This is full of spoilers, but it's the GM Reference forum.
Does anyone besides me think that using the Chase Rules for everything is anti-climatic? I mean, closing the Doomsday Door in Windsong Abbey was once an entire adventure and now it's just "go there and roll a Religion check to use magic to stop it."
When my players hear there's a bunch of Doomsday Doors to close, they are going to expect dramatic adventure and combat. Having them just be obstacles in a chase is definitely going to be disappointing.
Lord of the Trinity Star did this too for several parts of it. I haven't read Into the Apocalypse Archive yet, but I suspect it will be similar.
Why is everything Chase Rules and skill checks? Why aren't there more dungeons and combat? It's a little boring to get to an adventure location and have it literally just be a couple of skill checks to get through it.
This is common in MMORPGs. Some Dev comes up with a new "system" and that automatically means game studio has to shoehorn it into their next game Update (Edition) in as many places as they can to justify its existence.
Nobody seems to understand the concept that "less is more" anymore.
Too many new "systems" (like the Chase mechanic for one) is one of the main reasons why I'll never play PF2, remastered or otherwise.
Paizo is trying to be too cleaver and it's to their detriment.
How would Asmodeus (or his kennel master, most likely) train a new litter of Nessian Hell Hound pups to do the things described or implied in their text in Bestiary 1?
They are outsiders and have an INT of 4, so the Handle Animal skill definitely does NOT apply in this case.
Regular Hell Hounds have an INT of 6, and the text makes it clear that they are not "pets." See the Fire Giant example in the Hell Hound text.
Are Nessian Hell Hounds more like pets because their INT is 4 instead of 6, or would they also consider themselves "allies" of their Master, assuming it wasn't Asmodeus?
I ask because the scenario I'm imagining is that, in return for some excellent service to Asmodeus, he gifted an Antipaladin Tyrant adherent a reward of several Nessian Hell Hound pups for him to use as guards for his lair/castle/stronghold, or whatever.
How would said Antipaladin train those pups to track enemies, attack intruders, and protect the stronghold in general?
I believe Hell's Destiny is supposed to be a continuation of the Hellbreakers plot/story. IIRC, it should cover levels 11-20 or so and deal with the higher-level threats.
Yes.
My question is whether these next two APs are supposed to be Mythic or not?
I wanted to clarify the interaction of Magic Vestment in this thread, because I looked around in several places, checked RAW for Magic Armor, and there are some posts that say that magical armor gives extra armor bonus, which is untrue.
The "magical" part of magical armor is an "enhancement bonus", not an armor bonus, so it doesn't stack with Magic Vestment's enhancement bonus. Enhancement bonuses don't stack with each other, but there's a special exception for shields and armor:
Paizo RAW wrote:
Magic Armor bonuses are enhancement bonuses, never rise above +5, and stack with regular armor bonuses (and with shield and magic shield enhancement bonuses).
Paizo RAW wrote:
Shield enhancement bonuses stack with armor enhancement bonuses.
However, Magic Vestment also gives enhancement bonuses:
Magic Vestment spell wrote:
You imbue a suit of armor or a shield with an enhancement bonus of +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5 at 20th level).
You also cannot use Magic Vestment to give armor special abilities unless the spell specifies it specifically (which it doesn't), because you can't create a suit of armor with special abilities without also adding at least +1 enhancement, which doesn't stack with Magic Vestment.
Paizo RAW wrote:
A suit of armor with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.
However, if the armor's enhancement bonus is less than the enhancement bonus provided by Magic Vestment, then you would take the greater of the two bonuses, meaning that if Magic Vestment gave +2 enhancement, and the armor's existing bonus was +1, then you get the better enhancement bonus of +2 (but they don't stack to +3), but the special abilities would still be available.
Oh god, I had such fun with an Antipaladin of Rovagug as an NPC antagonist.
After a climatic duel over a burning Volcano, our CN murder munchkin Bloodrager struck him down, sending him into the Lava.
True to his oath, the Rovagug Antipaladin tried his damndest to impact the lava "standing".
Apparently moved by such defiance, the Bloodrager munchkin swooped down, and got his nemesis out of the Lava, and everyone was suprised.
