Non-hostile monsters and primarily-diplomatic encounters are not combat encounters. If you can "defeat/bypass" an encounter with a diplomacy check (et al) - and that's frequently an option in Pathfinder APs and for which you get full XP - that's, like, not combat. (Whether you make that check before or during combat, if diplomacy is an option, is largely immaterial, really.)
Otherwise, nonlethal is always an option - though that's just hit points again; as are save-or-loses. (They just don't work first time against my boss monsters - which ARE emphatically combat encounters by design, that's, like, *why* they're boss monsters.)
So there are ways to deal with combat other than by reducing hit points to zero.
It's just that, frankly, none of my players (like, ever, in the last 35 years) have ever shown any interest in using them (aside from save or loses, maybe) unless they are given an explict in-character reason (e.g. they need somone alive) or if some sort of nonlethal combat was pivotal to the entire thing of the game.
(Which would not be in, for example, the Osirion mega-campaign I just finished preparing, which is Mostly Undead/Contructs/Swarms/Outsiders...)
I do, in fact, occasionally have combat encounters which someone might surrender; but, rather like the PF-favoured morale "flees at below x hit points" they tend to go from "fine" to "dead" rather too quickly.
But when you come down to it, combats can really only be resolved either by a) dice rolls for social skills which end (or bypass/circumvent) the combat or b) by reducing Some Numbers to zero, whether that's hit points (or by spectaular critical hits like in Rolemaster) and whether to KO or death doesn't matter, or like, persuasion points or something.
Unless you're playing so freeform roleplaying that you don't use dice for roleplaying encounters at all. Which is fine; but cosmically, that's just taking the dice roll out of the skill check and essentially putting on DM fiat whether you decide this particular thing is swayed by your players. I mean, diceless system exist and you'd don't strictly NEED dice rolls to roleplay. (Rolemaster, incidently, has skills for tax evvasion and midwifery among so many others, but, like diplomacy/bluff/intimidate? Nothign like it. Go figure.)
But conversely, the dice rolls enable those players who don't have the confidence to roleplay to still have the fantasy of playing super-suave characters, where they would struggle in a diceless system.
And none of which addresses the rocket tag problem that the OP was suggesting to fix, short of by virtue of removing combat entirely.
Given your last couple of posts, GM DarkLightHitomi, you almost sound like you don't really like combat encounters (anymore?); which is fine.
(Frack, I am given to understand that one of 2E APs is all about the noncombat and seems to have been quite popular. Not something I would personally run, though I wouldn't be averse to playing[1].
Heck, even some of my games are more about explorarion and skill-based and Finding Out Stuff, which I use Rolemaster for. I still have the odd combat in those, but it is usually more about the exploration itself.)
But if so (and please correct me if I'm wrong) then it seems to me in the OP you're then looking for a solution to a problem you don't need to have. You'd be better spending your efforts shoring up the noncombat options which you want to have and encourage, rather than trying to mathmatically hamper the existing combat system (since the mechanics you propose do nothing to affect the "reduce hit points to zero" issue you say you dislike).
In the aformentioned campaign I've spent so much time writing, research is very important to a couple of phases, so I used the research mechanic out of Shfiting Sands and expanded it out across the whole module, and like it does, awarded XP for researching topics and gaining information, so there is a mechanic reward (and thsu incentive) for doing research.
(Though again, the Mummy's Mask research is essentailly still "reducing hit points to zero" only with a couple of complications, in that you get information at certain "hit point" thresholds and can only reduce the "hit points" below some thresholds by researching in a particular location, which are themsevles aventure locations to find and access.)
[1]Though I have to qualify that by noting that at this point, if I'm not having to DM, I'm more inclined play *almost* anything...
Perhaps it merely speaks to Paizo and I fundementally disagree on Undead, since I don't see why Undead *have* to be equated to horror.
(Frankly, I think that's something living humans are better at, because they certainly horrify me...)
Which sort of says I was never going to be a fan of what route they choose for an undead goddess, since I fundementally don't gel with the starting premise.
I have long been using my own set of extensive house-rules, a curated hybrid of 3.5 and Pathfinder 1, 3.Aotrs, now functionally its own edition, though it's close enoguh to Pathfinder for discussion to be relevant. One of the thing I did was port all the psioinc classes over from 3.5. The Divine Mind has always posed problems, (though the Ardent has some of them too). I made fairly extensive revisions to it and called it done.
Until today, when I actually came to MAKE one, using Golarion's Asmodeus as a the deity.
In practise, what it comes out is with a set of rather pants ill-fitting abilities that I have been unable to find a use for, coming only from the mantles and domains. The character is... Functional, but the best class feature it the bonus feats and the ectopic ally. Which is rather bad.
So, at painstakingly length and some dubious shortcuts in leiu of wortking out how (or even if) tables, I have posted the current version of the Divine Mind here, such that it can hopefully be picked over and suggestions made to make it... Not suck. Help, suggestions would be greatly appreciated. (I've also posted to the GitP, where the tables are more readble.)
Note: I am well aware that tying the domians and mantles a bit together is a bit of a cop-out, but at the time, I thought it broadened out both Divine Mind and Ardent with some still-thematic abilities on top of their limited powerset. Until, again, I actually sat down to make one in anger to see what I could do with it.
I should note that, basically, ditching the class entirely is not on the table, so one way or another, the Divine Mind needs dragging to functionality.
DIVINE MIND Key Abilities: Charisma (power points, power save DC, special abilities)
Hit Die: D10
Class Skills: Autohypnosis (Wis), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Psionics) (Int), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Knowledge (Planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), Psicraft (Int), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis) and Swim (Str).
Skill Points per level: 4+Int mod
Starting Gold: 240
BAB: Full
Saves: Good Fort, Will
Class Features
Weapon and Armour Proficiency: Divine minds are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armour (heavy, medium, and light), and with shields (except tower shields).
Powers: A divine mind’s ability to manifest powers is limited by the power points you have available. Your base daily allotment of power points is given on the table. In addition, you receive bonus power points per day if you have a high Charisma score; unlike your manifester level, this is based on your class level.
You begin play with no psionic powers. Beginning at 5th level, you learn one 1st level divine mind power of your choice. At each level indicated on the table, you unlock the knowledge of a new power, the maximum level of which is indicated in the table. Choose the power known from the list of powers belonging to your chosen mantles. (The feats Expanded Knowledge and Epic Expanded Knowledge allow a divine mind to learn powers from the lists of other disciplines or even other classes.) The number of times you can manifest powers in a day is limited only by your daily power points.
You can manifest any power that has a power point cost equal to or lower than your manifester level.
Your manifester level is equal to your class level minus 4. For example, a 10th-level divine mind is a 6th-level manifester. You can manifest any power you know that has a power point cost equal to or lower than your manifester level.
You simply know your powers; they are ingrained in your mind. You do not need to prepare them (in the way that some spellcasters prepare their spells), though you must take a Long Rest (e.g. 8 hours of sleep) to regain all your spent power points.
The Difficulty Class for saving throws against divine mind powers is 10 + the power’s level + your Charisma modifier.
To learn or manifest a power, you must have an Charisma score of at least 10 + the power’s level.
Mantles: Mantles represent a psionic distillation of a universal concept or philosophical idea that the divine minds believe transcends the multiverse.
Each Mantle gives you a granted power. In addition, it is linked to one or more Domains (see Class Features). You select one of these Domains when you gain the Mantle. You gain the Domain’s granted power in addition to the Mantle’s granted power. In the same manner as a deity grants spells to themselves, you can draw upon this conceptual force to manifest the spells of the Domain as Psi-Like abilities. You can manifest one Psi-Like Ability of each level of powers that you know. (E.g. a 8th level divine mind could manifest one Psi-Like Ability each of 1st and 2nd level per day). You can choose to manifest the Psi-Like Ability of each level from any of the spells granted by the Domains you know. Your caster/manifester level for these Psi-Like Abilities is equal to your class level (not your regular manifester level). The save DC for these Psi-Like Abilities is equal to 10 + ½ your class level plus your Charisma modifier.
(Clarification note: for these psi-like abilties, manifester level and caster level are functionally interchangable; it is NOT the same as the erudite’s Convert Spell to Power ACF where the spells become augmentable powers.)
You gain one Mantle at 1st level. This must be a Mantle whose linked Domain is one of your deity’s Domains, and you must choose a linked Domain from that Mantle which is likewise one of your deity’s Domains.
At 6th level, you gain a second Mantle, which also must be selected by these criterion. You may instead select a second Domain from your first Mantle if it has two or more Domains that your deity grants.
At 12th and 18th level, you gain an additional Mantle. You can choose from any of the remaining mantles (even ones which might oppose your deity’s alignment). You can choose to select a new Domain linked to a Mantle you already know in place of gaining a new Mantle. You gain that Domain’s granted power and can chose the domain’s spells when manifesting your Psi-Like Abilities.
Most of the powers provided by a Mantle are psionic in nature. Some Mantles feature new abilities unlike any psionic power in existence. These abilities are still treated as psionic powers in every respect, and always have a power point cost to manifest.
Mantles and their granted powers are listed below.
Psychic Aura (Su): You know three basic auras: attack, defence, and perception (see below). In addition, each of your chosen mantles adds a specialized aura to your options. You choose one aura to manifest, and its benefits take effect in a radius around you. This aura starts at a radius of 30 feet at 1st level and increases by 10 feet every two levels thereafter (e.g. 40 feet at 3rd level and 120 feet at 19th level).
Most auras affect either you and your allies or just your enemies. As you become more powerful, your aura spreads to encompass a wider area.
Activating an aura is a Swift action. Each aura must be activated individually.
At 9th level, you can have two auras active at the same time; at 15th level, you can have three active auras.
Attack: You and all allies within your aura gain a +1 insight bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls. This bonus increases by 1 for every five class levels you have.
Defence: You and all allies within your aura gain a +1 insight bonus to Armour Class. This bonus increases by 1 for every five class levels you have.
Perception: You and all allies within your aura gain a +2 insight bonus on Perception and Search checks. This bonus increases by 1 for every five class levels you have.
Psychic Smite (Su): As a Move action, you can imbue one of your weapons (including a natural weapon or your unarmed strikes) with destructive psychic energy. This effect deals an extra D6 points of damage on any attack you wish to activate it on (as long as the attack is made with that weapon). You may hold the charge as long as you like without discharging (even if you drop the weapon), but the charge is lost if the weapon leaves the radius of your psychic aura.
It does not go off on any attack unless you choose to use it, and the charge is not wasted if an attack misses. Mindless creatures are immune to this damage, although non-mindless creatures immune to mind-affecting effects are affected by this damage as normal. (Unlike the rogue’s sneak attack, the psychic smite is not precision damage and can affect creatures otherwise immune to extra damage from critical hits or more than 30 feet away.) A weapon charged with psychic smite deals this extra damage only once when this ability is called upon, but you can imbue your weapon with psychic energy again by taking another Move action. Additionally, you may recharge it as a Swift action by expending your psionic focus.
Psychic smite may be used on ranged weapons, but only if the target remains within the radius of your psychic aura. You can bestow a ranged attack beyond this area by expending your psionic focus when making the attack. This discharges the psychic smite, whether the attack hits or misses.
If you have more than one weapon you must imbue each weapon with a psychic strike separately.
At 4th level and every four levels thereafter (7th, 11th, etc.), the extra damage from you psychic smite increases by D6.
Combat Manifestation: At 2nd level, you gain Combat Manifestation as bonus feat.
Divine Grace (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, you gain a bonus equal to your Charisma bonus on all saving throws.
Psionic Talents: At 2nd level, you learn one psionic talent of your choice from the Psychic Warrior powers list. You learn a second psionic talent at 4th level.
Ectopic Ally (Su): At 3rd, level, you gain the ability to manifest a single special ectopic construct as an ally to aid you in your cause. The ecotopic ally has the statistics of an astral construct created by the Astral Construct power, manifested as Psi-like Ability (and thus automatically augmented to your class level), except it is a creature, not a power effect. It cannot be dispelled, but you must make a DC 20 Concentration check to maintain or manifest it within an Null Psionics field.
It also has an Intelligence of 6, the same alignment as you and gains the appropriate skills and feats.
Once you selects the ectopic ally’s abilities, you may not change them again until you achieve a new level.
You can manifest the ectopic construct into being at will with a Standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. It appears within Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) range, in the same condition (e.g. damage) that it was when unsummoned (except for any damage it might have healed, see below). It persists until you dismiss it or it is reduced to 0 of less hit points.
You can use a Standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity to reabsorb the ectopic ally into yourself, provided it is within the same range. When unsummoned, it cannot be targeted or attacked. Any gear it is wearing or carrying immediately drops into its space.
The ectopic ally cannot heal by itself (unless it has the Fast Healing special ability), but while it is unsummoned, any healing that you receive (including natural healing) also heals the ectopic ally the same amount. (The Fast Healing special ability does not function when the ectopic ally is not manifested.)
If the ectopic ally is reduced to 0 or less hit points, it demanifests immediately and cannot be re-summoned for 24 hours. After this period, it can be manifested again and appears re-appears fully healed.
Ectopic allies can wear equipment or magic items suitable for humanoids of their size, but these items are left behind (along with anything it is carrying) when it is unsummoned or destroyed and must be re-equipped when it is summoned again.
Bonus Feat: At 5th level and every three levels thereafter, you gain a bonus Combat or Psionic Feat for which you meet the prerequisites.
Ascension (Ex): (Capstone) At 20th level, you undergoes an apotheosis and becomes, in effect, a minor divine being. Your type changes to Outsider. You gain the Celestial, Entropic, Fiendish or Resolute template as appropriate to your alignment.
(A true neutral Divine Mind gains instead Damage Reduction 7/– , Resistance 15 to Cold, Electricity and Fire, spell resistance equal to 6 + your HD and one per encounter, you can use a smite which deals D6 plus D6 per 3 HD extra damage to any creature (this is discharged on a hit on any target or the end of the encounter).)
You also gain the supernatural ability to fly (Perfect manoeuvrability) at your base land speed (reduced by armour and encumbrance) via psionic levitation while you are psionically focussed.
Fly becomes a class skill.
Mantle Auras Air: You and all allies within your aura gain Resistance to Electricity 5. This increases by 5 points for every five class levels you have.
Chaos: You and all allies within your aura gain a +2 resistance bonus on saves against attacks made or effects created by nonchaotic creatures. This bonus increases by 1 for every six class levels you have.
Communication: The divine mind and willing allies within the range of his aura can communicate telepathically through the bond even if you do not share a common language. In addition, you and your allies increase the bonus from flanking by 1 point for every six levels you have.
Conflict: You and all allies within your aura gain a +2 bonus on rolls to confirm critical hits. This bonus increases by 1 for every four class levels you have.
Consumption: You can leech power points expended near you. While the aura is active, you can expend your psionic focus as an Immediate action when a power is manifested within your aura. Doing so steals 1 power point plus 1 power point for every six levels you have from the power's manifester. This extra power point is added to your power point reserve; you cannot gain more power points than your normal maximum. This ability has no effect if used while you have a full power point reserve.
This reduces any augmentations first. The manifester may choose from which augmentation the power points are lost. An augmentation that has a cost of 2 or more power points to take effect is lost if a power point is stolen from it and the excess power points are wasted.
If stealing 1 power point would prevent the manifester from being able to manifest the power, you do not gain a power point but the manifester is unable to manifest the power; no power points are expended.
Corruption and Madness: Your aura disquiets and disturbs the minds of those who oppose you. All enemies within your aura must make Concentration checks (DC 10 + ½ your divine mind level + your Charisma modifier) to manifest powers, cast spells, or use psi-like or spell-like abilities.
Creation: All Constructs within your aura heal at a rate of 1 hit point plus 1 hit point for every five levels you have every round.
Death: You and your allies within the your aura deal 1 extra point of negative energy damage plus 1 point for every five class levels you have on weapon damage rolls.
Deception: You and all allies within your aura gain a +2 insight bonus on Bluff checks made to feint in combat. This bonus increases by 1 for every five class levels you have. You can expend your psionic focus to feint as a Move action, as if you have the Improved Feint feat.
Destruction: You and all allies within your aura gain a +1 bonus on weapon damage rolls against wounded foes and ignore the same amount of Hardness when attacking and object or making a Sunder manoeuvre. This bonus increases by 1 for every five class levels you have.
