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The level cap for pretty much everything in 2nd edition has pretty much settled at 25. We've set Absalom at level 20, and that's the intended benchmark for a city in the Universe. Extraplanar locations, like Dis or Alushinyrra or Axis would probably be best represented at levels higher than 20, with, I suppose, an entire plane of a city like Axis hitting the cap at level 25. Agreed. Cool bit of crunch, James. Thanks! EDIT: I would absolutely KILL for a hardback book on Axis similar to the one recently published about Absalom. An AP (lvls 11-20 maybe?) set there could be TOTALLY awesome!
Regardless of what you choose as far as Aroden's final disposition, your Oracle of Life could still keep their powers whether Aroden is alive or dead. Whereas Clerics actually get their divine powers from a deity, I don't believe Oracles necessarily get THEIR powers from a deity. They get them from some "source." It might be a deity, it might not. If they do come from a deity, it may not be from the one they think it's coming from. An example might be an Oracle with the Time mystery. One of Pharasma's domains is Time. It would be reasonable to think that that Oracle's source of Power is Pharasma so he decides to devote himself to her. But Yog-Sothoth is the BIG Time deity in Pathfinder. It could very well be that Yog-Sothoth is that Oracle's Source of power and, for some inscrutable reason, never let the Oracle know that. For all the Oracle knows, Pharasma is his source and does everything in her name. Likewise, the Oracle in your game, W E Ray, could believe Aroden is still alive because they still get their divine powers (Spells and stuff) even though their source isn't actually Aroden. It could be that the ACTUAL source of that Oracle of Life's power is a remnant of a mostly-dead Azlanti god of Healing or some other weird source. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
Are there even any actual wars going on in the setting at all at this point? Indeed. In an outline for a story I'd like to tell, Sarkoris will be a very dangerous for a long time. I'm thinking it will take at AT LEAST 80-100 years to "fix" most of it and that's WITH some very powerful characters and NPCs (including a Sarkorian demigod or two) becoming very involved.
I’m pretty sure you’ve got the right idea because I contacted a great GM I know and asked him to re-run the ending but he said he doesn’t want to do it because he hasn’t played in or run WotR before and doesn’t want the ending spoiled. I told him I understood. We have been friends for over 40 years, so I’m just going to let that drop and try to find someone else willing to run it who also is an adherent of the “rule of cool.” Thanks, man.
That's what Pathfinder Infinite is for. Don't have to worry about copyright if I publish my novella there. The only catch is Paizo gets 50% of whatever I sell. I'm not really trying to make a boatload of money there. I'd just be trying to establish my reputation as a writer.
I emailed the GM at the end of September of last year and it was clear I was expecting to tie up this loose end. I also made it clear the story was what happens in Sarkoris AFTER Deskari is killed permanently. While I didn't explicitly say, "Steve, I'm expecting a win for the party", it was pretty clear that that's how I wanted that campaign to finally end. There are many types of victories and a martial one is the simple. I also think your GM fudged a bit but I wasn't there.. No doubt. BTW RPG sessions make for terrible books. So write your fiction as you think is required to craft a good story. The opening page or two of the novella would have started with the final blow from the Deskari fight. The rest of the novella would have been about stuff that never took place at the gaming table. Things like restoring the Wounded Lands in Sarkoris, rescuing Eliandra at Pulura's Fall, and in the FAR future (like 75 or 80 years), an attempt by Pazuzu to re-open the Worldwound to A) finish what Deskari started on Golarion and, B) get revenge on the Paladin who killed his "son."