Antipaladin:What is this, just let me die in glorious battle!
Bloodrager:Eh, the battle was fun and glorious, I wont let the Lava have your even more glorious loot!
Antipaladin:You are too pragmatic for Gorum
Bloodrager:Look, my long term plan is shacking up with a Valkyrie and drinking with Einherjer, what exactly does Rovagug have to offer in the booze and girls deparment?
Antipaladin: Rovagug is.... S+$%, you have a point
"As an immediate action (but no more than once per combat round), the current user of the Sihedron can instantaneously transfer the artifact to another willing creature within 120 feet."
So the GM might have misread this ability of the Sihedron, thus why you were able to apply it to the whole party. As for the +4 to a Stat, that was most likely a house rule to make it somewhat more powerful, since as is, it's a but of a weak artifact.
Healing this temporal wound
causes the Sihedron to manifest in the PCs’ possession
as soon as they leave this temporal event. Full details on
this potent artifact appear in the previous volume and
in Pathfinder Adventure Path #66. (If you don’t have access
to either of those volumes, you can simply rule that the
artifact’s presence grants all of the PCs fast healing 5
and a +2 insight bonus to AC and on Reflex saves, and it
prevents the PCs from ever being surprised or flat-footed,
in addition to giving each PC a +4 untyped bonus to the
ability score of her choice.) - Rise of New Thassilon, pg. 44
Same thing applies about doing something stupid. Belimarius did something stupid that got her in trouble for a while, but she's still alive and in power in a significant region of Golarion. Karzoug did something even more stupid and now he's dead.
We can't assume any one group's canoncial endings are the canonical endings for the setting. We have to make some choices, and for Zutha... there MIGHT still be a way for him to come back. Kinda not shutting that door yet, officially, is all... but also...
** spoiler omitted **
Please keep in mind that if Paizo keeps bringing back foes that PCs thought they had permanently defeated, it will eventually feel like what we as players accomplished was for naught. We didn't matter. Having very little agency kinda sucks.
I understand entirely bringing back Tar Baphon as a recurring antagonist, since his returns are entirely in line with lich lore. We have no idea where his phylactery is. That was a wise decision on Paizo's part. It keeps us interested, at least for a while.
Zutha, however, is no Tar Baphon. We figured out what his phylactery was and destroyed it.
I ask you to please allow us players, and what we do as our characters to matter. Leave Zutha dead.
Krune was killed by PCs in a PFS scenario and Zutha was killed by PCs in an AP book.
I have not played that PFS scenario, but I did play Return of the Runelords. Zutha is gone forever.
Alderpash is a good one to bring back, though.
Spoiler:
The last time we saw him, he was alive in the Ineluctable Prison in the Ivory Labyrinth in Book 5 of Wrath of the Righteous. In the AP, it was left open that Alderpash could be convinced to reform and go on the straight and narrow.
That could be an interesting development for the Saga lands.
My Sunday group hasn't played for three weeks. This is the longest time my group (of 44 years) has gone without at least playing a one-shot if one or two of us are going to be out for an extended period of time.
Are are going to start back up on the 19th, thankfully.
So, as far as all the resources on the web, like the various wikis and Book 6 of Shattered Star and Book 5 of Return of the Runelords, pretty much all have the same texts describing the stats of the Sihedron Major Artifact.
What I'm looking for are the stats of the Sihedron that, as I recall, apply to the entire party in case the DM thinks it will be too much of a PITA to constantly shift the Sihedron between players and change the upward-pointing part of it for whatever benefit the PC wants for that particular round.
I seem to remember that one of those quick common powers was a +4 to whatever stat the player wanted to add to their character. Could tell you what type of bonus that was, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't an Enhancement bonus.
Does that ring any bells for anybody?
If it does, can you tell me where to find that version of the Sihedron?
Now that James has said, "...and we've never given players a chance to face off against Xanderghul at the peak of his powers as a full-strength mythic arguably the most powerful wizard on the planet mode...," I must say it appears the justification for bringing Xanderghul back (with full mythic capability) is veering even further from how Return of the Runelords ended.