Earth: You and all allies within your aura gain Resistance to Acid 5. This increases by 5 points for every five class levels you have.
Elements: When this aura goes into effect, you must choose to align it to one of the four elemental subtypes (air, earth, fire, water). While you are psionically focused, your attacks and the attacks of allies within your aura overcome the damage reduction (if any) of any creatures of the subtype to which you are aligned.
Energy: Your wielded weapons and those wielded by allies within your aura deal 1 extra point of energy damage of your active element plus 1 point for every five class levels you have on weapon damage rolls.
Evil: You and all allies within your aura gain a +2 resistance bonus on saves against attacks made or effects created by nonevil creatures. This bonus increases by 1 for every six class levels you have.
Fate: You gives your allies insight into the battle being waged around you, allowing them to bend fate to their will. Once every 10 minutes, each affected creature can choose to add gain a +2 insight bonus on any one D20 roll. This bonus increases by 1 for every five class levels you have.
Fire: You and all allies within your aura gain Resistance to Fire 5. This increases by 5 points for every five class levels you have.
Force: You and all allies within your aura reduces the miss chance for striking incorporeal creatures by 10%. For every five levels you have, this bonus reduces by another 10% (until 20th level, where the miss chance disappears completely).
Freedom: You and all allies within your aura gain a +2 bonus on Escape Artist checks and CMD verses grapple attacks and grapple checks made to escape a grapple. This bonus increases by 1 for every four class levels you have.
Good: You and all allies within your aura gain a +2 resistance bonus on saves against attacks made or effects created by nongood creatures. This bonus increases by 1 for every six class levels you have.
Guardian: You and all allies within your aura gain Damage Reduction 1/— while you are psionically focused. This damage reduction increases by 1 for every five class levels you have (DR 2/— at 5th level, 3/— at 10th level, and so on).
Justice: You and all allies within your aura gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls against a foe that has attacked you or another ally. This bonus increases by 1 for every six class levels you have.
Knowledge: You and all allies within your aura gain a +2 bonus on all Knowledge checks. This bonus increases by 1 for every five class levels you have. You can expend your psionic focus to grant yourself or an ally the ability to make a Knowledge check untrained.
Law: You and all allies within your aura gain a +2 resistance bonus on saves against attacks made or effects created by nonlawful creatures. This bonus increases by 1 for every six class levels you have.
Life: Creatures in your presence feel rejuvenated and are more resistant to death effects. While it is active, allies affected by this aura gain a +2 bonus on saves against death spells, powers or psionic death effects and negative energy effects. This bonus increases by 1 for every five class levels you have.
Light and Darkness: You can reduce of increase the light conditions by one step within your aura. For every six levels you has, you may increase or decrease the light conditions by one more step. For the purposes of interaction with magical lighting sources, this effect is treated as a power of 1/3 your class level.
Love: Your allies gain a +2 bonus on saving throws against charms and compulsions. This bonus increases by 1 for every five class levels you have.
Magic: You and all allies within your aura are treated as wielding magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming Damage Reduction.
Mental Tower: You and all allies within your aura gain a +2 bonus on saving throws against mind-affecting spells and abilities. This bonus increases by 1 for every six class levels you have.
Natural World: All animals, plants, and fey within your aura heal at a rate of 1 hit point every plus 1 hit point for every five levels you have every round.
Pain and Suffering: You and all allies within your aura can chose to take 1 points of damage whenever you or they hit a foe with a melee attack to deal 2 extra points of damage. For every five levels you have, the damage taken increases by +1 and the damage dealt increases by +2.
Physical Power: You and all allies within your aura gain a +1 bonus on combat manoeuvres. This bonus increases by 1 for every five class levels you have.
The Planes: You and all allies within your aura gain a +2 bonus on caster level checks or manifester level checks made to overcome the spell resistance or power resistance of outsiders. This bonus increases by 1 for every five class levels you have. You can expend your psionic focus to pinpoint the location of any outsider or extraplanar creature within your aura.
Repose: While you are psionically focused, you and allies within your aura ignore the effects of Fatigue. If an ally within your aura becomes Exhausted for any reason, they are treated as Fatigued instead. Your aura does not dispel Fatigue, it merely suppresses the negative effects.
Time: You give allies within your aura the ability to see just a moment into the future, increasing their reaction time. Anyone affected by your aura gains a +1 bonus on Reflex saves. This bonus increases by 1 for every six class levels you have. You can expend your psionic focus to gain the benefits of Combat Reflexes feat for 1 round. If you have Combat Reflexes, you may make one additional attack of opportunity per round.
Water: You and all allies within your aura gain Resistance to Cold 5. This increases by 5 points for every five class levels you have.
Some thoughts: Smoothing out the ood power proegression (I think that comes from the old mind's eye articles?)
Both it and the Ardent are very strapped for choice of powers (as they come from mantles only), though the Ardent a bit less so, since it gets more mantles sooner.
The manifester level being class level -4 was fine right up until the point I realised that the 8th level NPC I was building could, NOT, in fact augment any of his five powers, becuse his manifester level was, in fact, 4. And he had 32 PP at level eight to basically do crap all with.
For some reason, I took Wild Telent (gained at first level) from the Divine Mind, when I'm thinking MAYBE I not only should have kept it, but made it Hidden Talent as well, if I don't do anything more radial. (Lke I did with PF Soulknife... *pauses to check* Like I AM doing NOW with the Soulknife, since reading my own rules, there's literally no reason why you wouldn't take the alternate class feature as I've written, duh, and I even thought I HAD made it automatic, so...)
Though that again, is perhaps a case of "lots of low-level abilities."
I am going to be honest, looking at it, I suspect I made only a cursory pass on Divine Mind in hindsight, because i perahps at the time did not fancy doing a stupendous amount of work making stuff up for one class. (My more recent work on the Fangshi (nee PF kineticist) laughs.) Dangit.
Hell, let me show you the results of The Best I Could Think To do, given Asmodeus' domains (Domains Evil, Fire, Law, Magic, Trickery/ Subdomains Arcane, Ash, Corruption, Deception, Devil (Evil), Devil (Law), Divine, Greed, Legislation (Law), Smoke, Sovereignty).
Though sorry, you'll have to deal with a standard 3.Aotrs statblock...
Vortan
Human Divine Mind 8 (Asmodeus)
LE Medium Humanoid (Human)
HD 8D10+16 (58hp) Init +2 SPD 40’ SPACE 5/5
AC 21/11/20 (+1 Dex, +10 Full Plate +1, +2 Heavy Steel Shield, +2 Dodge)
BAB +8 CMB +9 CMD 20/20
ATTACK +10/+5 Longsword +1 (D8+1 (+2+1 Fire)), 19-20)
+10/+5 Composite Longbow (D8+1, 20/x3)
+10 Firebolt (D6+4 Fire)
CA Divine Grace, Ectopic Ally, Psychic Aura (60’, Attack, Defense, Fire, Magic, Perception), Psychic Smite +3D6
SQ Resistance to Fire 10
SV Fort +11 Ref +11 Will +5
Str 12 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 16
Climb +12, Concentration +13 (+4 manifesting defensively), Perception +8, Sense Motive +11, Use Magic Device +14
Combat Manifestation[SUP]B[/SUP], Deep Impact, Dodge, Greater Psionic Weapon, Power Attack, Psionic Dodge, Psionic Meditation, Psionic Weapon, Weapon Focus (Longsword)
CR 7
Domains: Fire: Firebolt (D6+4, 3/Day), Resistance to Fire 10
Magic: Hand of the Acolyte (3/Day), Dispelling Touch (1/Day)
Mantles: Fire: Flaming Aura
Magic: Magic Knack
Psi-Like Abilities (Ps): Manifester Level 8
1st (1/Day): Burning Hands or Identify
2nd (1/Day): Produce Flame or Magic Mouth
Psionics: Power Points: 32 Divine Mind Manifester Level 4 DC 13+lvl
0th: Far HandA, Detect Psionics
1st: Control FlamesA, Metaphysical WeaponA
2nd: Energy EmanationA
Equipment: Full Plate +1, Heavy Steel Shield, Longsword +1, Composite Longbow (+1 Str) (20 arrows), Potion of Bull’s Strength, 685gp, 5 day’s rations
Languages: Common
Grunt
Ectopic Ally
N Medium Construct
HD 5D10+20 (47hp) Init +2 SPD 40’ SPACE 5/5
AC 22/12/20 (+2 Dex, +10 Natural)
BAB +5 CMB +14 (+16G) CMD 26/24 (28/26G)
ATTACK +15 Slam (D6+14)
SV Fort +1 Ref +3 Will +1
SQ Construct Traits, Darkvision 60’, Low Light Vision, Muscle (+4 Str)
Str 29 Dex 15 Con - Int 6 Wis 11 Cha 10 AL N
Perception +5
Improved Grapple, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Slam)
CR -
Languages: Common
Again, any help or suggestions would be greatly apprciated.
Contentious opinions inbound. (Frack, My channeliing me Dad with "old man shouts at cloud" energy...)
I looked at the OP suggestion as I thought: "if I was going to prat about with that much maths and table-looks up, we'd play Rolemaster on the regular." And your system doesn't even have Rolemaster's hilarious critical hit tables.
I genuniely do not see the benefit of adding another layer of complexity and slowing the game down.
GM DarkLightHitomi wrote:
Easiest, yes, but otherwise it is horrible. Increasing HP and dmg reduces everything else involved. For example, adamantine armor grants DR 1-2/- depending on medium or heavy, but even that DR 2 is basically worthless because the dmg and HP values are so high.
I run my 3.5/PF1 hybrid with *eight* players and at all levels (my next campaign I intended to end with them being Mythic AND Epic.)
Slightly more years with Rolemaster than with D&D (just) have taught me that you can't have a decent boss battle in Rolemaster, because it just doesn't work, because criticals. RM is basically pretty always "roll dice until you get lucky.") It does some thing well, but, in me old age, satisfying combat is not one of them.
3.x, though, can much more easily do that with what I have found to be surprising ease.
I found long ago, that maximising hit points was the first part of it (especially since I have also long had the PCs have max hit points).
[Sidenote: I also ditched death at -10, because 3.0 imported that from AD&D (where hit points were really low) into a system where they weren't and ten hit points is trvivial. I replaced it with death at half-maximum hit points. (Except for monsters, once they go into negatives, they're dead anyway. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times there's enemy healers with actions to spare to have been able to heal them anyway.)]
The second part was creating a stackable template for boss monsters which increments their hit points, but allows such a creature to sacrfice a whole increment "tank" of hit points to be able to shrug off save-or-dies or anything it doesn't like (Ironheart Surge style). But in a way that, pertinently, still allows the players to not feel like they wasted their actions.
This provides the necessary tanky-iness for boss or solo monsters - suitable for standing up to conceted attacks from 6-8 characters - as well as resistances to the save-or-sucks and save-or-loses, without making th succumb to Final Fantasy Death Spell Syndrome (i.e. anything worth using it on is immune to it).
This has worked STAGGERINGLY well for so little effort (and it can be added on the fly). I've been using it for years, it's probably the best thing since 3.0's multiclassing system; something so obvious in hindsight you wondered why nobody thought of it before.
Is it a video-game-y solution? Abso-fragging-loutely, but y'know what? There's a reason video games DO use that solution.
(Incidently? What gave me the idea? *4E.* The solo monster concept was prehaps the only good idea (and even then implemented poorly) 4E had, but just goes to show, stopped clock and at that.)
(The zero-th solution was to ditch the Death From Massive Damage Rule as another holdover from AD&D (like multiclassing restrictions) which I tossed out of 3.0 - having previously tossed both out in *AD&D* itself. (How's that for heresy? Multiclass humans and dual-class nonhumans of any possible class combinations in AD&D...!))
GM DarkLightHitomi wrote:
Additionally, if you always have to max HP, you have less room for randomizing HP, especially with too much dmg reducing every monster to one or two hits, a difference between the HP of bandit 1 and bandit 2 becomes unnoticeable.
And? Getting rid of randomised hit points is a feature not a bug, in my opinion. Random hit points is a hold-over from AD&D that really didn't need to be kept. I have, never once, in my entire 30-year roleplaying career, given the slightest of fracks whether Bandit 1 has more hit points than bandit 2 as a player and DEFINITELY not as a DM.
I occasionally use the average in some circumstances (very low level, and for summoned creatures), but otherwise everything has max hit points.
GM DarkLightHitomi wrote:
First, a good GM does not need prep to run a game at all.
I must be a terrible DM, then, with spending basially a full day every week, most of the year preparing for campaigns and quests...
That said...
If I am not having fun playing with making up encounters and generating NPCs, but just using stocks monsters out of a book, I would question why I was even bothering DMing at all. It'd be akin to giving me a LEGO set and then saying I shoiuld only play with the pre-constructed models.
GM DarkLightHitomi wrote:
Exactly, something the GM controls, not the mechanics, thus, when the 15-minute workday rears it’s ugly head, it is the GM’s failure.
Again, I must be so bad at this after 35 years; I can't imagine why my players turn up week to week...
More seriously, I also have never had a problem with the 15-minute adventuring day.
If I want to push them resource-wise and put them on a time-limit, I will, but that's the exception, not the rule. Otherwise, let 'em. The whole "four encounters per day" thing 3.0 came up with I always felt lead to three fairly dull encounters and one that was only less dull because the PCs were out of resources. I'd much rather have one or two high-octane combats that are fun for me and them than run four or five or whatever chaff encounters (which are not interesting) to get the players to stick to a timescale that's ultimately just as arbitary; time off-screen is time off-screen at the end of the day.
"But what about the characters without resources?" Which ones would those be? Because without unlimited healing, it doesn't matter how many times the fighter can swing his sword, his hit points are a resource limited by the aforementioned spellcasters (or worse, disposable items).
In my own rules I've seriously buffed up healing spells (3.0/3.5's healign spells every again too much rote copies of AD&D without considering the changed environment[1]), so not only do they compensate for the higher hit points, they stretch out that potential window further in any case.
(Come to that, there are times (in some chaff encounters) when the players of my primary spellcaasters will just cheerfully egg the noncasters on, 'cos they don't think it's worth burning their resources, but maybe my group is unusual.
I mean, it almost has to be, since I've been primary DM for probably twenty years, and DM Forever now.)
Right I'll go away and leave you in peace now, there's a cloud I need to be shaking my fist at or something...
[1]It is obvious that AD&D was my distant forth RPG system and as such earned me no loyalty to its mechanics for their own sake...?
I mean, if you think the only kind of hedonism the goddess of gluttony might be associated with is a "sex thing", that's kind of something you brought to the table with you.
No doubt Urgathoa's got some sex things going on, but really it's the forbidden hungers generally pervasive among most kinds of undead which form the basis of her theming. She loved all the pleasures of life, not just the horny ones.
All I can say it that is the angle that has seemd most prominent in what I've RETAINED after having read, but that, really, the whole hedonism aspect is ITSELF rather problematic for the connotations the cncept presents.
(If you want to take a stance I am so fracking fed-up with sex and all its aspects being waved around throughout human culture and I am sick to the back teeth of it being everywhere; that would be probably fair, as on a bad day, I wouldn't find it at all concerning it some outside horror waved the entire concept of sexual reproduction and all its associated fallout away entirely. (I say "bad" day, like that's not a normal day; there are no good days, anymore.)
But, leaving that aside, even just taking the feasts et al at face value, Undead, again, are beyond having to NEED to deal with food (except for ghouls and vampires, basically) and I think it's just not an idea that I think fits well with the vast majority of undead.
But again, this discussion of it it arguably more thought than I previously gave it; which perhaps is more damning itself that Urugotha who should *side glance at avatar* have been a fairly easy sell to me, is just not interesting to me at best, and off-putting to me at worst.
I'll admit I find your stance interesting, especially since I personally consider Urgathoa to be the most interesting undead god I've really seen in TTRPGs. I can understand why becoming a Lich doesn't really fit with the majority of what she's about, but I love the idea that the ur-Undead...
Laid out like that... I point back to what I said about Cayden last page. I just don't find that sort of thing compelling or interesting (and in fact quite the opposite).
It is, frankly too human for my tastes. I would personally have preferre a undead god that was far more about the transhumanist elements than exaggerated human traits/failings, but I suspect... Like, I am going to be alone in that.