I'm sure he figured some way to prevent it from just being dispelled or disjunctioned too. So no one (there were only 4 PCs) had Mage's Disjunction. Of course, the GM knew that. But we did have two castings of Greater Dispel Magic. Both were cast one round after another and, conveniently, neither roll was enough to overcome the caster's Caster Level. Why were you playing with this GM again? I know, right? It's kinda complicated. 21 years ago, the GM's wife (I'll call her Ann) introduced me to the woman who became my wife. Even though we moved 2,000 miles away some 13 years ago, we still keep in touch by playing PF every other Saturday night. It would feel weird to just completely stop playing with them. When Ann is the GM, the sessions are generally more relaxed and my wife and I usually have a better time playing with them. And to be fair, when Ann's husband (I'll call him Steve) runs the game, he's not NEARLY as much of a hard ass about trying to kill us. In fact, most of the time when Steve runs, we're almost never seriously challenged as a party. He almost goes out of his way NOT to kill us. That certainly wasn't the case this time, though. I've been thinking about just not playing whenever he runs. This means my wife probably won't play because that means she'll have to run the technology. She doesn't want to do that. If I take this step, I think there's a distinct possibility our friendship with them will be over and I don't want that. But, to be perfectly honest, my trust in Steve as a GM feels like it's broken and I'm not sure it can be repaired. I tried to talk the rest of our group in trying the scenario again and I gave some BS excuse about how I messed up playing my Paladin so it would give Steve some cover if he felt like HE messed up (without having to say so) and could do it again but with a different result. But no, he emailed me back and made it crystal clear another time would be even harder, or, in this case, more impossible. I just replied to the whole group to forget about it. Honestly, I wish I never asked Steve to run the "Finishing Off Deskari" scenario in the first place. It really has left an awful taste in my mouth and pretty much ruined the story I was considering telling in a novella I started to write. Yes, I told Steve I was writing such a story way back when I first brought up the subject, and that it was telling the story of Sarkoris AFTER the death of Deskari. I feel like I was stabbed in the back is what I guess it all comes down to. Sorry for all the TMI, but I just had to get all that out.
I understand a Cleric of Gorum, for example, will not be granted any spells from a dead god after a rest. What happens, though, with any spells you haven't expended? If you used one after August 1st, would it still take effect? Or would it not work at all even though you still have that particular spell prepared? I ask because let's say I still wanted to play a Cleric of Gorum even after Gorum's death. I'm thinking I'd have to be VERY judicious with spell-use because I know I'm never going to get them back after he dies. Casting a Heal spell becomes a HUGE deal for my character and it had better be for a DAMNED GOOD REASON!!
Wall of surpression is typically subvertible by moving around it No kidding. The GM set it up so that it was essentially impossible to do. We even tried to use the stone shape spell to start "digging" through the side walls, the "ground" and the "ceiling" to go around, under, or over the wall of suppression but it would have taken way too long to do. If we kept insisting on going around it (over it, under it, whatever), Deskari and his "friends" would have kept using the extra time to call more and more allies into the area we had to get to to deal with them.
You are confusing Mythic Ranks and Mythic Tiers. Mythic Tiers are for Player Characters. Mythic Ranks are for "Monsters." Mythic Ranks are distinguished clearly on page 226 of Mythic Adventures under the Mythic Subtype heading. As to where I get my information on Demon Lords having Mythic Ranks, it is here. Check the Abyssal Realms heading down near the bottom of the page. Keep in mind, they only function as though they are Mythic Rank 10 in their own abyssal realms. Empyreal Lords also function like they have 10 Mythic Ranks in their own realms.
I'm hoping the new AP will incorporate the new Mythic rules like the WotR AP did with the 1ED Mythic rules Paizo introduced almost 11 years ago. I'd be SUPER happy if the new Mythic rules were PF edition agnostic so we could use a better set of Mythic rules with ANY AP.
Multiple gods are going to die?? I thought it was just going to be one of the Core 20 deities that was going to buy the farm! Did we know multiple were dying before??
The Every Other Saturday gaming group I'm in convinced the GM of the WotR AP (we finished it 7 years ago) to run a one shot of our WotR characters to kill Deskari a second time before the one year of game time ran out. Ideally, this was supposed to be a fun thing to tie up that one loose end so we could finally put all the WotR plots and such behind us. We were expecting this one shot to be fun, tough, and we were also expecting to win. After all, according to Paizo, they assumed the PCs would take care of Deskari once and for all so he's dead dead. Instead, the GM turned this cool little adventure into a Pathfinder Demon Lord "What if I (the GM) did this or that instead?" combat simulator where he made it impossible for us to win. We defeated Deskari after a tough fight the first time 7 years ago, but the GM went way out of his way to make sure we wouldn't defeat Deskari again. Get this, after several preliminary big mythic demon fights, we get to Deskari's area and he's got to guys there to help him. One was his Mythic Anti-Paldin champion (that's fine, at least he's a Deskari worshiper) and the other guy is Deskari's "high priest" - a Mythic Worm that Walks Oracle with the Succor Mystery. Say what??? It's bad enough that the GM made an Oracle worship a Demon Lord (which they're not supposed to if you look at the Demon Lords entry on the D20PFSRD but he also gives him the Wall of Suppression spell that he also set up so we'd HAVE to go through it (we tried to TP to the other side but Deskari had a Dimensional Lock that re-directed or TP into a pit of lava that we then had to TP to the original side of the Wall of Suppression which FORCED us to go through the wall and lose all our magic spells and stuff). Seriously? An Oracle with the one mystery that could use divine healing on Deskari that also just happened to have the one spell that would totally reduce our chances of winning by well over half? And for what? He wasn't going to use Deskari again as we've been playing a bunch of other APs since then, and not once had he even hinted we'd ever see him again or even go back to Sarkoris and adventure there again. In short there was NO REASON for him to thwart our tying up this one last little loose end. The better story was for us to finish off Deskari and be secure in the knowledge that Sarkoris would eventually recover what it used to be and live happily ever after. Instead, the GM proved he was able to make a Demon Lord invincible and essentially what we accomplished over a 1.5 year amount of RL time was rendered meaningless as now Deskari can conceivably come back and re-open the Worldwound...a decidedly WAY worse story. Ugh.
