14,13,12,16 with a 20pt buy.

Or, be a small race so your gear weighs less.

Or, buy a CR4 battle-trained Bison for 75gp, and have it carry you and your crap around.

I actually have a Horse and Small Wagon for all my stuff lol its when i get off of the Wagon thats the issue. Boosting it to 10 only gives me an extra 10lbs but that would give me the extra i need for my slashing weapon and buckler. Thanks

Alright so right before all this quarantine stuff started happening I was about to join a pathfinder (v1) game. I decided i wanted to play a Swashbuckler. Its been a LONG while since I played pathfinder but I remember really having fun playing a Swashbuckler (even had a Swash/Pally build using spiked shields for a Gesalt game but i digress). I looked up a few guides and tweeked a few things to more fit my play style and my likes....then i noticed something. Carry Weight. All the guides I saw said to dump Strength (except maybe 1) to either a 7 or an 8 depending on point buy. I build my character, put in stats, buy stuff...then i notice it, the light load for someone with 7 Strength....is 23lbs. That is enough to carry my armor and a Rapier. That is it. No carry capacity for my buckler, dagger, a slashing weapon i got. What good is a high dex if your str is so low you cant bring anything with you?

So yes. I desire help fixing my build. Currently I chose the Musetouched Aasimar for the Dex and Cha boost and it's a 20 point buy. I've already said Muleback cords will likely be the fire magic item I invest in...but thats a few levels off as it is. Also I do have an animal that can carry things for me but I cant even carry all my most basic equipment with me currently.

Thank you.

Also the whole scaled fist monk is also tempting but I feel like I would lose any real support I could offer from the Paladin class. Real tempting but maybe for a different build. Kinda already have a back story for this character

Now what feats would work good with this character? Already thought about improved initiative. At level 3 that would put my initiative at +14 as a Sword if Valor Paladin. At least I hope it would. They add charisma to initiative. Level 3 swashbuckler adds +2 if you have any panache. Then improved initiative for another +4. Please tell me these stack.

Guiding Blade Swashbuckler and Sword of Valor Paladin are 2 good options. Sword if valor would give me an additional +5 to initiative and I could always grab the improved initiative feat to add more. I do like the idea of using charmed life on allies too.

A lot of these have really helped. Thanks everyone :) also love I broke someone's mind with the whole spiked shield swashbuckler idea lol. The best thing about it is at level 5 the shield gets the improved critical feat for free.

Damn I was hoping it would stack because one is passive and one is activated. Shit that kinda screws with my plans...could do the daring infiltrator archetype or ask my dm if she is willing to let it stack or give me half bonus or something

Damn I was hoping it would stack because one is passive and one is activated. Shit that kinda screws with my plans...could do the daring infiltrator archetype or ask my dm if she is willing to let it stack or give me half bonus or something

So I posted a while ago about 2 possible builds and I've decided to do an Aaesimar Swashbuckler/Paladin build and wanted some advice.

For starters here are my base stats, some race information, and my preferences.

13, 15, 15, 16, 16, 17 (got lucky what can I say)
Here is the build I'm considering
Str - 13
Dex - 17
Con - 16
Int - 15
Wis - 18 (16+2)
Cha - 20 (16+4)

Why 16+4 you may ask? Spell casting isn't my strong suit. Never been good at playing full on magic classes, I like rogues and combat characters. I decided to give up the Aaesimar spell like ability racial bonus and roll on the d% table and I got an additional +2 charisma (praise be to the celestial who is my characters ancestor).

Fun fact as well spiked shields work with the swashbuckler weapon choices for panache.

As I said before I prefer mostly combat classes and not into any overly magical ones. I liked this build because at level 2 I added +10 to all saves 3 times a day and +5 any other time. But also I felt that the Paladin offered a lot of what the Bard was going to offer me but also gave me a few simpler combat abilities and less magic focused.

It's been a while since I played pathfinder so I would appreciate the feed back and advice. Thanks

To clarify the +5 I chose to go with Aaesimar and rolled on the 100 alternate traits table and got an additional +2 to charisma (which fking blew my mind!)