#2 sounds the most fun to me. Also, an inspired way to do that could be found in the truly greatest Egyptian-Flavor adventure of all time (apologies to Tracy Hickman for putting I3,4,5 2nd place), and that's Dark Tower by Judges Guild circa 1980. If you add Dark Tower then your campaign really will be comprehensive for Egypt-Flavor.
Regarding the broken Mask, and I agree it must still sunder in Gameplay, by that time in the campaign there will be many powerful groups of bad guys going through their machinations off-screen. The Night Heralds certainly could have collected and reforged the mask, for example.
Not a module I am familar with. Pharoah caught my attention in the early 90s, when shortly after I starting roleplaying (HeroQuest, then Rolemaster, then Warhammer Fantasy then AD&d distantly behind), he borrowed a load of quest books from a mate at work for me to read. Of them, the two which stuck out was Pharoah and (ironically) Inferno.
(I followed that path of that supposedly beign re-written and expanded for some years before it seemed to peter-out.)
Much, much much later, I picked up a second hand copy of Pharoah of my own. Which is as well, because the Desert of Desolution compilation was clearly in the end period of TSR's "don't give a crap" phase, it's awful (and the quality of PDF is even worse...) I have had to find some bits of the original latter modules to translate, the production values. I'd say I doubt anyone ever playtested that version, but from what I understand of TSR's leadership at the time, I'd be more surprised if it HAD been.)
Anyhoo, doing Pharoah has always sort of been on my bucket list, and after lockdown where one of my mates (several years younger than me) died, I decided I better pull my finger out and actually do it, having already largely collated the material with which to so do.
Dark Tower, while it would probably fit into the same Shifting Sands exploration stage as most of DoD will, has the major problem that, basically, I don't have any spending money, like at all, not even the £12-13 for the 3.5 version at Paizo. (UK government: "Oh sorry, you're self-employed? Ahahahahaha, either be earning so much money you can't get any assistance, Get A Real Job, Loser or sod off.") I will file it away as something to maybe look at down the line, if (HAH!) things improve, however.
That said, this mega-camapign is probably already bulging with 2-2 1/2 AP's worth of quest, so it's not like I'm short of material, fortunately.
I mean, if you think the only kind of hedonism the goddess of gluttony might be associated with is a "sex thing", that's kind of something you brought to the table with you.
No doubt Urgathoa's got some sex things going on, but really it's the forbidden hungers generally pervasive among most kinds of undead which form the basis of her theming. She loved all the pleasures of life, not just the horny ones.
All I can say it that is the angle that has seemd most prominent in what I've RETAINED after having read, but that, really, the whole hedonism aspect is ITSELF rather problematic for the connotations the cncept presents.
(If you want to take a stance I am so fracking fed-up with sex and all its aspects being waved around throughout human culture and I am sick to the back teeth of it being everywhere; that would be probably fair, as on a bad day, I wouldn't find it at all concerning it some outside horror waved the entire concept of sexual reproduction and all its associated fallout away entirely. (I say "bad" day, like that's not a normal day; there are no good days, anymore.)
But, leaving that aside, even just taking the feasts et al at face value, Undead, again, are beyond having to NEED to deal with food (except for ghouls and vampires, basically) and I think it's just not an idea that I think fits well with the vast majority of undead.
But again, this discussion of it it arguably more thought than I previously gave it; which perhaps is more damning itself that Urugotha who should *side glance at avatar* have been a fairly easy sell to me, is just not interesting to me at best, and off-putting to me at worst.
There will be a lot of expositing, I have warned the players that this time they will ALL need to take notes (and there are three plots to keep track of), and as I am setting up all the stuff, I making making lists of what information they will learn.
And with Amenopehus (and eventually the Diamond Sage too) being the PC's allies, there's an easy way to get across any of the stuff they don't find themselves. And my own writing style tends to be heavily expository...!
But I'm hoping that, as tests and checks and knowledge is being interwoven into the mechanics a lot more, they'll be incentiivised to learn stuff themselves.
The Veinstone Pyramid won't be part of the Mummy's Mask, but part of one of the three major plots: the Mummy's Mask, the Prophecy of Martek and Doomsday Dawn.
Extended Plot summary
(right out of my notes.)
Spoiler:
Extended Plot summary
Over a thousand years ago, the Khelish wizard Martek sealed away the evil Efreet Kalitharius using five re-purposed Sage Jewels, recovered from the Khelish rule of Osirion.
The PCs start out in Wati, ready to form a band to explorer the tombs. However, since the incident in which the Ruby Prince was struck with a wasting disease, the sign-up for the permit has mandated a price, one which the PCs cannot pay.
They are approached by Amenopheus, the Sapphire sage, with a proposition. He will agree to pay the permit fee, if they will escort him to search for a missing collegue, Colm Safan. (Starting the the Third Riddle.)
A Pathfinder, Safan had spent years researching the location of a lost sphinx, that had been worked on and buried: the Ravenous Sphinx. He hired a team or workmen and uncovered it, and dispatched and an excited letter to Amenopheus, but neither the the Sapphire Sage nor the Pathfinders have heard anything from him. Amenopheus was about to contact the Pathfinders to arrange a party to search, but the PCs dovetail nicely and more swiftly with his plans, since he can cut out the trip to Sothis and the time for the Pathfinders to act and dispatch a team south.
However, news of this has reached the Aspis Consortium – and through them, to the even more secretive Cult of the Last Theorem. A group of ambushers are dispatched to intercept the PCs. The cover is, of course, that they are Apsis agents seeking to prevent the PCs from reaching the tomb (and thus the third riddle) – but in reality, they are there try to kidnap the Sapphire Sage. The Cult believe that through Amenopheus, they can finally recover the Last Theorum and unlock the Pharoah of Number’s final designs.
The first action of the cult is to one night sabtage the PCs river barge, to buy them sufficient time to lay the ambush to be sprung later.
This forces the party and their surviving crew and Amenopheus to trek downriver on the north bank of the Crook. And as they are forced to detour around a region of impassable rocks, a huge khamsin strikes, stirred up by the onset of the 11th and final phase of the final 56-year period before Ramlock’s countdown clockes zero. (A period of five years, 33 days.)
Digging out from the storm and hopelessly lost, the PCs stumble into the ruins of the Sunken City of Pazar. In the ruins, and the centre, they find the Star of Aga-Pelar. Amenopheus is stunned and overjoyed – this is a Sage Jewel! A remarkable find.
However, in taking the jewel, Kalitharius is released, howling with triumph. But even as he is released, the tiniest trickle of Mythic power leeches into the PCs. Not enough to manifest yet, but to lay the ground work.
Devastated, Amenopheus finds that the sage jewel is useless now, having been repurposed. All he can find within it now is a faint impression of who will later be revealed as Martek.
The party manages to reach back to the river and continue their journey to the Ravaged Sphinx. The sandstorm disrupted the Cult’s plans too, and their ambush is not as tightly planned as they would have liked.
After the battle, Amenopheus will notice that the raiders are just a bit too obvious in their display of Apsis tokens, and on closer inspection, the bodies all have the tattoo of the Pharoah of Numbers (though the significance escapes Amenopheus at the time).
The PCs continue on to the Ravaged Sphinx and retrieve the Third Riddle. On arrival back at Wati, Amenopheus pays the PCs permit fee, taking the Third Riddle to the Pathfinders for safe-keeping, and saying he will try to find our what happened in Pazar.
In the meantime, the PCs start the lottery and explore the tombs in the first part of Mummy’s Mask.
Before the auction of the treasure looted from the temple starts, Amenopheus contacts the PCs. He has located information that might lead them to the Diamond Sage and more Sage Jewels and that might uncover the mystery of what happened at Pazar.
This leads the PCs into Destiny of the Sands. However, replacing Yjalk’s band of adventurers is another group of Cultists of the Last Theorem arrives, also seeking the Sage Jewels.
The PCs are given a temporary boost of Mythic power while they deal with the last third of the adventure and determine the fate of the Jeweled Sages. But when the power disipates, not all of it leaves, and the PCs gain their first, proper Mythic tier.
The Diamond Sage is able to inform the PCs of Martek’s Prophecy, as some of the memories within were witness to the events that unfolded. Either she or Amenopheus also identify the symbol of the Last Theorem cultists.
The PCs return to Wati just in time for the auction and Empty Graves.
When the mess is settled, Amenopehus contacts the PCs upon hearing the Tomb of the Four Pharoahs has been unearthed and may shed some light on the second mysterious cult, leading into Entombed with the Pharoahs, and a race against the Expeditonary, and their secret Last Theorem cultist plant. While the Last Theorem is not itself present, the PCs find the first countdown clock (the countdown wall). However, among the Expeditionary, the secret cultist carries a copy of the Notes on the Last Theorem.
In defeating the Four Pharoahs of Ascention, the PCs gain their second mythic tier.
The ends Part One.
Part Two begins as the Diamond Sage believes that some information on the Last Theorem and the Four Pharoahs may be hidden in the depths of the Sanctum, and asks the PCs to see if they can retrive it (leading into Beacon Below).
The PCs head into Tephu do some major research; Meanwhile, the sages research the Notes via their new sources and attempt to investigate if they can use the beacon to help locate the other sage jewels re-purposed into Star Gems.
In Tephu, the PCs determine that the clues to both the Sky Pharoah and the more recent Kalitharius problem – too recent for the sage’s repositories – lie in the Parched Dunes, formerly Raurin. But before they can set out, the Sapphire Sage again contacts them about the discovery of the Pact-Stone Pyramid of the Four Pharoahs and sends them in to retreive the Last Theorem itself (undercover of looking for the seeds the Pathfinders want). (And gain their third mythic tier from the Pact Stone itself.)
The PCs can then set out across the long crawl of the Parched Dunes, retriveing more of Martek’s repurposed sage jewels and tracking down the Tomb of Chisisek and the Sightless Sphinx across Shifting Sands and Secrets of the Sphinx. During this process, they receive another mythic tier from the Tomb of Amun-Re. On the way, the PCs are harried by attacks from both the Last Theorem Cultists and the Night Heralds, all trying to steal the Last Theorem from them.
The Secrets of the Sphinx ends Part Two.
Part Three begins with the PCs delaying their trip to the
the Slave Trenches of Hakotep, as the issue of Kalitharius is pressing, and instead the PCs must travel to the Glazen Sheets, find the last Star and awaken Martek. However, this is the Age of Lost Omens, and prophecy… Doesn’t work like they used to. Martek’s plan does not quite work like he intended, as Kalitharius also gained Mythic Power from the osmosis of the sage jewels, and gives Martek a sound thrashing and with his last breath, Martek destroys the remaining gems to give the PCs another mythic tier to stop the efreeti once and for all. But this is not without cost, as time has slipped by in both the Tomb of Amun-Re and the timeless places in Martek’s tomb and the countdown clock moves closer…
The PCs now can deal with the Sky Pharoah. In the slave trenches, they can examine the Amber Centograph in more detail and begin to piece to together the ominous end of the countdown clock’s ticking.
With the Sky Pharoah’s defeat, the immediate threats are both dealt with, but the looming terror of Ramlock’s convergeance remains.
Over the next few months, The Jewelled Sages discover the location of Ramlock’s tower all the way north in the River Kingdoms (The Mirrored Moon) and the PCs must go to stop the Cult of the Last Theroem from stealing the knowledge left behind by Ramlock – but they are too late; the Cultist have already looted the ruins and laid a trap!
Combining their powers of Earth, Fire, Wind, Water and a sacrifical heart, the Cultists summon and unleash a deadly Mu Spore.
The PCs must now journery to the ruins of Tumen to confront the Cultists for that last time and retreive the knowledge stolen.
This leads to the discovery of the White Axiom, now buried in Sarkoris (The Heroes of Undarin). The PCs must find the White Axiom, guarding the Jewelled Sages as they uncover its location.
As the Sages are desperately working on the way to use the Last Theroem and the White Axiom, the shadow of the convergeance is awakens Ululat in Sothis and only the PCs can stop it.
Finally, the PCs can use the White Axiom and travel to Ramlock’s Hallow on the eve of the convergance. To get to Ramlock’s workshop, however, they will first have to remove the Pyramid of the Four Pharoahs of Ascention.
Then they can decend and stop Ramlock from ending the world.
The god of vampires is the Demon Lord Zura, actually. I'm not trying to refute your original point, especially with Zura being the most vampirin'est vampire to ever vampire, and sounding real similar to Urgathoa, but I did want to point that out.
I've always found it interesting that, while Urgathoa is the goddess of all undeath, many types of undead get their own personalized patron deities, as well.
I didn't mean it literally but... Conceptually, basically. It is, ultimately, a bit of a "sex thing."
Out of all the most common, popular undead, vampires, zombies, mummies, ghosts, skeletons (and thus liches) - and wraiths, perhaps, thanks to Tolkien. Only one of those is regularly popularised as having sexual characteristics. Hell, out of the aforementioned, only very occasionally are mummies or ghosts made - to be blunt into something considered "bangable." (Frack, outside of Divnity Original Sin 2, I have cannot recall seeing anyone ever trying to imply Sex Things with skeletons... Only Larien....)
Vampires, then, with their popular "attractive" thing and the whole personal magnetism thing, on to of connotations of the whole blood-drinking thing (and how so often that is sensualised as well) just feel like they are... Not only just human, but aiming at the lowest common denominator. And because they are the MOST human, they are the LEAST interesting.
Uragotha's portfolio, by design or convergeance, basically puts her in the same boat. It feels like there could have been much, much more interesting things to do with her other than go that route, especially since, intentional or not, the hedonism (has at least given me the impression of) equatating to Sex Things again, and I feel that's, like, a cop-out. Especially in a field which feels a bit full. Rather than adding a dimension, to just being a goddess of undeath, it feels like it flattens her out?
I believe the overall diety of undeath would have been more interesting starting from a position of beyond BEYOND Sex Things entirely; and why wouldn't they, since sex, is, at its basis, a process for continuing life, something that undead creature emphatically don't NEED anymore.
But talking about it perhaps throwing into more relief even for myself than I had previously really thought, y'know?
And, until something happens, that's what we've got.
(Tar-Baphon becoming a deity would make him too Off-Brand Vecna, and he's already leaning a little bit that way.)
I don't really have much of a favourite deity (even considering that I DM on Golarion because I like reading the cource material which I bought to read for fun, unlikt any other campaign world previosly).
(I'm more interested in places than people, honestly - ask me a list of favourite countries...)
But one or two stand out.
1) Shelyn. It's only been brought up once, but the thing that made me do a double take was that fact we have a love goddess tanking around with a freaking evil=god-outer-horror death glaive puts her into easily Best Love Deity Ever. Backed up with Actually Having A Sensible Paladin's Code (a bastardised version of ehres and I think Saranrae's forms my houserule's default one), the interesting reasons why she has that aforementioend glaive and she was easily the most memorableof the Golarion deities to me.
(And really, love-deities get such a poor wrap. Given that society and media continually tells me love is supposed to be the most powerful force, and all the big heroes are motivated by it are they not? (Even, let's face it, at the core, Batman, because Parents...) Yet in RPGs, in general, love deities tend to be amostly off-colour versions of Aphrodite et al with heavy sex connotations as well.) And that is the best we can do with the vaunted most powerful force in the universe...?[1])
Incidently, the majority of my current game's party are Shelyn worshippers, solely because the bard/cleric/mystric theurge was as impressed with the whole gliave thing as I was and persuaded the rest oif the oplayers (who had not picked a diety, save for the Paladin of Saranrae) solely so he could spam Blessing of Fervour...
2) Aroden. God of humanity, and dead. Not only a novel concept that's been used to drive the world narrative and a great mystery, I'm all for anything that nudges, even a little, humans out of the place they ALWAYS occupy in any narrative, RPG or otherwise.
3) Cayden Calidan. A god who ascended due to booze. I do not like booze. I do not like booze culture. I am not impressed by drunken antics and thus, as someone put it up-thread, succiently, the "god of bros" does absolutely nothing for me. At least he has the decency to be Good-aligned, though, I suppose.
4) Urogotha. Goddess of undeath and hedonism. The goddess of vampires, then, basically. The least interesting type of undead (no, vampires are BORING, most especially BECAUSE they're practically alive[2]), admittedly with zombies making a yawn-inspiring push not far behind. Why do we never get a diety of undeath who's actually INTERESTING?
