Atik's page

I'm dealing with a similiar situation in my own run, but the players have already destroyed the power transmitter; forcing Meyanda into an awkward position where she plans to bring the party to Scrapwall and attempt to reconvense with Hellion.

But, I was considering the fact that Hellion is insane, and almost certainly does not tolerate failure. So I'm thinking he will turn against Meyanda; intending to kill her and the PCs.

I can only imagine it's from the idea of being thrown around or hitting things. Else, I feel like it would be untyped damage.

As a GM, I'd say it only comes into play for a character who is thrown free from the room or ship, with the assumption that they hit SOMETHING. The awkward part, to me, is that there's no Reflex save or anything included.

It's a strange hazard, for sure.

I think this is a question up to the GM: it relies on whether they want to be realistic with their space, or more like "hollywood space".

(Unless there's an official rule about it, of course)

A couple bullet holes in an otherwise intact wall/bulkhead isn’t going to matter, in terms of objects or characters being moved.

That's not what sci-fi movies have taught me...

Creatures that do not need to breathe are not affected by changes in atmospheric density.

From the spell "Control Atmosphere".

Decompression rules seem to refer to the act of being violently flung free from a spaceship, so I'd argue the bludgeoning damage come into effect, but not any suffocation damage.

They are fairly high on the murder-hobo scale, and I'm hoping to curb that when they witness the consequences of their actions at the end of FoC.

And yeah. The SRO Mechanic counted, effectively, as a character death and the player changed to one of the NPC crewmembers (A Vlaka Envoy).

Well, thanks for the attention! Just finished second session last night, and it was certainly slightly crazy.

Party left the caves to return to the Foundry Tavern, where their crewmates had awoken. There was some conversing, and filling the fellow crew in on the situation.

With that done, the crew decided to hit the market in hopes of picking up some weapons and clothes that could spare their ammo, and hopefully help them blend in a bit. While in the market, the Operative, Mechanic, and Envoy all picked up some new weaponry (Shortswords, a Greatsword, and a Bow.) And, hoping to test her new weaponry it seemed, the Envoy picked a fight with the local Ropefist Thugs at the market. Helping out, she and the Operative made short work of them and sent the panicked townsfolk scattering.

This did not go unnoticed by the boss of the Ropefist. Garmen invited the party in hopes of having them hand over their technology and gold, planning to sweep a couple deaths under the rug. Unfortunately, the Operative got the bright idea to try turning the deal around and intimidating Garmen.

He caught a crossbow bolt to the chest for his trouble, and all hell broke loose. Most awkwardly, the Mechanic sided with the Ropefist; sensing the odds against them. A chaotic battle saw several gang-members fleeing in panic as some died, and Val Baine arrived, intent on making sure the party still lived for the sake of saving her father.

Garmen and his men that remained fell, and the party immediately turned on the Mechanic for his betrayal. Arguments followed, and the Mechanic bailed, only to be stopped by Sanvil, who offered him to meet with the Technic League. The SRO Mechanic agreed, and the two skipped town.

Val and the Party, meanwhile, found and destroyed the Power Relay; not sure what it was, but knowing well and good that it was better technology than they'd seen around most of Torch. Returning to the Tavern, Val entered the midsts of a mental breakdown as she dropped a bloodied shortsword on the floor while the Party attempted to salvage some sort of idea.

So, Torch's guards are now on a manhunt for the Party, their SRO Mechanic has sided with the Technic League and, by extension, Unity, and their best plan at the moment is taking everyone and everything back down into the caves; hoping that finding and saving Khonnir can help make this all better.

Of course, what they don't know is how their actions this session will have far-reaching and world-shaking consequences...

Hello all!

So, I shamelessly stole a crazy idea a buddy had on Discord: Time Traveling back from Starfinder to Iron Gods, and having the party experience the rise of Casandalee first hand (and, perhaps, horribly alter the events that lead to it).

So far, I've converted the first book, and my players have cleared up to the entrance to the Habitat Module.

They began their adventure with an unfortunate encounter in the Drift: The Divinity's wormhole ripping through the plane and pulling them with it, before spitting them out in the Golarian sky. They crashed rather violently into the planet, severely wounding their NPC captain and an NPC crewmate.

Slowly assessing the situation, the PC's were put on alert by something at their airlock. Investigating, they found Val Baine and Sanvil attempting to force their way inside, understandably shocked when an odd group opened the door.