The stat block for Deskari towards the back of Book 6 of the WotR AP says he is a CR 29 and it does not give him the Mythic Subtype or anything "Mythic" at all. I would imagine that stat block is supposed to represent what Deskari would be if he were to be encountered outside of his Abyssal Realm, the Rasping Rifts. Yet nowhere in the entire AP (Book 6 really) do we encounter Deskari anywhere else besides at the bottom of the Worldwound in the Rasping Rifts, not even in the bit where the book points out we can finish off Deskari permanently. We just have to go back to the Rasping Rifts to do it. As we should all know, Demon Lords act in all respects like they have 10 Mythic Ranks (not Tiers) in their own realms. In Deskari's case - the Rasping Rifts. Since we never encounter Deskari outside of the Rasping Rifts, why does his stat block not mention anything about him being "Mythic" at all?? Having 10 Mythic Ranks should add 5 to his CR, btw, making his final CR a 34. Is Deskari an exception to the Demon Lords acting as Mythic 10 creatures in their own realm rule? If so, why? What about Baphomet? He didn't have the Mythic Subtype either. What's going on here??
Just to add some more data on the situation I referred to above, the GM said my paladin was “cut off” in the Abyss and also that he could only get 4th level spells and lower. This sounds very D&Dish to me, not Pathfinderish. I can’t figure out how he was cut off from anything. It wasn’t like he was trying to prepare spells. Also, with regards to his four domains, he’s his own deity (well, quasi-deity, according to Paizo). He’s there in the Abyss and granting/performing his own miracle. He’s not relying on anything that is on another plane or another deity besides himself.
I am playing a Mythic Tier 10 Paladin (20th level). I have taken the Divine Source Universal Mythic Path ability 3 times. His domains are Law, Good, Glory, and Community. The Community domain grants Miracle as its 9th level spell. Let's say my Paladin is in the Rasping Rifts on a mission to finish off Deskari after killing him the first time at the end of the WotR AP. Is there anything stopping him from essentially casting his own self-granted Miracle domain spell? If so, what is that, and where can I find the rule that explains why not? If there's a rule (or rules) about who can cast what of what planes, can you refer me to that (or those) as well? I know Planar Adventures tells me what spells are impeded or enhanced based on planar traits. I'm looking for whatever says I can or cannot cast a spell like Miracle in another deity's (demon lord's in this case) realm. He has not cast any other 9th level spells from any of his other domains, btw. Thanks.
Having seen the rough outline for stuff I think people will be very excited for what we are unveiling. From the Office of Expectation Management, its certainly a tease/hype stream and not a deep dive, but people will be excited nonetheless. I'm interested in the WoI tie-in products. It seems pretty clear there will be an AP and pawns/maps to go with it, but what about a novel that gives some background on the whole conflict? King of Chaos was a pretty decent precursor to the Wrath of the Righteous AP. Announce something like this, please. And a Mythic discussion. That would also be very cool.
In a way, I hope it is Iomedae who buys the farm. It would certainly leave a space for Iomedae Paladin demigods from some of the more involved Wrath of the Righteous games to step up and take her place. A sort of Inheritor inheriting what the previous Inheritor inherited, if you will. Good way to completely move on from Aroden, I think.