But even there, these are really just more emphatic "blehs," they're serivicable dieties as far as they go.
Passing mention to Desna, Saranrae, Nethys, Pharasma, Asmodeus and Rovagug, for at least being deities that have held Done Enough in the mythos to recall stuff they've done off the top of my head (and especially in regard to Osirion).
Nocticula I'm discounting because if not solely for Wrath of the Righteous (the game) I'd never she distinguished her from the rest.
[1]"But what about your homebrew world's dieties, Aotrs?" Honestly, I've never fleshed them out much; the major nation is off-brand rome, so they have an off-brand Hellanistic pantheon. But the major three Good goddesses are like, the one who is basically a paladin herself, the goddess of fey,, nature and magic and the goddess of death and the most developed of all the ppantheon is on the other side: the Dark Lord, who is more like Sauron-mixed-with-Thrawn and is, moreover, explictly a demigod. So yeah, I even include my own stuff in that.
(Now, much, much further afield in my work-related-fluff, the love goddess of the United Concorde of Divine Realms - aka that Magical Girl-based stellar nation - breaks the mould more.)
[2]At least the "baddest dude" (sic) of the Undead on the planet has the decency to be a Lich.
But hell, I'm *glances at avatar* probably the biggest proponent of liches around, but, like, what if next time, it was a mummy or a ghost or a poltergiest...?
Context: I am in the process of fitting all the moving parts together for an Osirion mega-campaign, which comprises Entombed with the Pharaohs/Pact Stone Pyramid (3.5), Desert of Desolation (AD&D), Mummy's Mask (PF1), (parts of) Doomsday Dawn (PF2) and pretty much all of the 1E Osirion Pathfinder society scenarios that I can fit, most notably the Destiny of the Sands trilogy.
(The last one of note, because Amenopheus and the Sages will be very prominent in the campaign as the PC's patron, contacts and occasional expositors.)
(Though it's not important to the question at hand this will be run using my 3.5/PF1 hybrid system, 3.Aotrs.)
Thus posting to this subforum on the basis this question is an inter-edition/non-edition question. (If the mods think there is a better one for that, feel free to move it to the most logical place,)
The question has entails spoilers for both Entombed with the Pharoahs and Doomsday Dawn I will spoiler the first post, so anyone clicking doesn't get accidently spoiled:
Spoiler:
To access the pyramid of the Four Pharoahs which is located in Ramlock's Hallow, the PCs (or at least the adversaries) have to have the Funeral Mask of the Four Pharoahs. At the end of the module, the mask shatters, and the pyramid begins to slowly phase back into Ramlock's Hallow. (Which is, of course, the age-old trope of "dungeon collapses at the end" which is fine.
However, at the end of Doomsday Dawn, the PCs need to get into Ramlock's Workshop. However, Doomsday Dawn for some reason (possible not re-reading Entombed with the Pharoahs fully beforehand) assumes the Pyramid is NOT there, but in the material plane:
"Only one structure has traditionally stood within the Hallow: the Veinstone Pyramid. Once located at the center of the demiplane, this 556-foot-tall structure was transposed to the Valley of the Pyramids in Osirion about a decade ago by a party of adventurers who gained control of the Funeral Mask of the Four Pharaohs."
This being especially important for my campaign, since it a) will not have been ten years and b) the PCs will be the Ones What Done It.
So, the question is how to resolve this problem. A few ideas:
1) The mask does not break at the end of the Entombed with the Pharoahs, because the PCs are Mythic (or something).
While this is obviously the most straight-forward one, it also takes away something interesting and I don't think it's a terribly satisfactory answer.
2) The PCs will have to find a way to get the Veinstone Pyramid back OUT of Ramlock's Hallow, so they can get down to the workshop via a) hack through pyramid or b) reforge the Funerary Mask of the Four Pharoahs
2a) While at this point I sort of anticipate the PCs being both Mythic AND Epic, it's prefer the simple solution of "simple smash their way down" to, again, be a little unsatisfying (and a long time, since a cursory estimate from the cross-section in Entombed as being about 340 feet).
2b) Seems on the surface a nice solution - it means it adds another delay to the ticking clock (of a length I can control closer to the time), but one major issues itself, namely the one of what happens if the PCs just discarded the fragments of the mask. If they dropped them in the tomb, fine, they will be able to Planeshift to find them, but what is they tossed them in the desert...? This isn't a deal-breaker, since the puzzle of solving how to find and get the mask bag is I think, a potentially interesting one itself.
But if anyone can think of any other suggestions or comments on my proposed solutions, I'd welcome them.
As gaining information is a major part of this campaign (the Shifting Sands portion of Mummy's Mask's research is being considerably expanded), once I have the solution(s), I can then appropriate feed it to the PCs. But I want to try and get as many of those ducks in a rows as I can as part of preparing the first third (as I won't be running it all back-to-back).
(I'm going to cross-post this to the main PF1 reddit for good measure.)
For the sake of arguement, and because I don't ahve anything better to to tonight in the available time, I might as well share a couple of related bits.
To start with, here's the stats I concocted for Amenopheus a little back.
Having first queried to see if there were any stats (they did not appear to be), I had to build my own.
Sidebar: 3.Aotrs
Bear in mind, anything mechanical I share will be configured for 3.Aotrrs. 3.Aotrs is these days a straight hybrd of 3.5 and PF1, with a strict, urated list of available content taken from both; i.e. it's not all of one and all of the other. It's most of both, but not all. In a lot of cases, if there was a difference between how the one and the 'tother did something (e.g. Power Attack), 3.Aotrs largely said "screw it do both." Trawling through the lists of PF1 feats and spells to add the the earlier version of 3.Aotrs' such (compiled from 3.5) meant leaving out a fair amount of instances that were "not a bad idea, but so niche and against so much competition, it'll realistically never get used."
(Osirionologist and Osirinology feats only made it in SPECIFICALLY because I knew I was doing this eventually, and they'll ever be relevant again after it. When... If, maybe,I write my own stuff, it's not set on Golarion, and I will hace basically used every Osirion adcventure in this mega AP.)
3.Aotrs runs to over 2100 pages (I dodn't think I'd even quite finished the overhaul/expansion when I did the last count), so for obvious reasos I am not going to attempt to un-Aotrs-ise stuff (I'd have to be tracking it all down), but by and large, there shouldn't be anything too obviously alien anyway.
I bring this up here aprtly because 3.Aotrs has its own stat block (which was defined, essentially, by early 3.5 and I stubbornly refused to alter everything when WotC introduced the later standard and for PF1's changes (mine is more compact and I also wasn't changing my carefully compiled stat blocks - I refuse to run monsters out of a bestiary for reason that would mean I'd have to take one along[1]. The only concession made since is the division of Class Features out from SA and SQ.
[1]Lst revision, I had to compile a bestiary of creature statblock pertaining to all monsters that could be summoned, but that's a tiny fraction of the totality!
So then, here's Amenopheus as of the start of the campaign, based in his canon stats of "Wizard 13."
(Of note: 3.Aotrs uses a standard PC abiltiy score set of "base 8, plus 34 points, point-for-point, plsu racials, no base stat higher than 18 before racials." I have never understood the abject fear 3.0, 3.5 and PF1 all shared of linear mathmatical bonuses as anything other than a silly hold-out of AD&D's muted terror of PCs having high stats not being based on pure RNG. And pretty much the day I watched out resident dice god roll up tw 17s and four 15s - with my dice - was the day I decided that RNG would be forever forbidden from taking part in character generation. ("HD" is wrong terminoloy, since it assumes you roll the dice, whereas in 3.Aotrs, the onl thing that doesn't have maximum hit points is some of the monsters (as low-level) and summons.) In any case, Amenophues was build on standard PC stats and ajusted for old age. You could consider by PF1 standards, his higher stats incorporate stuff from his Sgae Jewel. (Especially appropriate, since I will be strongly theming the PCs' Mythic stuff through their initiation to it from Mythic.)
Amenopheus the Sapphire Sage
Male Human Wizard 13
N Medium Humanoid (Human)
HD 13D4-13 (39hp) Init -1 SPD 30’ SPACE 5/5
AC 14/10/14 (+4 Mage Armour)
BAB +6 CMB +4 CMD 14/14
ATTACK +6/+1 Staff of Amenopheus (D6)
CA Arcane Bond (Staff), Arcane School (Universalist), Cantrip Mastery (8/Day), Metamagic Mastery (3/Day)
SV Fort +3 Ref +3 Will +11
Str 6 Dex 8 Con 8 Int 23(27) Wis 18 Cha 18 (22)
Appraise +10, Bluff +12, Concentration +15, Diplomacy +19, Knowledge (Arcana) +25, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +17, Knowledge (Engineering) +13, Knowledge (Geography) +13, Knowledge (History) +27, Knowledge (Local) +21, Knowledge (Martial) +13, Knowledge (Nature) +19, Knowledge (Nobility) +22, Knowledge (Planes) +25, Knowledge (Relgion) +25, Perception, +11, Search +14, Sense Motive +17, Spellcraft +24
Appraise Magic Value, Scribe ScrollB, Jack of All Trades, Master of Knowledge, Master Manipulator, Open Minded, Scholar (History, Local), Extend Spell, Sudden Extend, Silent Spell, Still Spell
CR 9 (−4 CR for lack of spells)
Spell-Like Abilities (Sp): Caster lvl 13 (12 (U))
At Will: Arcane Mark, Detect Magic (U), Prestidigitation and Read Magic (U)
Spells: Wizard Spells -/6/6/6/6/4/3/2 Caster Level 13 DC 18+lvl
0th: Electric Jolt, Light, Message, Ray of Frost
1st: Alarm, Appraising Touch, Benign Transposition, Flash, Mud-Slap, Protection from Evil
2nd: Alter Self, Knock, Levitate, Master’s Touch, Share Talents, Swift Fly
3rd: Dispel Magic × 2, Lightning Bolt, Extended, Silent Still Mage Hand, Extended, Silent Still Scrivener’s Chant, Tongues
4th: Extended, Silent, Still Comprehend Languages, Extended, Silent, Still Hold Portal, Extended, Silent, Still Mage Armour, Remove Curse × 2, Extended, Silent, Still Shield
5th: Break Enchantment, Sending × 3
6th: Greater Dispel Magic, Silent Sending × 2
7th: Greater Teleport, Vision Equipment: Staff of Amenopheus (+2 Quarterstaff), Incense (250gp, Vision), Hat of Amenopheus (functions as a Headband of Intellect and Charisma +4, cannot be removed by any outside force or creature except Amenopheus himself unless first subjected to a Dispel Magic verses 13th caster level, contains the Sapphire Sage Jewel, which has likewise protection against removal from the hat.)
Languages: Ancient Osiriani, Common, Dwarven, Elven, Kelish, Osiriani
Amenopheus’ New Spellbook
0th: Acid Splash, Dancing Lights, Dowsing, Electric Jolt, Mage Hand, Light, Mending, Message, Ray of Frost, Scrivener’s Chant
1st: Alarm, Appraising Touch, Benign Transposition, Comprehend Languages, Hold Portal, Mage Armour, Shield
2nd: Share Talents, Master’s Touch
3rd: Tongues
4th: -
5th: Sending
6th: -
7th: -
Not The Usual Suspects
One other thing that distinugishes this campaign is the restriction on PC character classes (for the eight, yes EIGHT PCs). 3.Aotrs has 62 base classes (before archetyp0es, though again, curation means that any one character class only has a handful of archetypes). And I was fed-up of the players only choosing the basic ones, especially after my tens if not hundreds of hours of work, especially on up-rating the weaker 3.5 classes and massive, maqssive amount of work on the Fangshi (nee Kinetecist) - one of the major time-sinks of that rules-overhaul.
(I straight up-told the PCs if no-one plays a Fangshi, they can bloody well expect one to show up every NPC encounter, fragdammit. I'm not even kidding; Monday's job (Monday is quest-writing day) is first to stat out a Fangshi to supplement Third Riddle's first encounter. (It's actually that Fangshi who cases the PCs' barge to get sunk...!)
So this campaign (co-incidentally, it just happens to be the first with a new party) the Not the Usual Suspects rule has been implimented. This restricts the available character classes based on, essentially, everything everyone has played before (which a softer restriction on some characters classes that haven't seen a lot of use and not recently, which are barred to the player that played them).
So for a laugh, here's the list as presented to the players in the Player's Guide, which I have given them as of a few weeks ago. (I am leery of posting the guide up as a drive link, simply because I straight copy-pasted a fair chunk of the source material from Osirion, Legacy of Pharoahs and People of the Sands as well as the Mummy's Mask players' Guide and unless some of the official people at Paizo githe all-clear, sees a bit unsporting to them to do so, especially on their own forums.)
I have substitued strikethrough for what I just greyed out in the document for the unavailable classes.
Bold indicates and available class. Classes not in bold are available (provided the player has not played that class previously.)
ALCHEMIST
Aerochemist (Archetype)
Beastmorph (Archetype)
Gloom Chymist (Archetype)
Grenadier (Archetype)
Vaultbreaker (Archetype)
Vivisectionist (Archetype)
ANTIPALADIN[2]
Unholy Terror (Archetype)
Intulo Templar (Archetype)
[2] Restricted because Paladin is, and because of my standing rule "either everyone s Evil or no-one is" (and the fact we have a lot of standing parties that are Evil means it's not all that uncommon, those they tend to be more of the quarterly day quest groups.
[3]3.5's Knight stabbed Cavalier, stole a lot of it's stuff and made it and Samurai and made them into its own archtypes. It also is noted to the PCs that while these are available options, classes dependant on mounts not being the best ideas for tomb-exploration...!
[4] 3.5's prestidge class turned into an archetype. It's on the banned list (this time) because of frankly, Prince Khalim from our (pre-PF1 integration) 3.Aotrs-conversion of Night Below, who was a Rogue/Ninga/Swordsage/Onivisible Blade. Not helped by the flipping module handing ut Wings of Flying in basically the first encounter, so I had 17 levels of dealing with a flying invisible Sneak Attack with a ludicrous luff skil so EVEN WHEN dealing with the numerous Kuo-Toa, them being able to see him didn't matter...!
For the sake of argument, I might as well post the work so far. I spent much of the yeat paused while I did another major rules overhaul that ballooned out of control, but I have started back. I'd totally forgotten about the this thread until recently.
One thing I initially missed was the Ravenous Sphinx (location of the Third Riddle) is only a few miles south of Wati. Whcih is a bit odd, since having missed that map note, its text said "in shadows of the Brazen Peaks" which, in no uncertain terms, a few miles south of Wati it is not.
...was based on the description (since Third Riddle predated having a little map), and because it fitted better with the module. So now I have just had to explain that the Ravenous Sphinx on the map... Isn't the real one, but a misidenified sphinx. Which explais why no bugger got into it until Colm Safan did because t'weren't the real one.
This placement where it is is important, as getting to it brings the PCs past where I set up Pazar, which will be part of the prologue.
The plot and progression has been ironed out. Destiny of the Sands proved to be an superlative dovetail into the whole thing. The [scholar] I had previously mentioned? Now Amenopheus, down on his luck. He provides an ideal in, and making Martek having used and repurposed Sage Jewels into the various star gems ties in narratively and thematically (with Martek-as-Keleshite despoiling useless old Osirion stuff). It means that, if Amenopheus accompanies the PCs to start with - just to get him to Pazar - I can be sure that the star gem there IS taken and the efreeti released, kicking off the DoD plot.
(In order to make sure he doesn't dominate the 2st level PCs, after being kicked out by the Ruby Prince, he's recently had his spellbook nicked. So he only has a load of low-level, mostly combat-rubbish spells. But conveniantly, he also serves as a go-to selling-on point for any scrolls the PCs fid, while he painstakingly rebuilds his spellbook.)
Amenopheus can thus be helping the PCs between quests, pointing them in various directions (e.g. Entombed with the Pharoahs etc) that are not on the critical path.
The fact that Destiny of the Sands brings in mythic provides a perfect excuse for the PC's mythic - they just keep a bit after that path.
Really all dovetails in nicely!