So I had an idea and that was swashbuckler Saladin. I'm honestly not much of a spell caster player so a pure spell casting class kind of turns me off (sorry no offense ment just not my cup of tea) so I was thinking more of a class that would help support me and my party while also going along with the whole main stat thing. I settled on Paladin. At level 2 I can add +5 to all my saves and another +5 3 times a day. Also found out that you can use any spiked shield (other than tower) as a 1 handed melee piercing weapon which helps out swashbuckler. Thoughts?

So far it looks like either a Swashbuckler/Archaeologist Bard Aasimar or a Slayer/Inquisitor Kasatha. I rolled great stats too. 13, 15, 16, 16, 16, 17

So a friend of mine has decided that they want to run a campaign where you start with 2 classes and each level you get a level in each class. I'm thinking about going Swashbuckler/Slayer and I wanted the thoughts of others.

I'm also open to Races though i'm not 100% what races will be allowed or not.

Right now i'm wanting to get a good combo of classes, i like dex based classes over strength and I also like being a scout and face.

Thanks for your help in advance

Azure Shin wrote:

It seems like it is a grey area.

It's not a grey area. The rules are really really clear. And I'm a pedant who loves picking at rules! It specifically says that while using certain weapons you gain the benefit of the feat (and also some other bonuses). That is not and cannot be different in effect from having the feat (and also some other bonuses). If you had the feat, they wouldn't stack. So if you have this, they don't stack. And Paizo aren't going to clarify something this obvious.

There might be a certain amount of wishful thinking going on, but it isn't a grey area.

Azure Shin wrote:

I've looked at guides for this brand new character saying to either get keen blades or improved crit (they say the blades are better) because it stacks.

It's also possible (and not actually that unusual) for guides to have mistakes. Guides are generally written by fans and don't have a proofing process. People can make mistakes, especially when they're overly enthusiastic about something.

Azure Shin wrote:

I've had my GM say as plain as day that it does stack but it doesn't stack with improved crit

Then your GM got it wrong. Bear in mind, GMs are people too and can also make mistakes. :-)

Ability gives you the effects of improved crit. Improved crit does not work with keen. Ability does not work with keen. Not hard.

The good news is: you don't have to spend money on a keen weapon. And you get a bonus plus effectively a free feat at 5th level, when the feat itself would only be available at 8th. So it saved you a feat, which is really good.
Also, seems that Improved Critical DOES stack with Bless Weapon:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/bless-weapon
Also, 5th level is (hopefully) the earliest it's possible to combo those two effects. So go out, get an oil of bless weapon, stab up some evil people, and be happy about having a really good option three levels early rather than hoping to get it better.

Also, if the homebrew other...

See if this was posted at the beginning it would have been a lot more helpful. Just saying "No it doesnt work" doesnt really help even if you say it 5 different ways. And as to the "Paizo aren't going to clarify something this obvious" comment. By clarify i meant put it as a little bit in the ability description itself not make a press release or anything. "Swashbuckler Weapon Training (Ex): blah blah blah (does not stack with keen or improved critical feat) blah blah blah" Anyways thats the end of this thread

The swashbuckler ability does not specifically say it stacks with any other crit range enhancers, therefore it doesn't since Keen never stacks as per its own description and Imp Crit is what you are basically gaining via the class itself.

So this is not grey at all

I just posted under this but the grey area is the situational setting of it. Also by your logic the fact that it doesnt say it doesnt stack means it does.

Azure Shin wrote:

Eltacolibre wrote:

It's not a grey area...nobody questions it, at the end of the day, whatever you want to do in your homegame is your prerogative.

It seems like it is a grey area. I've looked at guides for this brand new character saying to either get keen blades or improved crit (they say the blades are better) because it stacks. I've had my GM say as plain as day that it does stack but it doesn't stack with improved crit (not saying it as a house rule just that it does) So i will say once more. I understand improved crit and keen dont stack fine. But as far as this ability goes (its more or less a better version of improved crit because it adds to hit and damage as well) it is a grey area and needs to be addressed formally by paizo.

There WAS one ability in 3.5 which did stack with either Improved Critical or Keen. And it was broken.

HOW it worked was that it increase the Natural Threat Range by exactly 1 number, meaning 18-20 became 17-20; this is how it got around the Keen/Improved Crit non-interaction. You would increase the Threat Range from 18-20 to 17-20, which is 4 numbers; you then double that value with either Keen or Improved Critical, which is 8 numbers, which means you threaten a Critical on a 20, 19, 18, 17, 16, 15, 14, or 13.