The Party consists of a Skittermander, and SRO, a Borai-Vesk, and an Endriffian. Introductions were somewhat short and panicked, especially when the SRO stepped outside and spotted a flare rising up into the night's sky.

Sanvil was quick to explain the Technic League would be on top of them soon, and that Val should hurry along and take the others to the Foundry Tavern in Torch. Showing off his capabilities briefly, he cast Bull's Strength on the Borai Soldier; allowing him to carry the injured NPCs to town under the cover of darkness, although not before the SRO mechanic rigged one of the engines of their ship to explode.

Val used the trip to eventually get it through to the party that they were on Golarion, suitably freaking out about the idea of them being aliens that came down in a spaceship. Arriving at the Tavern, they settled in and attempted to catch their bearings. With some discussion, Val suddenly asked if the SRO was a robot, hoping to have them look at the repair drone that her missing father had brought back from the prior expedition.

The PCs went to take a look, finding the malfunctioning repair drone that was smashing apart the room. And promptly fired a Rail Cannon through it and out the wall. A panicked and highly intrigued Sanvil returned then, requesting to inspect some of the party's equipment in exchange for distracting the now awoken and shocked neighbors.

At the realization that their credits wouldn't do them much good on Golarion, the party agreed to the idea of going down into the Black Hill Caves for the rewards posted for Khonnir and reigniting the Torch. Going with Val, the girl begged them to find her father as she saw them off; the environmental protection of their armor making the trip through the water easy as a refreshing dip.

Aaaand, they proceeded to pull the Fire Beetles, the Slimes, and the Blindheim all in a single combat. The Soldier nearly dropped, but the future-warriors prevailed over what would have likely been a deadly encounter for their PF equivalents, with only the Endriffian Operative being blinded as they pressed on a ways.

The Brown Mold proved baffling for them, as its chill cut through their environmental protections, and they expanded it with laser fire, forcing them to leave it for a second look. Instead, they met with the Skulks, who requested their assistance with the Gremlins in return for the access cards. The Players had little trouble with the goblins and traps, and slew the creature's leader without much incident.

And that's about where they stand right now. Planning on using the NPC crewmates to get them out of the caves for a needed rest and downtime before they enter the Habitat.

So, with that out of the way, I'm wondering what the community thinks of my current take on the AP, and if anyone had any interesting tips or ideas.

All weapons require attack rolls. They only target EAC if they are a typed energy damage, or if their description states that they target EAC.

Again, the first part is only true in the current state of the game. Other d20 systems have had weapons that function as breath weapons.

EAC is used against attacks of energy. All attacks are made of energy in some form, so damage types that target KAC are the exception, not the rule.

So, if it deals untyped damage, but doesn't target EAC, KAC is the answer, no matter how little sense that makes.

If it deals untyped damage, and requires an attack roll, it targets EAC. Unless something connects it to KAC.

Should probably be FAQ'd

I flagged the OP for a FAQ, personally.

An important point I would also like to raise is that, in the order that the rules are presented, EAC and it's bit about Untyped damage are presented to us before KAC's, so if it were referring to KAC, why wouldn't it mention "Target KAC (see below)"?

The description of untyped damage however does say something about EAC.

And only EAC.

The description of untyped damage is practically the dictionary definition of targeting KAC by implication.

Then why doesn't KAC mention it?

The description of untyped damage tells you that if the weapon targets EAC, the weapon will mention so in the description.

Because it can either target EAC, or not require an attack roll.

As in, if it targets EAC, the weapon description will say so.

If the weapon description does not say explicitly that it targets EAC, then it does not target EAC

This is the exact opposite of the only way I can reasonably read that statement, in context of the greater game.

If the weapon does not target EAC, well, there are only two types of AC in starfinger, EAC and KAC, if it doesn't target EAC, you have to target KAC with the attack roll.

I do agree that there are only two AC types, and if it didn't target EAC, it either doesn't require an attack roll, or specifies that it targets KAC. KAC calls out Slashing, Piercing, Bludgeoning, Falling, and Crushing damage. The latter two are EXCEPTIONS because they really should be Bludgeoning, but are untyped for balance, which is why they are explicitly called out.

Outside of those instances, the default assumption should be that an attack roll targets EAC, as all damage is a form of energy.

It literally says “You target KAC unless I tell you different” for untyped damage.

Except it doesn't. KAC isn't mentioned at all in the portion of EAC that deals with untyped damage. It is presented as "counter to the norm", and the norm within the context of the game is Untyped damage not needing an attack roll.