Timeline/ Sequence
DoD: The Sunken City of Pazar
Third Riddle
MM: The Half-Dead City
Destiny of the Sands: A Bitter Bargain
Destiny of the Sands: Race to Seeker’s Folly
Destiny of the Sands: Sanctum of the Sages
MM: Empty Graves
AE: Entombed with the Phaorahs
Beacon Below
MM: Shifting Sands (Part One)
AE: Pact Stone Pyramid
MM: Shifting Sands (Part Two)
DoD: The Tomb of Amun-Re
DoD: Oasis of the White Palm
MM: Secrets of the Sphinx
DoD: The Tomb of Martek
MM: Slaves Trenches of Hakotep
MM: Pyramid of the Sky Pharoah
MM: Ulunat Stirs
MM: Vengeance From the First Age
AE: Doomsday Dawn When Stars Go Dark
Prologue
Start in Wati
• PCs want to form band to explore tombs, require liscense (too expensive) Amenopheus offers to pay if they help looking for missing friend
Journey to Ravenous Sphinx
• Boat sabotaged by Cult of Last Theorum agents disguised as Aspis Consortium agents (also heading to the Sphinx to search for the Last Theorum)
• PCs have to trek downriver on north bank , have to make a detour around an area of cliffs
• Sandstorm caused by Aucturn Engima’s final 11th phase gets them extreme lost
DoD: The Sunken City of Pazar
• PCs release Khalithanus (rumours of his action heard through next step) and recover the Star of Aga-Pelar
Third Riddle
• PCs secure 3rd riddle, again encounter Cult of Last Theorum agents disguised as Apsis Consortium agents seeking Last Theorum
• Uneventful trip back to Wati
Part 1: Secret of the Tombs MM: The Half-Dead City
Destiny of the Sands
• Amenopheus and the PCs find the Diamond Sage
• Mythic Tier 1
MM: Empty Graves
• Amenopheus gets PCs to race to tomb looking for Last Theorum
AE: Entombed with the Phaorahs
Part 2: Desert of Desolation Beacon Below
• The Diamond Sage asks the PC to help clear out the lower levels of the sanctum.
MM: Shifting Sands (Part One)
• Research on Khalithanus (suggest Martek’s stones are in Parched Dunes)
• Research on Aucturn Engima (limited)
AE: Pact Stone Pyramid
• Amenopheus gets to go to Pact Stone Pyramid before Cult of Last Theorum can enter it
• PCs recover Last Theorum
• Mythic Tier 2
MM: Shifting Sands (Part Two)
DoD: The Tomb of Amun-Re
• PCs recover Star of Mo-Pelar
• Mythic Tier 3?
DoD: Oasis of the White Palm
• PCs recover Star of Khan-Pelar from the Temple of Set
• PCs recover Star of Shah-Pelar from the Crypt of Bader Al-Mosak
MM: Secrets of the Sphinx
Part 3: Convergeance
[b]DoD: The Tomb of Martek
• PCs recover Star of Melos-Pelar from the Cursed City of Stone
• PCs release Martek and defeat Khalithanus
• Mythic Tier 4?
MM: Slaves Trenches of Hakotep
• PCs examine Amber Centograph
MM: Pyramid of the Sky Pharoah
MM: Ulunat Stirs
MM: Vengeance From the First Age
AE: Doomsday Dawn Heroes of Undarin
?? Tumen and the Cult of the Last Theorem?
AE: Doomsday Dawn When Stars Go Dark
(I may yet squeeze in some fo the other outstanding Osirion modules, but those are further removed; Rebel's Ransom and Risen from the Sand might make for location-sites in the desert crawl, though.)
Extended Plot summary
A thousand years ago, the Khelish wizard Martek sealed away the evil Efreet Khalithalus using five re-purposed Sage Jewels, recovered from the Khelish rule of Osirion.
The PCs start out in Wati, ready to form a band to explorer the tombs. However, since the incident in which the Ruby Prince was struck with a wasting disease, the sign-up for the permit has mandated a price, one which the PCs cannot pay.
They are approached by Amenopheus, the Sapphire sage, with a proposition. He will agree to pay the permit fee, if they will escort him to search for a missing collegue, Colm Safan. (Starting the the Third Riddle.)
A Pathfinder, Safan had spent years researching the location of a lost sphinx, that had been worked on and buried: the Ravenous Sphinx. He hired a team or workmen and uncovered it, and dispatched and an excited letter to Amenopheus, but neither the the Sapphire Sage nor the Pathfinders have heard anything from him. Amenopheus was about to contact the Pathfinders to arrange a party to search, but the PCs dovetail nicely and more swiftly with his plans, since he can cut out the trip to Sothis and the time for the Pathfinders to act and dispatch a team south.
However, news of this has reached the Aspis Consortium – and through them, to the even more secretive Cult of the Last Theorem. A group of ambushers are dispatched to intercept the PCs. The cover is, of course, that they are Apsis agents seeking to prevent the PCs from reaching the tomb (and thus the third riddle) – but in reality, they are there try to kidnap the Sapphire Sage. The Cult believe that through Amenopheus, they can finally recover the Last Theorum and unlock the Pharoah of Number’s final designs.
The first action of the cult is to one night sabtage the PCs river barge, to buy them sufficient time to lay the ambush to be sprung later.
This forces the party and their surviving crew and Amenopheus to trek downriver on the north bank of the Crook. And as they are forced to detour around a region of impassable rocks, a huge khamsin strikes, stirred up by the onset of the 11th and final phase of the final 56-year period before Ramlock’s countdown clockes zero. (A period of five years, 33 days.)
Digging out from the storm and hopelessly lost, the PCs stumble into the ruins of the Sunken City of Pazar. In the ruins, and the centre, they find the Star of Aga-Pelar. Amenopheus is stunned and overjoyed – this is a Sage Jewel! A remarkable find.
However, in taking the jewel, Khalithalus is released, howling with triumph. But even as he is released, the tiniest trickle of Mythic power leeches into the PCs. Not enough to manifest yet, but to lay the ground work.
Devastated, Amenopheus finds that the sage jewel is useless now, having been repurposed. All he can find within it now is a faint impression of who will later be revealed as Martek.
The party manages to reach back to the river and continue their journey to the Ravaged Sphinx. The sandstorm disrupted the Cult’s plans too, and their ambush is not as tightly planned as they would have liked.
After the battle, Amenopheus will notice that the raiders are just a bit too obvious in their display of Apsis tokens, and on closer inspection, the bodies all have the tattoo of the Pharoah of Numbers (though the significance escapes Amenopheus at the time).
The PCs continue on to the Ravaged Sphinx and retrieve the Third Riddle. On arrival back at Wati, Amenopheus pays the PCs permit fee, taking the Third Riddle to the Pathfinders for safe-keeping, and saying he will try to find our what happened in Pazar.
In the meantime, the PCs start the lottery and explore the tombs in the first part of Mummy’s Mask.
Before the auction of the treasure looted from the temple starts, Amenopheus contacts the PCs. He has located information that might lead them to the Diamond Sage and more Sage Jewels and that might uncover the mystery of what happened at Pazar.
This leads the PCs into Destiny of the Sands. However, replacing Yjalk’s band of adventurers as another group of Cultists of the Last Theorem arrives, also seeking the Sage Jewels.
The PCs are given a temporary boost of Mythic power while they deal with the last third of the adventure and determine the fate of the Jeweled Sages. But when the power disipates, not all of it leaves, and the PCs gain their first, proper Mythic tier.
The Diamond Sage is able to inform the PCs of Martek’s Prophecy, as some of the memories within were witness to the events that unfolded. Either she or Amenopheus also identify the symbol of the Last Theorem cultists.
The PCs return to Wati just in time for the auction and Empty Graves.
When the mess is settled, Amenopehus contacts the PCs upon hearing the Tomb of the Four Pharoahs has been unearthed and may shed some light on the second mysterious cult, leading into Entombed with the Pharoahs, and a race against the Expeditonary, and their secret Last Theorem cultist plant. While the Last Theorem is not itself present, the PCs find the first countdown clock. However, among the Expeditionary, the secret cultist carries a copy of the Note of the Last Theorem.
The Diamond Sage believes thast some information on the Last Theorem and the Four Pharoahs may be hidden in the depths of the Sanctum, and asks the PCs to see if they can retrive it (leading into Beacon Below).
The PCs head into Tephu do some major research; Meanwhile, the sages research the Notes via their new sources and attempt to investigate if they can use the beason to help locate the other sage jewels re-purposed into Star Gems.
There, the PCs determine that the clues to both the Sky Pharoah and the more recent Khalithalus problem – to recent for the sage’s repositories – lie in the Parched Dunes. But before they can set out, the Sapphire Sage again contacts them about the discovery of the Pact-Stone Pyramid of the Four Pharoahs and sends them in to retreive the Last Theorem itself (undercover of looking for the seeds the Pathfinders want). (And gain their second mythic tier from the Pact Stone itself.)
The PCs can then set out across the long crawl of the Parched Dunes, retriveing more of Martek’s repurposed sage jewels and tracking down the Tomb of Chisisek and the Sightless Sphinx across Shifting Sands and Secrets of the Sphinx.
Before they can go to the Slave Trenches of Hakotep, however, the issue of Khalithalus is pressing, and the PCs must travel to the Glazen Sheets, find the last Star and awaken Martek. However, Martek’s plan does not quite work like he intended, as Khalithalus also gained Mythic Power from the osmosis of the sage jewels, and with his last breath, he destroys the remaining gems to give the PCs a third mythic tier to stop the efreeti once and for all. But this is not without cost, as time has slipped by in both the Tomb of Amun-Re and the timeless places in Martek’s tomb.
The PCs now can deal with the Sky Pharoah. In the slave trenches, they can examine the Amber Centograph in more detail and begin to piece to together the ominous end of the countdown clock’s ticking.
With the Sky Pharoah’s defeat, the immediate threats are both dealt with, but the looming terror of Ramlock’s convergeance remains. Over the next few months, the PCs must recover the White Axiom and deal with the Cult and deal with the problems the shadow of the convergeance is awakening, which only they can deal with, like the awakening of Ululat.
Finally, the PCs can use the White Axiom and travel to Ramlock’s Hollow on the eve of the convergance and stop Ramlock from ending the world.
___________________________
I have gotten up as far as actually writing to the point of the first encounter in the Third Riddle.
I've also been re-reading all the Osirion source material[1]. Aside from me making several changes to my fluff dialogue, for the end game, I feel like the post-Mummy's Mask bit (while time is killed before the conjuction) could be further buffed out by bringing in our mate An-Hepsu XI somehow, since him getting loose or something (perhaps with a legiong of undead-ified former celestials) would be kind of the thing a top-end level/Epic Mythic party could deal with.
Likewise, a trip to Pyramid of Kamaria to stop her an' all might also be a side diversion. (Since the PCs wouldn't exactly need to worry too much about the nonwritten MegaDungeon at that level...!)
If there is still any vague interest beyond this point, I can try and keep a bit more updated.
[1]What prompted me to post up here again was finding the version of the Golarion used on the Pathfinder wiki and Wati being in utterly yhe wrong place. It is explcitly in the source material at teh confluence of the Asp and Crook where the Spinix starts, and tha map version has it well south of the Ravenous Sphinx nowhere near the placement on the official maps. So far off, I was like "did a magical event move it or something...?" If I knew how to contact the map person, I'd let them know, but...)
So as I was reminded today, Create Water is something of a problem.
It is an example of why I call a story-breaking spell. A spell which, while it might not have any particularly mechanic-breaking power, completely circumvents some challenges - and also undermine the actual world-building, unless playing a tippy-verse style campaign. (Which I wouldn't, personally.)
In this specific case, I am running a mega-campaign in Osirion, framed around the Mummy's Mask adventure path, but mixing in AD&D's Deserts of Desolation (into the middle two books in that relavnt section0, and as many PF1 Osirion modules and society bits as I could cram in.
The PCs will reach the relevant part of Shifting Sands at a first-order magnitude pass estimated level of 8. (It might be higher.)
(I'm playing a hybrid of 3.5/PF1, though it is more PF1 than 3.5 at this point.)
According to the rules a Medium creature ina hot environment requires 1 gallon of water per day, two if the temperature spikes.
Create Water, a 0th level spell, can create 2 gallons/level.
In 3.5, this would mean a single spellcaster would only be able to cast it four times. (8 gallaons/level.) Pathfinder 1 has this unlimited, but I have already capped some captrips - Create Water among them, along with 3.5's Cure/Inflict Minor Wounds - to only be able to be cast four times (same number as you would in 3.5) before being expended.
However, that's still 64 gallons of water per day at level 8 (from a single 0th level spell slot) - eight cubic feet, so maybe a bathfull? That means a single 0th level spell slot can obiviate the need for the party to carry water, as that would be enough for eight party members AND THEIR CAMELS (at 4 gallons/day so a total of 40 gallons), but horror of horrors, they'd require a second 0th level spell slot for hot days (where they'd need 80 gallons).
This kind of defeats the point of, like, ever having any challenge in survival.
"But Aotrs, adventurers shouldn't ever have to worry about being attacked resting or food or water, that's something that they should be able to hand-wave away as never being important!" I disagree and I don't want them to do that. Especially in a campaign in which that's... Kind of a point.
So, I need to fix one of two things.
One, nerf Create Water; either by reducing the amount it creates, or perhaps more reasonably, limiting the amount of water it can create per cast (ala spell damage dice cap) - or even, perhaps, raising the level of the spell. To the point it should mitigate - but not obiviate - the amount of water the PCs will have to deal with.
Two, adjudicate whether the quoted 1-2 gallons of water per day is actually (close enough to being) right and to adjust if not.
I am entirely open to other suggestions on how to make this work; perhaps by making sure the PCs carry sufficient containers for that water, but that seems (by the time you add a camel) almost trivial to fix.
How did everyone else handle this in Mummy's Mask specifically?
One other factor in play in this specific case is a limitation of the character classes the PCs can choose - specifially, they are not allowed to have any of the classes that have seen regular use (which basically wipes out the entire core classes of both 3.5/PF1), which should mitigate stuff like Rope Trick/Magnificant Mansion et al shanigans.
(This time. I was EXTREMELY generous to the current campaign's party in allowing the wizard to have a special, upgraded version of Rope Trick that was 3rd level but did not asplode when the party took theie Handy Haversacks in it when I realised that was what would happen with the regular version that they had been using.)
Create Food and Water is another potential problem, but at least that's coming off a 3rd level spell slot and would require either and oracle burnig a spell learned or a shaman in the party, neither of which is guarenteed; and scrolls, of course, would cost more.
Personally, this is one thing I think is a very strong point in Paizo's favour and I wish everyone else did it too. Having been running pre-published modules and quasi-APs before there were APs - especially in coverted AD&D modules - for decades, one thing that was always VERY noticable was the that almost everything (in almost every RPG, not just D&D) was all basically mostly constrained to core rules, with the occasional extra. This automatically made the PCs special, because they had access to everything that wasn't in the core rules (including a lot of the better stuff - core 3.5 is especially unbalanced and unfavourable to noncasters).
The quantum leap of Paizo putting up EVERYHING on Nethys was, in my opinion, as much a masterstroke as 3.0 was over AD&D itself and I can't understand why it hasn't become the industry default. Because that meant they DIDN'T have to do that in their adventures, like they did if you had to expect everyone to physically have the books to use something in a pre-written adventure. That means more varity for the DM (because there's a point at which "another NPC wizard/cleric" gets really old, nevermind you end up having to revise their sub-par core spell list on top) and it provides a bit more immersion - and, of course, ensures that noncore PCs at least stand some chance of getting some magic items by default.
messy wrote:
Least favorite was Hell’s Vengeance. Evil characters? No, thanks.
I haven't looked at Hell's Vengeance myself, but mostly because we're not exactly short of evil parties in rotation. Yes, in the plural. We have 1/3 3.x fantasy parties (the oone being the Dark Lord's uncover dirty black ops team), plus the replacements for the twenty-year real-time-long Rolemaster/Spacemaster party (which is incidentally Evil, since the premise is sort of explore-y, Stargate-like and the power which had the most detail and thus required the least amount of effort to prepare just happened to be the high-tech magical space liches (ironically a DOWNGRADE from the previous random adventurers)) and, techincally, the one D20 Star Wars party in rotation - though we havn't played it in many years - is an Empire commando fighter squadron like Evil Rogue Squadron. (We have actually played more Empire parties than non-Empire parties over the years in Star Wars...)
3rd party Way of the Wicked is on my list of APs I have bought and intend to run one day, but first the group needs to survive long enough to run the ones I really, really want to run, which includes Irpon Gods and what I'm currently working on, incorporating basically ALL of Paizo's released Osirion material alongside AD&D Deserts of Desolation into one mega-campaign.