Again, this was completely broken, and was one of the worst designs Wizards of the Coast came up with in 3.5

Swashbuckler Weapon Training (Ex): At 5th level, a swashbuckler gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with one-handed or light piercing melee weapons. While wielding such a weapon, she gains the benefit of the Improved Critical feat. These attack and damage bonuses increase by 1 for every four levels beyond 5th level (to a maximum of +4 at 17th level).

Again it says they get the benefit if conditions are met, that is the big grey area to me. Thats like saying that if you're using a keen scimitar your crit range is 15-20. But if you get dervish dance that same scimitar can also be piercing and now qualifies for this situation bonus but doesnt get it.

It's not a grey area...nobody questions it, at the end of the day, whatever you want to do in your homegame is your prerogative.

It seems like it is a grey area. I've looked at guides for this brand new character saying to either get keen blades or improved crit (they say the blades are better) because it stacks. I've had my GM say as plain as day that it does stack but it doesn't stack with improved crit (not saying it as a house rule just that it does) So i will say once more. I understand improved crit and keen dont stack fine. But as far as this ability goes (its more or less a better version of improved crit because it adds to hit and damage as well) it is a grey area and needs to be addressed formally by paizo.

This swashbuckler? Yeah, it stacks with that class.

No the one found in the new class guide

http://paizo.com/products/btpy978v?Pathfinder-Roleplaying-Game-Advanced-Cla ss-Guide

Sorry, they still don't stack, even as a class ability. Your class ability provides improved critical, which does nothing with keen.

There really is no way in this game to get a better crit range than 15-20.

Your class ability, while using the relevant weapons, gives the improved critical feat. The improved critical feat specifically calls out not working with keen. Therefore your ability does not stack with keen.

Gains the benefit of, not the actual ability. I think this is a grey area at the moment. Its not improved crit only like it thus you cant use it as a reference but it is the benefits of it. I'm hoping Paizo will address this grey area. My GM says it stacks so i'm happy for the extra crit range but ya...since this just came out i just don't know.

Azure Shin wrote:

Eltacolibre wrote:

It's still #3. It will not get any lower.

Well...that makes being a swashbuckler and having a keen weapon useless...i think with any class where there is a crit thing build in, they should allow it to stack

It allows you to allocate the resources you would have spent investing in Keen elsewhere. Hardly a waste.

If you can't see how having a crit range of 9-20 or even 12-20 would be problematic, I would ask why you are so interested in acquiring a crit range like that. Pretty sure your answer will be that it's powerful as hell compared to most everything else available to martial characters, right?

I can see why it would be problematic for the 9-20 but right now we have a custom class playing in ours (a myrmidon) and he is criting like crazy. Also apparently my ability and keen do stack cause its part of my class (go me). But the main reason i want a high crit range isn't for the damage, its because of my class. I use Panache points and i get them back by scoring a critical hit, that's why i want more crit range.

It's still #3. It will not get any lower.

Well...that makes being a swashbuckler and having a keen weapon useless...i think with any class where there is a crit thing build in, they should allow it to stack

The reason i'm asking all this is because of the new swashbuckler class. If gives an ability that gives the effects of improved crit without being improved crit itself. So here is the question, which one is right?

(here is the ability discription)
Swashbuckler Weapon Training (Ex): At 5th level, a swashbuckler gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with one-handed or light piercing melee weapons. While wielding such a weapon, she gains the benefit of the Improved Critical feat. These attack and damage bonuses increase by 1 for every four levels beyond 5th level (to a maximum of +4 at 17th level).

Katana - crit range 18-20

Way #1 - Keen + improved crit + swashbucklers weapon training = 9-20 crit (3 points for each keen, improved crit, and weapon training)

Way #2 - Keen + improved crit + swashbucklers weapon training = 12-20 crit (one of the improved crit things doesnt stack)

Way #3 - Keen + improved crit + swashbucklers weapon training = 15-20 crit (even though all 3 of these are here only 1 works)

Which one is right?

Pathfinder doesn't stack like that in the first place. It's always based on the base value not cumulative so if it did stack it would be a 3 point increase in the range, taking you from 15-20 to 12-20, not to 9-20. So, "it doesn't stack" means they don't combine at all.