Spoiler:
At the very end of the AP, the players took out Alaznist. Alaznist, earlier, killed Xanderghul the first time and stole his Mythic power. The AP made it clear that if Alaznist had been killed before Xanderghul had been permanently killed, all the Mythic power that previously belonged to him would have returned to him. But that's the thing. In Book 4 of that AP, the players removed the last feather (a violet one), which was the key to Xanderghul's immortality, and when Xanderghul died again, this time at the hands of the players, Xanderghul was no longer immortal, so his soul should have gone to Pharasma's court to be judged.
Where did Xanderghul's mythic power go after Alaznist was killed? In our game, it went to the players. They each had one Mythic Rank from opening and traveling through the Cyphergate to the Time dimension. And killing Alaznist was certainly a Mythic test, so they each gained another rank.
Now, in a game where the players weren't already Mythic when Alaznist was killed, the Mythic could still have gone to the players (there was a LOT of energy/power released when the demons tore her soul apart as she died) or if it didn't go to the players, it was surely dispersed in the portal that the demons opened up to get to Alaznist.
Her Mythic power would not have gone to Xanderghul because he was dead and was judged, or was getting ready to be judged by Pharasma.
Now, I suppose you *could* say Xanderghul had a "backup plan" in case the Peacock Shrine plan didn't work out, but he would have been too prideful to think his first plan (which was the best plan) wasn't going to work. He did not need a secondary, lesser plan.
This feels like it is going to be a bigger retcon than James is letting on. Maybe it's more of a reflection of changes to the Mythic system in 2nd Edition?
I'm eager to see the first book in the Revenge AP, but the justification for bringing Xanderghul back needs to be REALLY good.
Size: Large (Tall) (10 ft space, 10 ft reach. -1 size penalty to attack and AC, +1 size bonus to CMB/CMD. -4 size penalty to Stealth and Fly)
Iivlar Weaving Planar thread produced by creatures called iivlars is woven into your skin. This thread glows with dim light in a 10-foot emanation. You can suppress or activate this glow as a free action.
Languages
Jotunborn begin play speaking Common and Giant. They may select the following languages as bonus languages: Cyclops, Dwarven, Celestial, Sylvan, Orcish, Terran, Shadowtongue,
Jotunborn Heritage
At 1st level a Jotunborn can select from one of the following abilities to reflect their Jotunborn heritage:
Keeper Jotunborn
Your work as an iivlar keeper has granted you a greater understanding of these sacred creatures and the ability to track them, as elusive as they may be. You can add half your character level to Survival checks to track animals, as the Ranger ability.
Plane-Hopper Jotunborn
You were chosen for your smaller size that allows you to move between planar thresholds with ease. You generally serve as a messenger or scout, and planar exposure has granted you a spark of magical power. Instead of Large, your size is Medium. You gain one knack from the psychic spell list. You can cast this spell as an psychic spell-like ability at will using your character level as your caster level.
Sage Jotunborn
You were tasked with keeping oral and stitched histories for your family, your clan, or even an entire settlement. You treat Knowledge (History) as a class skill.
Warrior Jotunborn
Your hardier body made you a perfect recruit for combat. You gain improved unarmed strike as a bonus feat, if you gain this ability from another source your unarmed strike damage increases as if you were 1 category larger than you are.
Even if religious I'd much prefer living among the Rahadoumi assuming my religion didn't require proselytizing, icons, or other overt displays. At least for any religion (or denomination thereof) worth its salt.
My understanding is that ALL practices relating to religion (even private ones) are forbidden in Rahadoum.
The grapple line of feats are a great investment. In conjunction with the Throat Slicer feat and a Belt of Impossible Action, grappling allows you to take out practically anything that can be held onto or that isn't immune to critical hits--and there are feats that can help with the latter, as well.
The Throat Slicer feat is interesting. I'll see if I can fit it in my build.
The Belt of Impossible Action seems to be only for Vudrani which the character I am creating is most definitely not. He is an Aphorite from the Plane of Axis.