(First, I need to finish re-writing mythic a bit, to make it fall somewhere beteen tabletop and Owlcat's version, which I like as a little bit more as a side grade....!)
IIRC - get rid of mythic power attack - mythic vital strike - and limit mythic power to 1 point per turn (or min points to activate ability - there are a few that take more).
That cleaned up about 90% of the crazy for us - it only started to run away at the very end - and it is possible to still kick the players around - but takes a ton of prep to do so... so caveat emptor.
That was really the biggest issue with high level PF1 - the number of feats and abilities and rules you had to handle as a GM and prep work if you wanted to have a tough fight .... it was a ton of work, the 'easy' way to do it is of course just keep upping the CR of the bad guy - but that leads to rocket tag - it is possible to challenge a level 18 tier 3 mythic party with lower level stuff - but it is rough.
Actually, those are in (at least, in the form they are in Owlcat!WotR), it was more things like "PCs all get effectively Evasion/Mettle verses non-mythic" that I saw as instantly off-putting. PCs doing 700 damage per round at 18th-level non-mythic is something I'm already dealing with, and while the extra damage is more, it's dimishingly returns more by that point anyway. (And it's MUCH easier for me to counter high damage by just having, like enemies with more hit point tanks.)
As Owlcat's mythic doesn't HAVE mythic power usages, I'm sharply limiting uses anyway; and there basically won't be mythic spells at all[1]; instead, Owlcat's +4 spells of each level per day and 24-hour buffs are the replacements; that won't make the PCs WORSE, it'll just mean maybe an hour-adventuring day instead of fifteen minutes. But I will take note of your points regardless on said daily uses.
[1]Didn't like the concept to start with, and I was not going through all the 3.5 and homebrew spells to add mythic versions so that it wasn't just a subsystem bolted-on (which was the entire poit of writing a proper hybrid to properly intergrate 3.5 and PF1 content).
Certainly for 3.5/PF1, top-level play is extremely intensive and requries a lot of work.
I HAVE run all the way into Epic in 3.5 (low epic, no more than maybe 21-23-ish, I forget), but that was crazy work. With six PCs.
My (six-strong) party completed Rise of the Runelords at 18th (in my 3.5/PF1 hybrid) and they were probably stronger and it was horrendous! (Fun, but wow, crazy. Even with my boss monsters with multiple maximum hit-blocks and being able to burn away bad status effects.)
Karzoug himself lasted about one session and maybe two or three rounds? (Admittedly, becauase I did hand them a benefit so that they didn't all instantly die when his first prepared spell, (10th Mass Flesh to Stone...) didn't bork the whole group immediately, but...)
It was never a surprise that Paizo didn't go all the way up there most of the time, it's just so intensive and requires so much space. (Karzoug's adjusted stat block ran to one-and-half-pages of calibri-size-ten font, and my stat blocks are more compact that late 3.5/Pathfinder standard. As for the Vampire Skulk Lurks, dear frag, that was a lot of paper...)
I mean, some of us are stupid enough to consider doing things like coverting massive modules to high level (the Epic party? Finished on Dragon Mountain (the AD&D module full of kobolds) punted to 16th to Epic) and I have seriously considered doing a direct sequel to Rise of the Runelords using Return of the Runelords at 18th to Epic... But first I want to do some other stuff I really want to do (Osirion mega-campaign, Iron Gods).
(As you can gather, I am not a fan of a fixed level cap. 3.5 Epic is... Not great in a lot of ways, but some of the core ideas work, like, fixing saves and attack bonuses to a slower progression and a big jump in XP to basically a soft cap where Epic is more or less extra time. Epic spells... Not so much.)
James Jacobs wrote:
Maybe check out Owlcat's version? I had a lot of fun playing that one!
I'm stil playing through it, 315 hours in (making it I think the longest single RPG play through I can log...)
Since I'm DM forever, I also took the opportunity to mod-out the level cap so I can play Epic Pathfinder, which is going to be as close to me playing that as I'm ever going to get, since PF1 has only had those two glorious games...
Bjørn Røyrvik wrote:
Having run a Pf1 group at 20th for several years now, more high level adventures is appealing. I'm fine with making my own stuff or converting and adapting from other editions, but I like to have something to work with as a starting point. I turned my game into Epic 20, i.e. every so often you get a new feat or special ability without increasing things like BAB, HP, CL or saves. This was not strictly speaking necessary for the enjoyment of the game, but it helped mitigate the odd feeling that there was nothing left to learn, especially when the campaign is about specifically about learning new stuff to become more powerful.
Huh. You know, I'd never considered Epic 20... That's not a terrible idea at all. Hrm... I might be more inclined to go Epic 30 myself, BUT that's still an approach I'd not considered, so as/when my group ACTUALLY get to Epic again, that's something to remember...
(First, I need to finish re-writing mythic a bit, to make it fall somewhere beteen tabletop and Owlcat's version, which I like as a little bit more as a side grade....!)
I have started to piece things together in anger, and today I made a proper attempt to site the Desert of Desolation stuff.
This is predicated on the initial assumptions that 1) before Mummy's Mask starts, there will be a Proloogue, in which the PCs travel down to do The Third Riddle (to pay for their tomb-hunting liscene in Wati) and in the process, encounter the Sunken City of Pazar as the first advanture location, to set thing in motion.
This is the oddessey it has taken today, present for an insanity check (since no-one sane would do this.)
Okay, so we know from a few posts ago, the Deserts of Desolation map is insanrly too big.
Link
So it wants to try and be placed conveniantly into the Shifting Sands/Secrets oif the Sphnix portions of the game at least in part.
First then, as TurboCAd won't let me transparent images, I needed to make a quick line scribble of the player handout maps.
The Merchant's Oasis is such an obvious place to combine with the Oasis oif the White Palm that I made it my starting spot and thus scaled from there. After a bit of fiddlin,g I decided to move it. In the original, it's the upper of the two locations wuith a palm tree, but it fitted better with the lower one.
This left the Tomb of Amunre on the left of the map, and Pazar off the map down south where it was going to be near enough to the line of travel for the PCs to run into in on the way to the Third Riddle.
This shows roughtly where the Secrets of the Sphinx map sits into the larger Osirion map, and thus where this fits in.
The upper half of the map was going to prove troublesome, though. Fortuantely, there's a gap in the middle (and the maps line up terribly.
But it was clear from the initial pass that I was going to have a lot of trouble fitting the upper DoD map onto the Parched Dunes map.
But as I wrestled, I spotted the Glzaen Sheets on the main Osirion map. A quick check - area of sandless desert, some of which was glass, fused by some unknoen reason.
Well, if that WASN'T a direct homage to Desrts of Desolation, it was certainly a gift! After all, no need to immediately set the third part of DoD in the Secrets of the Sphinx exploration.
So, stick it THERE. But I was then going to have to do some fiddling - maybe change the direction and size, perhaps not to the same scale as the first map?
22 are sandskiffs, for the PCs tro travel across the Skysea.
23 is just a description
24/25 is the island/city at the centre (the latter being 10 miles across).
26 are the three pillars of Martek to triangulate the tomb itsle f(not on the map).
But on the player map, theres three pillars and a set of four pillars and they don't match the DM map.
One of the three pillars on the player handout doesn't have a location at all (south-east) and The north-west one is just a pillar, not the actual tomb of Martek anyway.
Okay, I could maybe use PaintShopPro 8 to sand out those bits?
Well, I figured, put the numbers on, And for the sake of arguement, to use the DoD location maps right, the 24/25 hex needed to be ten miles, So I scaled. As it happens, if I kept the scribble-map the same scale as the bottom half, it fitted okay, except for that damn river.
Then just a line to add a rough path of the old river bed to link the two.
Link
And I think, ladies and/or/through gentleman, I have something approximating a reasonable set of map locations.
The next job is figuring out how to fit Entombed with the Pharoahs/Pact Stone Pyramid in. But in looking up the Glazen Wastes, I happened on a reference to Tumen, and following that through... Led my to learning about the Cult of the Lost Thereom in the ruins of Tumen.
That is too much of a giveaway not to use. It might also help frame things.
1) Perhaps the raiders in Third Riddle are not Apsis, but each bears the mark of the Pharoah of Numbers (and are in reality, Cultists if the Lost Theroem chasing down a potential (but wrong) hint.
2) [Scholar] could perhaps learn of them during the early Mummy's Mask bits and when they here about the encovering of the Tomb of the Four Pharoahs, ask the PCs to go look for it there. Abnd the oppositon adventuring party could be not Cheliax, but instead cult members. (Or perhaps be inflitrated, even by a cult member who has been replaced by a water clone...) No-one finds the Lost Theroem, but they do see a countdown clock.
3) A bit later, [Scholar] learns of the uncovering of the Pact Stone Pyramid. Here, the Exemplar becomes another cultist, and it is a race to retrive the Lost Theruem again, this time succesfully.
4) Possibly side-quests later to deal with the Cultists in Tumen (whose leader has perhaps been MindQuaked into helping forwar Ramlock's goals).
That's as far as I've gotten. Placing the Aucturn stuff by level will be te next challenge, which I don't have time for today. But I have, at least, started to get a sort of coherent-ish meshing of the plots.
Again, if anyone had any suggestions, please voice them!
Not to be a downer, but BattleTech (i.e. Catalyst Game Labs, which is doing staggeringly well at the moment) and I tentatively think might be a bigger company overall (maybe?) hasn't even really managed that. It's a sore point with EU/RoW customers. Shipping from the US is absolutely insane (especially when shipping TO the US is not as remotely bad). CGL also seems likely to be stuck with FedEx on some sort of contract, because I can't otherwise understand why they have been silent on issues when customers are reporting how much FedEx are extracting the michel. ($120 to ship a less-than-$20 PLASTIC figure[1]. It cost me in the UK only about £20 or so to send a model of what would be about the same weight TO the US. (Notably? About the same as it cost to send to Austraila, LITERALLY the otherside of the world.) And we're talking here "weight of packing exceeds weight of item" levels here.)
It's not a new issue, either, sadly; a few or few back, Paizo had one of their clear-out hardcopy sales, *and even at 50% off* is was cheaper to buy the PDFs than get the books, because the shipping was ridiculous.
(It didn't use to be this bad, I do have some hardcopy stuff, though we're going back maybe ten-fifteen years.)
[1]If I believed what a list of their prices are/were when someone dug it up, they wanted to charge something like $50-70 dollars to send a *letter* to CANADA, which doesn't even have the excuse of even being overseas.
And because 2023 is fighting me every day, the satisfaction and excitement is now tempered by the news that the wargames club venue is really struggling to keep afloat (especially due to power running costs). Which would be something of a disaster, since it is so hard to find venues that aren't stupidly expensive these days. So now we have that hanging over our heads. (And it's not something we can do anything about, since they basically get the bulk of the money from hiring out to events, and stuff keeps getting cancelled.)
I could host the roleplaying group at my house every week, but that means that the table has to be cleared for every Monday, which equates to quite a bit of extra work and load on my part. But, y'know, kind of a complete excrementer for the rest of the wargames club on top.
The characters have remained the same (if two regulated to recurring gues stars). We've lost players (one permenantly) and gained players and we were interrupted for the first time in thirty years fore eighteen months by a global pandemic, but it's done!
Karzoug the Claimer, with a sad inevitability that I could see a mile off ended the same way almost all the boss monsters in the AP ended - the dwarf barbarian's right axe and then the dwarf barbarian's left axe meeting in the middle.
We obviously weren't playing it all that time, but in chunks. In practise, it took us about six months to get through each book. We did that last couple since we re-started since lockdown, so it's taken us a fair bit longer, but high level play in a high power environment (we finished at 18th level) will do that; especially with six PCs and the player shortage we've had where somtimes, we couldn't get enough of us to meet one week in four.
Next week, we start on the second part of Shackled City (with two new players, one of whom came along today and got handed the spare cleric semi-NPC, so what a way to be introduced to the group...!)
So, I have an hour or before the session tonight where I couldn't do anything useful, so I went back and looked at the maps and scales.
1) The Sunkern City of Pazar isn't even IN the deser of desolation. It is mostly a puzzle dungeon with Some Spiders, so there's not reason it couldn't be moved anywhere in Osirion, and put right at the start of the AP (perhaps even on the way to a prelude society module before starting the HaldDead City.
2) I went and compared the map scales of Pharoah and DoD. The difference is staggering. Pharoah's map is 2 miles to a hex, for a start.This places the first point of interest only ten miles from the starting point. DoD has the party travel *90* miles from the starting city to reach the same place (sixty miles before you even get started). At the compliation's estimated travel speeds, following the roads, the PCs are seemingly expected to travel three hexes per day (close enough) and 3 and a bit to 4 hours to cross a hex. At a random encounter rate of 33% every hour (1-2 on D6 - so an expected rate of 8 per day), I worked out the module expects something like 36 encounters before you even get into the desert of desolation. A cursory estimate of fastest critical path, assuming the PCs go exactly in the right order to minimise backtracking, I got to something like 56 day's travel (so over 200 random encounters...?)
Bonkers.
This is completely unnecessary. Random encounters generally add very little to the gameplay. I've become less and less fond of them as the years pass unless there is some careful scripting. Hell, I long ago took to preparing random encounters in advance anyway as far back as AD&D itself) so that they could have some semblence more than "suddenly, monsters appear, fight" like it was Pokémon or something. RNG is not the DM, I am...
What I've found that's worth salvaging so far would be better run a scriped encounter anyway.
So what the DoD maps have is a lot of wasted space that does nothing. It's needless large. I am much more inclined to put the spacing of stuff back to much closer to Pharoah was, which means I could much more easily fit into the relevant section of the Mummy's Mask map-crawl, I suspect. Hang the actual handout maps, tain't worth it. I'll just do it by description if necessary, it's not worth preserving for that amount of extra headache.
I still need to read on, but I think I'm fairly convinced at this point I will be far better putting stuff where I darn like and maybe trimming out a lot of the less than great parts and just pasting some pieces into other module's bits - maybe not even in the same order. (There's no seemingly good reason why the Oasis of the White Palm sections, if kept, couldn't be placed in a different earlier even before the Pharoah stuff, and good reason to not plonk a habitation in the middle of a more trackless desert... Looking at MM map, that could neatly be rolled into the existant Merchant's Oasis, even.)
I read to up Oasis of the White Palm and the temple of Set last night.
Again, the quality control on the module is shocking - the maps were not fixed. The map of the Oasis of the White Palrm is labelled with letters - the text with numbers and they don't *even* seem to match terribly well.
It's not even especially clear how easily the PCs get embroiled in the intregue, either. There are some vague "ifs"- and some of those seemed to rely on having come acroos random encounters - but it seemed to me that a party could accidently totally miss half of it or just blunder into something by walking into the wrong building...
The temple within the compound was also not terribly interesting, and since it basically only contributes to the main plot by having one of Plot Items just lying around on the side, one feels that might be able to be cut entirely. I might re-write some of this much more heavily than I intended, because wow, it's so badly out together. It feels like it lacks a lot of connective tissue, which is really the One Job it had, threading the three seperae moduless together.
(It seems more disjointed in some ways than Shackled City and I've had to do some mederate re-writing and expansion to that!)
I read up to the end of the Pharoah portion of DoD.
I am definitely suspecting the modules itself was written in the late TSR period, because there is a shocking lack of quality control. In fact, between this and the lack of fracks given in the conversion to PDF this may actually be one of the worst-presented D&D modules I've ever come across, which is very disappointing.
I found on very obvious and repeated typo (in text added from the original module), clearly copy-pasted.
For no apparent reason, the map numbering system had been changed. Instead of being prefixzed with a letter and the whole pyramid of Amun-Re beign in one continuous scheme, the new author decided to break each level into its own number scheme (with no letters, which meant they had to specific "[section of tomb], number" instead of just "number".). But they actually failed to replace several of the labelling on the map, delting the onl ones but not adding the new ones. So I had to get out a pen, and my old hard-copy of Pharoah, and puzzle out where the numbers were missing from. On top of that, there is a vertical diagram of one of the rooms, which is still labelled with the old Pharoah numbering, which bears no relation to the new one. Pen again. Shocking lack of basic checking.