Thats what i thought, I'm wanting to know if having keen and improved crit will take me to 12-20 or if its a waste of time to get improved crit

I am confused by something regarding these. First off yes i know they don't "stack" but that's where the line is blurring. To me (this is my take on this) stacking is if i'm using a katana (18-20) with keen (reduces it to 15-20)and get improved crit would then stack the bonuses and get another 6 points reduction instead of just the normal 3. I'm being told that's wrong though and even if i had keen and improved crit i would still be at 15-20. Can i have some help understanding this?

Azure Shin wrote:

I may have remembered it wrong but the fact remains i need a way to have a bunch willing to serve one man, even to the point of becoming fiercely loyal.

Why? Dragons, even the good ones are among the most egotistical creatures in the Bestiary. They have a very healthy sense of their own self importance compared to the short lived ants that scurry beneath them.

They might show respect to the rare human that merits it, but it stretches credibility that a whole bunch of them (for dragons rarely socialize, being loners by nature) would follow a Human like a bunch of doting puppies.

Yes it's your world and scenario and all that. I'm just glad that I'm not the one who has to sell that performance to a bunch of players.

I'm thinking of setting it up as a dragon clan not just a bunch of random dragons. Or it could be something like the sorceress bloodline but highly concentrated.

If he found a clutch of either eggs or newly hatched baby dragons whose parents had disappeared/been killed/whatever and raised them they could very easily be loyal to their foster father. You'd probably have to make the "man" an elf or one of the other long-lived races though.

I havent yet given him a race...but you gave me an idea. How does this sound. After a long and brutal battle 1 mortally wounded silver dragon guards a clutch of eggs. A man comes across them in a cave. The dragon peers into his mind and soul and determines that he is will look after the dragons and gives him their soul (kinda like the thing from Lands of Linnorm where after you kill a certain one their soul enters you and you fight for dominance, only this time they give in willingly) and he becomes almost immortal. He cares for the dragons, trains them, and ya...

I could use the orb as a historical point though. Maybe he had the choice of killing the dragons or getting through them without killing them (much more difficult task) and killed the man who was controlling them and the orb. As thanks and out of respect they chose to follow him of their own will?

The orbs are a domination effect, where as i believe Azure wanted more of a following because of love/respect of the human.

Mostly respect or gratitude or something that is their idea. Not love though. Maybe he did something for silver dragons years before and they granted him the power to age like a dragon and some (who were children at the time) chose to follow him when they became adults?

perhaps the human in question is a high level Paladin of Apsu that fought to free and return a powerful relic that belongs to the silver dragons.

Maybe the human was once a silver itself and was Reincarnated (as per the spell) after a great battle.

just a couple of ideas that spring to mind

I really like the relic idea. The way i've envisioned the group is a bunch of silver haired people with one in the center who has black hair. How long does it take a dragon to go from child to adult?

I may have remembered it wrong but the fact remains i need a way to have a bunch willing to serve one man, even to the point of becoming fiercely loyal.

A friend told me that silver dragons are not good nor evil but will follow a strong leader. I had an idea for a a group of silver dragons to be following a human (by group i mean around 8) all in human form (they have polymorph). My problem is what would make 8 silver dragons follow a human and be fiercely loyal to them?

This is just my 2 cents on this. I believe a Paladin should be any alignment that his/her deity is but lawful. Meaning you follow the laws of your religion, everything after that it how you want to play it. Someone posted something about Calistra (my favorite Deity but i'm told i have to stop picking her) If there is a character who is a Paladin of Calistra then they should follow the rules of the "church". Calistra isn't one for donating coins to the poor or helping an old lady across the street. If someone ran over the old lady over they might seek vengeance on the part of the old lady though. The term "Paladin" more or less means "Warrior Of God" well if that is what it means then shouldn't it be up to my god what alignment i am?

Well it started with my sorceress having some fun with 3 beautiful half elf asian well endowed (we rolled for these) triplets. The Dm had me roll a preform check and ya...nat 20. But now the whole party has died cause the boss triple 20'd our tank (in our campaign nat 20x3 = instant kill. nat 1x3 = instant death)then the rest of us kinda fell...so i'm the only one left to make a character. But i get to keep my harem since i made it into a guild before i died. I've pretty much decided between a OoC Cavalier, a Dragoon, or a cleric. I'll say now i hated my sorceress near the end. Hate spell casters in general (nothing against them just dont fit with my play style)so kinda wanna stay away from spells.