One thing to note is that Fleet Charge takes a swift action, as does entering a combat style stance: This makes getting a full attack off with Dragon Style even more difficult in Mythic (assuming you aren't running solo and no one teleports you into melee, your partymates will kill most foes before you can get a full attack off). I was originally looking at using Jabbing Style, but that just doesn't work in mythic rocket tag with the swift action crunch: If there is a way around this issue, I'm not familiar with it (styles aren't really my area of expertise).
Never even considered Fleet Charge because I would be switching stances depending on whether the character was charging or not.
If charging, use Pummeling Charge.
If moving to attack but can't charge for some reason (no direct line to the foe, for example), switch to Dragon stance and use Dragon Ferocity with Greater Vital Strike. (Impossible Speed usually makes it pretty easy to get to the foe without having to charge.)
With Mythic do not count on the restrictions of a normal game, especially not being able to move and make a full attack. There are numerous ways to achieve that with mythic. Mythic breaks a lot of things including the normal action economy.
Any character with the Champions Path can take Fleet Charge as their champions strike. Fleet Charge uses a swift action but allows you to move up to your speed and take a single attack as part of that swift action. It specifically states the attack is in addition to any other attacks you make this round.
A non-Mythic feat (Pummeling Charge) allows you to Charge and make a full attack or flurry of blows. You have to be a Monk 8 or Brawler 8, though.
Not sure a single extra attack is worth spending a Mythic power for, frankly.
I ran some numbers the other day and was coming up with an average DPR that was pushing 500hp, and that's just using the basics (Large size with 50 Strength, Mythic Power Attack, +6 enhancement bonus to attack/damage, normal and greater weapon focus and specialization feats, Mythic Heroism, and Pummeling Charge). This is also without taking potential crits into account.
500 DAMAGE PER ROUND.
I suspect Dragon Ferocity while using Greater Vital Strike could also do some impressive amounts of damage. But you would only do that if all you could do was move more than 5 feet to the foe but not charge it.
Secondly, are you actually creating a level 20 tier 10 character, or is this a character that will play from level 1 to level 20 tier 10? If you are starting at level 1, are you playing the actual Wrath of the Righteous AP or something home-built?
I'm actually creating the character from scratch. It will not be "played" until after I make it for a specific scenario I have in mind involving Rovagug or an especially powerful Spawn of Rovagug.
Taja the Barbarian wrote:
Thirdly, in my limited experience with Mythic, you are probably better off just pummeling your foe to death: Mythic play is rocket-tag on steroids, and if your foe actually gets a chance to act, you probably did something very wrong...
Finally, combat maneuvers are generally just a bad idea as they tend to fall into one of the following categories with very little space in between:
Completely worthless, as your foes are just immune or otherwise unimpeded (disarming a natural attacker or tripping a flying creature) - or - Completely overpowered, as your foes are unable to fight effectively once you use them (disarming a foe who is built around a specific weapon, or grappling a low strength caster who wasn't built with a decent escape option).
Either way, maneuvers rarely make the game 'more fun' overall...
Regarding this line of thinking, I agree that you don't need a lot of Combat Maneuvers to make a non-Monk martial artist which, when I thought about it, is really what I'm going for.
I've decided the character will take Improved Grapple, Greater Grapple, and Improved Grapple Mythic for Combat Maneuvers.
I've also decided on two of the Dragon Style feats and, perhaps, two of the Pummeling Style feats for some of the character's other feats. I don't have to worry about Mythic versions of Dragon Style or Pummeling Style that way. Yes, I am aware that the Mythic Heroes Handbook has Mythic versions of most of the Style feats, but I'm not using stuff from that book except maybe the suggestions to turn down the power of the Mythic rules (Mythic Miscellany).
Do not ignore any combat maneuver. The 3rd tier champion path ability Maneuver Expert will allow you to use any combat maneuver without provoking an AoO, and you can spend a mythic point to gain the benefit of both the improved and greater maneuver feat.
As to what maneuvers to actually spend feats on both Grapple and Sunder have a couple of mythic abilities that you can pick up. Grapple has 4 path abilities, and Sunder has 2.
Sounds like Grapple is the third line to choose...unless anybody else has some different input?