While some stuff has been added, other stuff was apparently just omitted for no reason. The spellcaster boss of the tomb's entire spell list was just... [i]missing/i] in the updated version.
Also missing the the option ending fluu text; but that was something that actually added some flavour text for breaking the curse and making the exercise meaningful. Here, it's just "bottom of the page, finishing describing the tomb, next page, start on next section."
(Given that, as this indicates there is no real conncective tissue between these various sections other than "traipse through desert," so maybe I CAN just add the locations to the Mummy's Mask map and have done with it...)
One other facet, more of the era than of the production values, since it was something in the original module as well. For a hiterto unlootedable tomb, there sure are a lot of random people in it. Three random NPCs - not even apparebntly from the same advanturing party (names, module? No? Are these just supposed to be replacement PCs or what?) A group of lost bandits. A group of lost dervishes. Some dopplegangers. Some minotaurs. A random gnome )who has, from implication, spend years mining the tomb with a spoon but managing to not disturb the clay golem in the same area...?)
The previous section did not particularly have the denizens of th temple through which access is granted concerned that they'd recently had loads of people filing into the tomb - you'd have though that would have made more note than "some of their dudes went inside and haven't come out."
So I may need to fill this out a bit and make some attempt at explaination, because there are fairly glaring logical inconsistencies nowadays. Maybe the dervishes in the temple arrived only lately, perhaps persuing the bandits. As for maybe three sets of advanturers, I dunno.
One tempting thing, though, is to perhaps have some sort of rarely triggered temporal effect around the tomb - because just maybe, I can tie this back to the coutndown clock. Maybe anyone unfortnate enough to be in the mists of the maze in tomb at the point the pendulum swings (every 56 years) doesn't come out until the next one. It would add a bit more foreshadoing, at any rate.
(I mean, ypou could go with something more frequent and sublt, like on every 56th day it happens, or every day sepnt inside the temple 56 days pass outside, but I think the trouble with that is it might TOO subtle.)
Off the top of my head that seems like the best solution. I'm not too familiar with DoD and I'm AFB, but is there any reason you can't just drop the original map and place the important bits where you will in Osirion?
That's a bit of a potentially messy issue.
One of the problems that's just occuring to me (having read the link above) is that there are player map handouts which fit to the map as given. Now, I can certainly chop bits off of it; the entire prelude to the bit that basically starts Pharoach could be safely dropped, for one.
After I made the OP, I spent a while painstakingly mapping out where all the modules and adventure locations take place - and the spot I was looking at is EXACTLY where the similar (and of course no doubt inspired) hex-crawling portion of Mummy's Mask is located.
So there is something to be said for adding at least some of Deserts of Desolation right into that portion of Mummy's Mask when the PCs are already doing a hex-crawl exploration - it's pretty much too much of a gift NOT to ignore.
The problem is, of course, still space. I made a thread on the PF reddit, and some of the suggestions there included making it a demi-plane - which has the potential to be tied into Ramlock's Hallow and the Aucturn Engima plot or a TARDIS area (magcially bigger on the inside - maybe worn through to the First World a bit). I have even this mronign being considering the Darklands, maybe all the way down to a hiterto unknown Orvian Vault.
The slight problem with some of that is that is makes it a little bit too self-contained. But I might have to roll with that to some extent, we'll see, but I'd prefer to interlace the three plots a bit more if I can.
To Figure out exactly what I need and what can be cut, I need to completely reading DoD entirely and see what I can actually get away with, but I suspect the problem might be the maps the PCs are supposed to find to lead to the final locations etc.
(I can scale images in my CADs package, but not superimpose them or cut them up, which would make making an accurate change to the handouts themselves considerably more difficult (trial-and-error through two packages), or me trying and failing to make a map handout entirely myself.)
The next job was to laboriously copy/paste the timeline from Osirion: Land of Pharoahs into my word document, so I could add and amend the timelines.
Deserts of Desolation is set 1000 years ago. So, if we take that as read, it'll be around 3714, in the middle of the Keleshite Interregnum.
Okay. Martek, the guy whom Deserts of Desolation surrounds on, was the Grand Vizier of Raurin (which is a desert region in the realms, apparently), so easy enough to make one of the Sultan's people.
Actually, there is a cultural division between the Raurindi and Dupari peoples, with the former being natives and the later being trader-types who came later. That would map reasonably well to the native Osirioni and the Kelshites, wouldn't it? Close enough anyway. DoD's dervishes are just a sect of the Osirioni who particularly worship the old gods... Neat.
However, next is the big problem... Osirion isn't big enough!
When trying to work out where to place things, I have been immediately styimied.
Obviously, I want to try and avoid actually having to draw a completely new map is I can.
One obvious idea would be to drastically shrink the size of the DoD map (so some extent, it's fine, if I'm doing this, there's going to be SO MUCH dungeon crawling I want to largely eliminate random encounters (which I increasingly find not useful anyway).
At half size, you could just about squeeze it into the gap between the Scarab river and the Pillars of the Sun (just dodging Lamashtu's Flower and the Crook north and south) and fitting in the Parched Lands (sort of appropriate?) (Red rectangle) But there is the slight issue there doesn't appear to be any mountains or hills north of the Crook.
One solution might be to angle the region 30º, putting the bottom of the DoD map on the hills, which does dodge most of the other features... It's not ideal, but it's at least still slightly more north than north-east...
However, if anyone can offer any better solutions...
Sort of? It's not, like up on a website or anything, but it would be emailable (though a check and quick run up suggests a zip file is about 16.5 meg with the word files. A mate converts it to PDF and kindle (I mean, I could do the former if I could be arsed), but that's not quite up to date (as there have been a few more little passes as I've been finalising the next pass for the next campaign starting next week.) Drive link might be better than email direct (though I think under the circumstances you'll forgive me if I don't do a completely open one, so PM or email... (as much as anything I try and keep my Drive clear for work stuff!)
Should be noted that it still relies on having some 3.5 books (notably PHB, DMG, PHBII, SpC, ToB, XPH, CompPsi) as I haven't like, re-written/copied up the *entire* of 3.5 et al, just very large chunks.
There are also still some low-impact areas not done exhaustively, that I tackle on a case-by-case basis as need arises. Only a few races, still some domains to be updated (in the final tab of the SpellCrossReferencePrime spreadsheet), only a handful of PrCs, stuff like that. There is a generic bestiary, but that's bascally just a compilation of statblocks that gets updated as I find a monster I haven't used yet. (The Summon Bestiary, on the other hand, has a complete list of everything that is summonable by spell or power in 3.A.) I also need to do a proper index of the witch patrons (I just couldn't be arsed at the time) and we haven't had anyone play one yet, so that's not been a big priority.
(I may eventually add Path of War stuff too, but that would require a complete overhaul of the Tome of Battle disciplines AND, more pertiently, doing loads of new cards and re-printing the old ones and so it'd be a big effort I haven't felt the need to undertake yet.)
But all the classes, feats, spells, powers, equipment and combat stuff is all "done", short of further expansion and errata and such.
My solution was to steadily re-write large chunks of PF1/3.5, deal with the niche cases and generally attempt to do to PF1 what PF1 did to 3.5. Or (like with the grappling rules) decide that neither sysrtem got it very right re-write entirely. (Closer to 3.5 than PF1, but also akign sure ALL the relevant universal monster abilities were explictly IN that sectiob as well.)
PF1 still had the problems that the rules were not all in one place for some things - often legacy bits from 3.5, so I did a lot of compiling.
Mind you, what I run is very emphatically NOT a rules-lite, freeform sort fo game. Though at this point, it's bloody well cross-checked and thorough, and well indexed (in terms of spells, feats etc), at least.
But I suspect most people have a panic attack when I say "at last count, 1600 pages" and that was before the v2.1 revisions...! (In fairness, that's because I went through VERY throughly and there is increasingly little left in the core rule books - and only a few of the 3.5 splats - that's not been copied up. But I was rigorous when I did t; anything that was even a minor change, copied into the new set. In particular, any spell that was "as this spell but" had the copied spell moved as well, so that spell chain is all in once place. Net result, the spells document runs to 300 pages, but there is only CR1, Spell Compendium and (3.5) PHBII aside from it to look spells up in. That was where is starte way back, though - to pare down 3.5's burgeoning splatbooks into the bits we'd actually use, and leave the chaff we didn't behind so I'd have less material to take down the club.
That I have a very full 90 litre backpack still might argue on one hand, I didn't succes terribly well - but on the other, two foot of hardbacked 3.5 splats sitting on my shelves says that, yeah, I kinda did on the other.
As nobody else has posted it yet, allow me: D&D Short's video on what he has been told by the WotC staff he was in contact with.
Of particular note is this (corroborated) statement (time linked) about the head of D&D's digital stuff, Chris Cao: "he doesn't play D&D, because according to him, he doesn't need to play it to understand what the community wants - he believe his experiences in MMO video games and mobile games is enough and it's all the same anyway."
There we have it, ladies and/or/through gentleman. The TSR-level of contempt for the customer.
Pretty much exactly what I expected (and said as much). Assumption of all markets as the same and therefore what works at one place works identically in the other and thus he can force the market to be what he thinks it should be.
I am not remotely surprised, since this whole thing smacked exactly of that kind of management, sorry, MIS management.
If Hasbro is really expecting to increase D&D's revenue six-fold in the next four years, I can only foresee D&D being sold off when it inevitably fails to reach that mark, EVEN if this debarcle doesn't sink it faster.
(Here's a charming little thought to imagine for a moment of levity in this insantiy - imagine what would happen if it came to that and Paizo (et al) were to sidle up and say "well, tell yer what, we'll that that off yer hands on the cheap, mate...!")
I am not, unfortunately, surprised at all that the news that WotC has been giving everyone placebo surveys and intends to continue to do so. The computer games industry has seemed to rely on people venting angrily on steam forums or social media or something and then still buying the next release; this is just a more advanced form of that, focussing it to somewhere out of sight where it can be deleted quietly.
WotC really don't understand what roleplay is, do they?
They really ARE trying to make a computer game without making a computer game.
And it's clear they don't EVEN understand computer games, because making AI that is any good is EXTREMELY difficult and expensive (as anyone who has looked at basically any game of any complexity will find, there are always compalints of "AI is dumb."
They really cracked the code here, so to speak.
Except they also forgot the part where most recent CRPGs live and die based on whether they have a dedicated mod community to keep them going...
AND THEY WANT TO CHARGE FOR MODS.
Which is, ultimately, what homebrew is, is it not? At the end of the day, what is my 3.Aotrs but, functionally, a total conversion mod for 3.5/PF1? Same thing, different label.
And the computer games industry couldn't get THAT to fly. It blew up in their faces sommat rotten.
This AI DMs again, likewise shows a complete misunderstanding.
According to Discourse Miniatures, who apparently has seen one in action these chatbots are functional enough when in a narrowly definied area. I mean, that's not a massive stretch, after all, CRPGs exist and work under the same criterion.
Except that to create those narrowly-defined dungeon crawls... You're going to need to make them. Which is a lot of effort. I mean, you ARE making what is basically a computer game at the end of the day at that point.
Even if WotC is assuming it can steal homebrew modules (which people are potentially paying to put on) to run an AI with, I don't imagine that a module made by Fred Bloggs to run with hs mates once is going to be exhaustively enough prepared or coded etc for an A DM to be able to do that with[1].
Leaving aside that RPGs =/= computer games in the first place and don't serve the same intentions.
What WotC are doing is metaphorically equivalent not to just doing an EA creating the FIFA games (the repetative, grindy microtransaction filled manipulative lootbox hell) but taking over actual FIFA and trying to replace actually going down to the stadium to watch football with playing the games.
(Okay, from my understanding actually going to watch football in the flesh is apparently extremely expensive already - I wouldn't know - but I think my point stands.)
[1]I mean, you might be able to do it with my homebrew quests, since I have always tended to write them as if someone else would play them, but I am rather... Unusually preparation heavy. On the flip side, I ain't never going to be putting it into a format that's not a word document and maybe some CAD maps.
WotC really don't understand what roleplay is, do they?
They really ARE trying to make a computer game without making a computer game.
And it's clear they don't EVEN understand computer games, because making AI that is any good is EXTREMELY difficult and expensive (as anyone who has looked at basically any game of any complexity will find, there are always compalints of "AI is dumb."
Anyone belive WotC are going to spend that kind of money and time, and not slap together something in a half-hearted attempt?
After all, why should they bother to make any kind of effort, since they will be charging through the nose for anyone to do anything other than play in the walled garden. (And this is just what they seem to think they can get away with TO START WITH).
Well, the first phase proved more difficult than I thought; I started printed out Deserts of Desolation.
(I had to pause printing anything else out of length, because the downstairs printer died...)
Starting to read through module, I realised, I really did need the colour maps (which I hadn't printed), so I went back to the PDF and printed the colour land maps. (We have had to move the upstairs printer downstairs...)
And, apparently as with Night Below, when WotC made the PDFs of old modules, they did an APPALLING job with scanning the maps; absolutely RISIBLE. Missing chunks, repeated sections, generally completely usable. They literally don't match up from one sheet to the next. Whoever did the job on those modules CLEARLY made no effort to even remotely check. Shocking. (I bloody hope it was revised since and the copy now for $10 on DrivethruRPG isn't the same as I paid £2.50 for all those years ago..)
For Night Below, I had to rely on the kindess of a gentleman who owned the physical module scanning the maps in for me. (I at one point returned the favour in kind by scanning in some maps of Dragon Mountain, whose physical module I inherted from the Wargames Club.)
I was afraid I would have to do the same here, but I did find one image of the poster maps sheet as a good quality image. With a bit of magic in Paint and some copy/pasting, I managed to get it printed out. Extra points to the lady and/or/through gentleman wot scanned that image, because on my initial print of the hex map (I hadn't bothered scaling the three PCs maps), though I suppose I probably should...) came out at 4 hex to an inch bang on; at 200% scale, it is perfectly scaled for the intended 1" to 2 hexes (a hex being 5 miles). (I'd be less bothered about the precision, but the actual maps don't have a scale ON them other than '1" to a 10 miles'...)
New printer is ordered now, so when that comes, I can carry on...
(Delay because trying to find a printer was a nightmare. I asked for recommendations in a couple of places: everyone said "buy a laser printer" despite me saying "that's too expensive for Dad's budget." "Buy a laser printer." "But. That's Too Expensive." "Buy a laser printer, it's cheaper in the long run." "BUT. IT. IS. TOO. EXPENSIVE." *sigh*
The only thing those asks achieved was (along with my own several hours of research) was to make us drop the idea of an ink tank printer as too much of an unknown risk - especially the Epson one we'd initially loked at. As research revealed that Epson and WotC are really of the same stripe; with Epson making a concerted effort to not let people use OEM cartridges (and building in obsolescence), the former to the point they've had a class-action lawsuit filed against them...)
Tangenital Response to Tangential Rant: I mean, me, I looked at 3.5, I looked at Pathfinder 1 (with Rolemaster leaning over from the one-in-forp'nnies) and said "that's not complicated enough! I'mma make my own edition, with Brimoraks and Hook Horrors! Let's add it all together and steal some bits from 4E and 5E (since I saw the latter on Unexpectables!) Huzzah!"
...
I do not think I am anyone's target market anymore.
I am just concluding the last couple of combats for Rise of the Runelords (the first AP we've run) before going to the second portion of Shackled City. We use a 3.5/PF1 hybrid extensively compiled by me, in large part thanks to the Archives of Nethys. (It's pretty wild at 18th level with six mid-high optimised PCs, to say the least...!)
(Also playing through Wrath of the Righetous on PC.)
But, though PF2 isn't really something I'm too bothered about, for NO APPARENT REASON, today I felt like I needed to COMPLETELY INEXPLICABLY give Paizo some money, so I bought the Impossible Lands to read.
(As I have already bought like every campaign settings country/location source book for 1E, also being the only game world I've bought stuff just to read for fun.
I also GENUINELY have more APs stored away than I think my group will use (at a rate of one AP book/six months) if I ran continuously, since I reckon in another 30 years (which is, like, 10 AP, tops), I think we'll all rather be past it because the group will be in their 70/80s... And we lost another player ovelock down already and he was obly 36...)
(We'd have played more Starfinder (a little disappointed in wasn't 1E In Space, but I wasn't running it; but lockdown meant the DM moved away, so I'm back to being DM Forever.)