Also thank you all again for your time in helping me. After I finally decide on the class would you be able to help me with race and feats?

Azure Shin wrote:

Well to answer your question it was rolls and i rolled almost max in everything. I believe it was 18/18/17/17/17/16. I also have a +2 to any stat (without my racial) and it would be starting at level 4

DARN.....I change my vote to 'champion of irori' or 'monk going into duelist'.......Or more seriously, with those stats, you can be 'whatever the heck you want'.

Anyway, was your GM suggesting against cavaliers in general, or just the order of the cockatrice?

...and if it was the order, was he suggesting a more powerful order, or was he trying to avoid that choice because he can't go back on the 'playing your character' decision...heh...

One fun archetype I like for cavalier is the huntsman archetype, in part because it encourages a style other than mounted (and that could be a problem in an urban campaign). Ignoring the bits about spreading your effective druid levels between multiple animal companions (because they will not remain effective in later levels), I really like the bit about how your AC gets your bonuses from your challenge as well. Put that on a nice bird, and suddenly you have a highly mobile threat with 3 attacks at full BAB. And heck, depending on how things go, you could make use of the bombard trick via handle animal so it can drop alchemist fires and acid flasks.

And who doesn't want a huge hawk sitting on their shoulder?

Might want to add i also acquired a "harem" and i'm told i must get leadership at level 7. So i want to avoid anything that can take away from my rating or spells.

Azure Shin wrote:

Well to answer your question it was rolls and i rolled almost max in everything. I believe it was 18/18/17/17/17/16. I also have a +2 to any stat (without my racial) and it would be starting at level 4

This screams monk or god cleric so loudly.

God Cleric? Again new to pathfinder i apologize.

I recommend the Swordlord PrC which gets a lot of benefit from Intimidating, or a Cavalier (Order of the Cockatrice for melee is pretty good) - or both! You can mix and match for some really good results.

But I recommend the upcoming Swashbuckler in the ACG.

I was thinking Cavalier with the order of the cockatrice. Sent it to the dm for his thoughts and he said "Naw wouldnt suggest it"

What level are you starting at? What kind of stat gen are you using? Rolls? Point buy? If point buy, then is it at least 20 pt?

If it is 20, then it isn't too hard to go with a
16/14/14/10/10/14
set of stats. Not too damaging to your offense.

I would say that polearms are an excellent choice. If you make a reach build then you could serve a role in battlefield control by making yourself into a circle of pain 25' across.

As an interesting suggestion for early middle levels, I would say lunge would be important for a reach build, but not for the reasons you may think.

Lunge increases your reach by 5', but only during your turn. It does nothing for Attacks of Opportunity...directly at least. But what it does do is let you position enemies into the best place possible.

Normally, with a reach weapon, you end your turn with the enemy 10' away from you. That means that they can take a 5' step (which doesn't draw AoO's) and full attack you. If you increase your range with lunge, however, you end your turn with the enemy at 15' away. That means they have to move 10' to reach you, which means they must spend a move action to get to you (that ends up drawing an AoO) and they cannot full attack (Well, without pounce; pounce is a problem for everyone though...). Lunge is a powerful defensive tool because of this change.

And of course, lunge is a powerful offensive tool as well, since it means that you can full attack a 45' area by using your 5' step.

Well to answer your question it was rolls and i rolled almost max in everything. I believe it was 18/18/17/17/17/16. I also have a +2 to any stat (without my racial) and it would be starting at level 4

Our group already has a paladin i've looked at the swashbuckler so maybe

As the title says i'm trying to make a charisma fighter but its not going very well. I'm still relatively new to Pathfinder and the two classes i've played were a Rogue and a Chaotic Evil Ninja. I rp'd the ninja part so well i got the whole party killed...but the DM said it was just cause i was being faithful to the character. Moving on.

I want help to create a high damage character. I dont mind if he duel wields or uses something like a spear. Giant swords and axes arent really my style. Nothing against them just always been more of a blade or spear guy. Anyways I was hoping to get some ideas and or help on what to make.

Thank you for your time and thoughts.