We don’t need a weapon description to tell us if there’s an attack roll. Is it a weapon? Yes? Then it has an attack roll, because that’s how you attack with weapons.

It's not impossible that, in the future, we may have weapons that simply function similiar to a breath weapon. But a fair point.

What we do need from the weapon description is if the attack is a non-standard attack, or if it’s versus a non-standard AC. So, Blast tells us that whatever AC we’re trying to hit, we do so at -2. Explode tells us we’re aiming at a grid intersection with AC… 5? 10? Whatever that AC is.

Accurate, no arguments here.

“Kinetic” damage? KAC. Energy damage? EAC. Untyped? Look at the weapon description. Does it say EAC? No? Then KAC.

Disagree. Pure energy damage targets EAC, while damage that is "Primarily caused by physical contact" targets KAC. Technically, ALL DAMAGE is energy-based, because that's what kinetic force is.

So, my argument is that if a target isn't specified, the default assumption should be EAC (unless some obvious physical contact is present)

Luckily, again, it literally tells us what to do, so we don’t need you or anyone else to tell us what something may or may not imply. It tells us that in the absence of a damage type that automatically targets a specific AC, we are to look at the weapon, and it will tell us if it targets EAC. If it does not say that it targets EAC, then it targets KAC, as there are no more kinds of AC to target

At no point does the description of Untyped damage "literally" say anything about KAC. You are making an assumption that the wording is referring to something completely unrelated.

So let's break this down.

"Some weapons and effects that use magical or exotic untyped energies might also target your EAC"

This is implying that these damage types can target your EAC. Generally we see untyped damage in situation like Mind Thrust, which don't have an attack roll, and so don't target any AC.

"the description of the weapon or effect tells you if this is the case."

So the weapon description will tell you if you need to make an attack roll, such as the Psychic Wave Cannon's Blast property.

At no point the the Untyped damage imply it can target KAC, so we are making our attack roll against EAC.

Atik wrote:

Because nothing about KAC or Untyped damage talked about Untyped targeting KAC, while EAC actually mentions Untyped damage and so takes precedence.

Thus, if an effect describes itself as needing at attack roll, it targets EAC by default.

...it says untyped damage MAY target EAC, and the weapon will tell you if that's the case.

The weapon doesn't say, so it targets KAC by default.

But at no point does it say "Untyped targets KAC".

It only mentions targeting EAC, because most untyped damage doesn't require an attack roll. So if it DOES need an attack roll, it targets EAC, because that's the only Untyped vs. AC mentioned.

Because nothing about KAC or Untyped damage talked about Untyped targeting KAC, while EAC actually mentions Untyped damage and so takes precedence.

Thus, if an effect describes itself as needing at attack roll, it targets EAC by default.

Doesn't matter.

EAC specifically mentions that the weapon or effect needs to call it out. If it doesn't call it out it reverts to the other one.

And KAC specifically mentions that the weapon or effect needs to be based on physical contact. If it isn't, it reverts to KAC.

EAC is only targeted by acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage (and only if the entire damage output is made up of 1 or more of those 5).

Some weapons and effects using magical or exotic untyped energy only target EAC if the weapon or effect calls it out.

The psychic wave cannon does not, so it targets KAC.

And KAC is only targeted by attacks that deal Slashing, Piercing, or Bludgeoning damage, even if they deal those damage types alongside another.

KAC describes itself as protection from physical contact. "Untyped", "Psychic-Wave" and "Mind-affecting" by no means sound like physical contact to me.

I'm going to stick to my guns from the previous discussion, and say that default AC is EAC.

EAC states it is the defenses against attacks that deal damage through Energy. That's, technically, all forms of damage ever.

Only KAC calls out physical contact as it's qualifier, so it takes over in those instances.

On the topic of untyped damage, EAC states "Some weapons and effects that use magical or exotic untyped energies might also target your EAC; the description of the weapon or effect tells you if this is the case."

KAC makes no mention of untyped at all, hile EAC called it out there.

Under those two points, I'm going to give EAC priority and say that unspecified untyped damage targets EAC.

Damnit. Lets give this another try.

Alienist

Hey guys, new class I've been working on here and there. Based heavily on the Alienist PrC from 3.5, I've attempted to incorporate other less-developed PrCs into it for added flavor. Any feedback is welcome.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B93Q26FwsXEc861woa0rGFsrY--9Pcs4kRFgPtv bI6o/edit?usp=sharing

I'm just posting to draw attention.