So, Person Who Plays 3.5/PF1 hybrid here. I, *for completely inexplicable reasons* feel something like getting product from Paizo today.
I am going to be looking mostly from a fluff perspective (since I don't 2E), so a question about whether much will ne nonuseful to me. (Not a lot, I suspect, if 2E's sourcebooks are like 1Es... Which I bought pretty much all of, just to read for fun in the first place.)
I gather this is, Geb/Nex/Mana Wastes/Jalmeray (it's not terribly clear from the description)?
Side question, since shipping and storage alone wiuld make it impractical, but why is the hardcopy three times the page count of the PDF?
Orcs are not copyrightable by Wizards of the Coast. Never have been. Never will be. The word "Orc" is so heavily rooted in feudal English that you might as well say you can copyright fae, troll, or werewolf.
Reputedly, that didn't stop GW trying to do it to "goblin" in the UK, and they verifibaly did try it with "Space Marines" (and lost the case).
Never under-estimate what the people only out to Make All Of the Money will try, especially since with the alarming increase in corporate conglomeration putting more and more stuff under the purview of fewer individuals.
(One only has to look at the visible exmaple of the computer games industry (which saw this sort of thing happen) wherein companies repeatedly monetise and hike prices, while none of the money goes to the actual staff, but to the (big) shareholders and CEOs/board. And that's the business we can most readily SEE, because it's a relatively new market and on whose nature means the consumer base is almost by necessity online; what the long-established business do and get away with won't be any different, we just won't see it as readily.)
So, they can't, but some idiot business-business-person could very well TRY.
Well, off to a good start - printed out Deserts of Desolation, went to start printing the copy of my master rules for the next ongoing campaign starting in a couple of combat's time[1] and then it appears my freaking printer has just died...
[1]Tonight, Khalib of Rise of the Runelords (16 Wiz) managed an impressive feat of being a combat ended in less than half a round, with no PC buffs. Even with five times his intended maximum hit points (house-rules...) he got off one Sudden Maximised, Sudden Empowered Delayed Blast Fireball, failed a Fort save against somethign that did 200-odd damage and the the dwarf barbarian shock trooper splortched him Now, this is not unexpected, but that he didn't even mane to get halfway into round one was something of an achivement...
(Karzoug('s image) also failed to roll even average damage with a Disintegrate on a failed Fort save, too...)
Summary: I am brainstorming ideas in piecing together an Osirion mega-campaign from AD&D and PF1 modules and APs; particularly in melding plots and lcoations (rather than levels/mechanics).
Longer explanation:
When I was ten, and first starting out with roleplaying (gravitating from HeroQuest to Rolemaster - AD&D was a distant forth), my Dad borrowed a load of modules from somebody at work, so that I could read through them to see what pre-written adventures were like. I read them in the absense of any mechanical knowledge, of course. Whoever that generous soul was, among the contributions was the module I3 Pharoah.
That module has stuck with me ever since. (To the point I even at great expense bought a hard-copy one day.) I have always thus wanted to run and "egyptian" campaign ever since that day.
Lockdown costs us two of my weekly groups' players; one forced to move away, the other died. One more is intending to mvoe away at some point. My group has been struggling to get enough players weeks to week; but when we cap off Rise of the Runelords in three combat's time, we will have one, if not two new people joining us, so I can look beyond the next portion of Shackled City (which is ready to go) and what we do after. It's all brought it home to me that those campaigns I've always intended to do (the "egyptian" one and the Completely Aliehn World)... I really ought to do now or never. After all, at out approximation of 6 months per AP book, I reckon at best we're only got maybe ten adventures paths left in us before everyone is too old (and assuming I do continue to be DM Forever as it seems likely to be).
So, fresh yeat, and on my carefully prepared task list is, finally, to start looking at doing my Osirion Mega-Campaign. I have at LEAST an esitimated year once we get through the next four chapters of the Shackled Citty adventure path, so this is a mid-long term project... But it is time I finally STARTED.
So.
Looking at the dates, twenty years ago this year, I bought a quartet of AD&D PDFs, which have been rigourously stored ever since. Chief among them was Deserts of Desolation, the combined form of Pharoah and it's sequels.
The one time shipping was favourable to me, I was able to buy hard copies of Entombed with the Pharoahs and Pact Stone Pyramid. I snapped up Mummy's Mask as soon as it came out. And at odd intervals, through purchase (and being given a boat load of PDFs by a mate of one of the players), I have a load of Society modules set in Osirion. I have (with some effort) also got Doomsday Dawn.
I intended the core of the campaign to be Mummy's Mask, as that will be the most coherent part. But I intend to add at least Deserts of Desolation and Pact Stone Pyramid and Entombed with the Pharoahs in and weave in basically three plots, the latter two of which will start to come in later.
One, the plot of Mummy's Mask (whoich I have, admittedly, not reads in its entirity, though I did read the first couple of books a while ago.) As this starts at 1st level, it's a logical starting point.
Two, the Deserts of Desolation plot, in which an ancient prophecy is enacted (by the hapless PCs) to defeat a powerful efreet. This is graded at 5th level, but in any case whill require complte stat conversion.
Three, the seemingly random appearances of the Countdown Clock, leading finally, to, as the capstone, the end of Doomsday Dawn. The two primary modules here are in the 6-8 and 8-10 range respectively, so they can potentially go in there.
I would like to try and squeeze in as many bits of the others as I reasonable can.
This is going to be essentially an editionless thread, since I will be using my own 3.5/PF1 houserules, and with the combination of paths, on top of everything else AND the More Than Four Characters party size, a boat-load of stat conversion work will be required anyway. (I have a hsitory of previously converted AD&D to 3.5 campaigns already: Night Below and Homebrew=? Vecna Lives!/Vecna Reborn/Die Vecna Die! => Dragon Mountain as 16-Epic) So I am well aware of the monumetal stupidity of this task. (Hell, I am still half-threatening to rune Return of the Runelords as a direct sequel to Rise of the Runelords, meaning upgrading it to an 18-Epic AP - culimating in, of course, an ad-hoc fight against all seven Runelords...!)
The first job will be for me to print and read through at least Deserts of Desolation and Mummy's Mask.
As bits of Doomsday Dawn are set outside Osirion, I plan to either omit them altother, or instead seed the Plot Devices into the other parts of the campaign, and hopefully find a way to tie-in other two plots into the biggy.
My full current list of potential inclusions (as currently in my Campaign Ideas document, wherein I catalogue all my adventures, run and unrun) is thus. This is in very approximate order of level (or at least starting level), with the various modules of Mummy's Mask and later Deserts of Desolation seeded between them.
List of Acquired Modules
Destiny of the Sands: A Bitter Bargain (1st-2nd, 4th-5th, PF, Golarion) (Osirion) (PF Soc)
Destiny of the Sands: Race to Seeker’s Folly (1st-2nd, 4th-5th, PF, Golarion) (Osirion) (PF Soc)
Destiny of the Sands: Sanctum of the Sages (3rd-4th , 6th-7th, PF, Golarion) (Osirion) (PF Soc)
(Given levels, possibility I might consider this as prequel to Mummy's Mask, but I will have to read them first.)
Mummy’s Mask (1st-15th?, PF, Golarion) (Osirion)
Risen from the Sands (3rd, PF, Golarion) (Osirion)
Test of Tar Kuata (3-4th, 6-7th, PF, Golarion) (Osirion) (PF Soc)
Third Riddle (1st-2nd, 3rd-5th, PF, Golarion) (Osirion) (PF Soc)
The Rebel’s Ransom (5th-6th, 8th-9th, Golarion) (Osirion) (PF Soc)
Desert of Desolation (5th-7th, AD&D) (Osirion ?)
The Trouble with Secrets (5-6th, 8-9th, 3.5, Golarion) (Osirion) (PF Soc)
Entombed with the Phaorahs (6th-8th, 3.5, Golarion) (Osirion)
Beacon Below (7-8th, 10-11th, PF, Golarion) (Osirion) (PF Soc)
Drow of the Darklands Pyramid (7-8th, 10-11th, PF, Golarion) (Osirion) (PF Soc)
Pact Stone Pyramid (8th-10th, 3.5, Golarion) (Osirion)
Wrath of the Accursed (7th-8th, 10-11th, Golarion) (Osirion) (PF Soc)
Doomday Dawn (?? PF2)
One major pertinent point of consideration is where to locate Deserts of Desolation in Osirion approximately.
If anyone can offer any suggestions or other useful advice on any of the modules (from AD&D onwards) or story ideas, please do. (Or just to sit gobsmacked at my sheer insanity, whichever).
(I may crosspost this to giant in the Playground as well at some point, but I figured here was as likely as anywhere to have folk who have actully played the relevant modules.)
I'm aware that this is very high-concept and pending me doing a lot of reading over the next few months, but I wanted to at least make a start, because then the job is begun. (I've started printing Deserts already.) If nothing else, reading through all this will take over from re-reading all my hard-copy Paizo modules (and the entire AD&D encyclopedia magicka) in my bedroom at supper-time.
I am currently playthrough through Owlcat's Wrath of the Righteous, and while I have traditionaly preferred Epic to Mythic, actually using it is bringing me back to the idea that 3.Aotrs said when difference between 3.5 and PF1 were "why not both?" So potentially on a mechanical level, I might consider doing a mythic "sidegrade" along with the rest. I do fully expect this to end in Epic, though, but it'll be a hell of a ride. More expecially because THIS will be th party in which I will be only letting the players pick classes that we haven't really used before, and not from The Usual Suspects. (So, no clerics, wizards, paladins, rogues, rangers, archivists, druids, fighters, warblades, crusaders, swordsages, bards - I've got 50 base classes plus archtypes, time to use them!)
I am finally getting to work on the preparation for our second part of Shackled City (chapters 5 to about 8 I something).
I have just gotten to the second part of the Test of the Smoking Eye; i.e., the Pcs have to follow the path of the lantern of Guidence. It is an 80-mile journey, (so that would be about 4-5 day's typical travel), but the lantern-holding PC has to move at least 15 per round or they get teleported back.
How the *heck* are they supposed to do that?
Occipitus does not have any effect, as far as I can see, on nutritional or sleeping requirements.
The implication is they can't stop to rest (or go to the loo or eat etc) and there are several encounters.
Is the intention to make the PC have to Forced March?
They aren't going to have mounts, since they got to the plain via an NPC using Plane Shift, and even with the assumed default 6 PCs the adventure path was written for, bringing mounts with them is a LOT of extra scrolls (since y'know, you can't get horses to hold hands...)
Assuming a party speed of 20' round (dwarves and people in heavy armour); 16 miles/ day - eight hours - which is 2/ hour. So that's a 40-hour march. Given the DC per hour after 8 hours goes up by +2, so after about ten hours of forced marching (so 18/40 hours), the PCs are onto DC 30 Fort save, so the lower Fort characters are pretty much on nat 20 success. Which means they are going to be taking 22D6 nonlethal damage. Another five hours after that, at DC 40, and that's going to be pretty much true of any character at this level. The final hour's Fort save is DC 74 (!)
30' speed is little better, since that's 27 hours (and for most parties is going to require Splitting The Party), (19 hour's forced march).
It's unreasonable to be able to assume there will be sufficient spellcasting capability to be able to mitigate this.
Teleportation is not possible because of the nature of the test. You can't stop to replenish any spells.
E.g. Longstrider, which at 9-10th level - IF you have enough druids and rangers to cast it on everyone, including Kaurophon - isn't going to last long enough to do much.
Overland Flight might JUST be possible (if they are 10th level, not 9, it would last just long enough to get the wizard - on his own) with only two checks. IF you have a wizard and IF they happen to have learned that particular spell.
It's been an 18-month gap over lock-down when I'd didn't play, so maybe I'm missing something; but this part seems very poorly though out, like the wrote the 80 miles and then forgot about the logistics.
If you're in it for the setting lore, I would recommend checking out Lost Omens: Legends. It is primarily a character book, but when many of those characters are heads of state or have the power to move literal mountains, there tends to be a lot of intersection there.
Thanks, but that's the sort of thing I'm least interested in of all, both from a standard of setting reading entertainment or even from a gameplay perspective, I'm afraid. It's just not something that grabs or inspires my interest - unlike, say, an entire source-book dedicated to pick-any-one of the other planets in the system or the previously unlooked at continents would.
Okay, next stupid question, then - where are they in the store? Wait, no, found 'em under settings, just non-obvious because they're not in "campaign settings" where I'd have expected (mayeb put 'em in a Lost Omens folder of something, folks...?)
Right, I see, I probably did spot the others, then, but they weren't like, geographical region/nation ones, so I'm not quite as bothered about 'em, which is probably why I didn't look very hard.
Another one who is interested in the lore, but not the 2E mechanics.
(I mean, after about nine months of SOLID work (like, I was doing 30-40 hours per week on it 6/7 days after my actual work ended), I was JUST finishing the closing stages of writing approximately half of PF1 into approximately 75% of 3.5 and creating my own functional "full-conversion mod"/homebrew edition of 1000+ pages, right before lockdown hit and completely obliterated any chance of me doing any roleplaying for the foreseeable future - for the first time in THIRTY YEARS (and crippling my wargaming, which is even worse, since CAD modelling for that is my actual day job) and NO, I'M CLEARLY NOT ANGRY ABOUT THAT AT ALL!!!)
Ahem.
But anyway, as I have only been paying, like, half attention - is this the first lore expansion product since the end of PF1, or just the first one I actually made my Perception check on? I got, like, all of the Campaign setting books over time (and honest-to-goodness Golarion is the first campaign world EVER that I bought the books explictly to read for fun (and the fact I ended up running APs there was sort of just a nice bonus) and I've been wondering when we'd get another load.
This sounds very promising, given the size.
What sort of proportion of fluff to mechanics are we likely to be expecting? The same sort of mix as the campaign settings books were previously, something like the Inner Sea World Guide (which was mostly fluff) or with a higher proportion of crunch?
Worth noting that stuff like spell and spell-like abilities were under Special Attacks in 3.5, and the special abilities line is copy-pasted from there. As skeletons and zombies are mindless, I think the RAI at least is that they should not (they also had Cha 1 in 3.5, and only upgraded to 10 because PF had tied Undead hp to D8+Cha instead of straight D12.
Noably, 3.5's skeleton stats included a young adult Red Dragon, which had no SLAs.
I think the intention is that they do not; I don't believe that the lack of explict statement with regard to animated undead and SLAs was a deliberate change of philosphy by Paizo (nor a power-up), just an omission and a classic case of "implied but not stated," inherent in the change to how abilities were classified (i.e spells and SLAs no longer listed on the SA line in stat blocks.)
What happens is you cast Soulseeker and target a creature that is Undead (or you know is Undead, for example, an Undead BBEG)?
The spell says it fails if the target soul (unambiguously identified) is alive or soul-destroyed creatures and the rest of the text seems to assume it's a petitioner.
Would it, then, given the strict wording (as Undead creatures haven't had judegment yet, yes?) locate said Undead creature on whatever plane it was approximately or would it simple fail as if it was a living creature?
(This is a theorhetical question I'm not actually planning to use it on a BBEG myself; I'm considering adding this to my house-rule approved list and therefore want to understand exactly how it works, and if necessary annotate it.)
There was in the RotRL player's guide, mentioned in a sidebar along with Boggard, Shoanti, Thassilonian and Varisian.
To quote:
RotRL Player's Guide wrote:
Chelaxian: Only the wealthy of Korvosa and travelers from the far south speak the national tongue of Cheliax. Humans of Chelish descent gain this tongue as a bonus language.
Clearly it didn't make it into 1E (maybe not even past this one point), but I'm half-curious as to how far it got.
(Also, I am far too good at pre-empting myself. Turns out I actually HAD made/gotten a list of Golarion languages (though I can do some updating now!) and had just forgotten. Chelaxian wasn#t there, either, bu I probably just missed it then!)
I was today looking at compiling a list for my players of languages that are available. As I looked through a couple of sites to do so, I was struck by one particlar absense:
Chelaxian.
Which, according to the Rise of the Runelords player's guide (which my party of said groip used when they generated their characters) was a language.
Apparently, later sources don't have it as one.
So my question is thus two-fold:
1) Does anyone know why Chelaxian got obviated
and b) what ought to I have my PCs replace that language with, since it seems unlike that it will ever come up?
(Asking here since this is more of an edition-agnostic lore question than a mechanical one.)