Oh, I didn’t mean to imply that I thought it would be gods vs non-god immortals; I just meant that, in my opinion, non-god immortals will probably be significant players, and something/things from the Dark Tapestry will probably be the greater-scope villain. I’m just (somewhat educated) guessing though! Well, I guess we'll see soon enough.
I'm sorry, but I just don't see this as a fight between proper deities and other immortals i.e. non-gods like Old Mage Jatembe (he is immortal, right?), living gods (e.g. quasi-deities), and demigods like the Great Old Ones, Empyreal Lords, Infernal Dukes, Demon Lords, etc. Having said that, I don't know who the fight will actually be between, though. I think it would be a cop-out to suggest Rovagug will be involved, however, even though that's the big fight to come in Pathfinder lore.
A great wyrm tummult dragon is CR 24; adding the element-infused template (choose an elemental theme of destruction) would add +2 CR, for a total of CR 26 (and adding another template, such as accursed or advanced would get the creature to CR 27). I found what I'm looking for. An Entropic Tumult Great Wyrm Dragon that is Mythic Rank 10 gets it where it needs to be CR-wise...30. It would be cool if I could also give it the Protean sub-type, but I think that might be a little too much. It would also make the Entropic template a little redundant IMO. Thanks man, you've been really helpful.
Some of these ideas sound promising.
Not a big fan of Oozes, either, but when I was looking into Vorgozen, I thought about the Great Old Ones. I think Cthulhu might be just what I'm looking for. Sure he's CE, but he signals cataclysms and stuff which sounds just like what I'm looking for.
The Ravager is a 3PP on the PFSRD site from Frog God Games. It has a built in "ticking clock" to motivate PCs to destroy it; every week it survives, the creature gains 1HD and thus, over time advances in power and therefore in other physical attributes including size. You'd have to make it CN instead of N but otherwise it might fit the bill. Thanks, but we really don't use 3PP in any of our games. It sounds terrifying and looks challenging, though. Crazy idea: could you adapt the Swarm rules to create a Swarm of Shoggoths? That sounds mindless and apocalyptic to me. I absolutely HATE swarms and so do the players. While a swarm of Shoggoths may be suitably apocalyptic, they're just not fun. I was thinking a suitably advanced CN Elder Wyrm Demigod from Bestiary 6 might work. I'd really like it to be something all the players have heard of though, just so they can better appreciate what they're fighting and what's at stake.
I am looking for a monster in PF1 canon that is essentially CN and whose only purpose is to cause mass death and destruction. Normally, I would have said Rovagug would have fit the bill, but since it's an actual god (and not CN) it's really not something player characters can handle. The Tarrasque is a great spawn of Rovagug, but it's N and it's only CR 25. The players are all 20th level and Mythic Tier 10 so around CR 26 or CR 27 each. It wouldn't be challenging enough for them. Normally, the Oliphaunt of Jandelay would fit the bill. It's CR 30, and it's also CN, but it has a couple of big problems: 1. It would have to have been summoned to Golarion and, therefore, wouldn't stick around for very long, so it's not THAT apocalyptic as far as all Golarion is concerned, and 2. It is needed to guard Jandelay. It's something to be held off, not destroyed. Are there any other Colossal monsters that are CN and almost completely mindless machines of destruction that can destroy entire nations if released? Something from the Maelstrom maybe, or some long-forgotten kaiju or monstrously powerful and well-known unique ancient wyrm outer dragon, perhaps? Really could use some suggestions. Thanks.
Yes, since Asmo is already safe.So with the revelation that this week is a member of the Godclaw, who are y'alls bets on the remaining two? Of the 5 Godclaw deities, Asmodeus and Irori have been marked Safe. If there is one more to be marked Safe next week, that means one other members of the Goclaw will be marked Safe since you are suggesting two will NOT be safe. So of Abadar, Torag, and Iomedae, I sure hope it's Iomedae who will be safe, but somehow I suspect it will be Torag who will be Safe. He's the head of the Dwarven pantheorn after all. By process of elimination, I'm guessing of the Godclaw pantheon, it will be Iomedae and Abadar who will be in jeopardy.
"And it looks like Rovagug has Iomedae on the ropes and is powering up for his signature "God-Eater" routine, there, Bob, it looks like it's curtains for the young Inheritor. Wait, what's happening in the crowd? Is that? Oh my, it's Aroden and he's got a steel chair!" Now THIS is an adventure I'd like to see!
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