Anoron's page

Sorry for being a necromancer here.

I once wondered what to charge per day for these Teams as well. It has been a long time, but I looked at the Hirelings in the Core Rulebook and compared how much they cost per day to the rules for making profits in the Ultimate Campaign.

The best way to decide how much these Teams cost per day is to look at their bonus they provide to a business. So, for example, you just want to have a team of guards watch your home. In the Team entry for Guards they provide a +2 bonus normally. So using the profits mechanic 2/10=.2. As a group those guards cost 2 silver a day. (Example in the book says 47 / 10 = 4.7 gold, so I'll assume .2 means 2 silver as well). This cost assumes you're contracting them, meaning stable pay. Normally included is a place to sleep and get food, that you provide.
That doesn't seem like much in terms if players that roll in piles of gold, but when you consider a time setting earning 1.2 gold a month (individually) is amazing to a common person. Just look at what it costs to rent a room at an Inn or buy a meal in the Core Book if you want to compare.

The way I figure it is the guys you can hire in the Core Rulebook are more expensive to purchase per/day is because they're already contracted, and you're going to their guild/business to hire them as temp labor in an unfamiliar town. (Who the hell are you?!)

That campaign may have ended already, or you worked out your own system. Maybe this will halp someone else someday.

Well, Lamontius, the problem started up when four of five players rerolled, I understood for the new girl, but they chose to be the treasure hunters, and chose to go into this ruined and devastated land. They were elated to go into this broken area of the world to treasure hunt, and intentionally forced me to make the game a treasure hunter game. They ran into some of the ghosts, haunts, and know there are areas where old temples were to explore and loot. When they found out they'd have to work to get the treasure, they abandoned it, ran from it, like the did all the other plot hooks, and story lines that would lead them to more treasure.

At this time, their idea of treasure hunting is, they go to take a dump in the woods, and I'm supposed to roll treasure to see what they expelled from their bowls. No fights, no trouble, no events, just plot an area of land, and roll loot for them. That is literally what a sit down talk has given me.

The vein on the side of my head is throbbing. If they wanted this kind of game, they should pick up a 4th edition DnD book, and open to the page of "solo adventure" and play by themselves.

Underlining several problems, as in the ones I mentioned above, was just part of my problem. There were a lot of other problems that just got to me, and I've decided not to mention every bit of it. My fiance still has her character from the start of the game, and all the rewards have fallen into her lap, but it will never be the kingmaker game, so I've made her a noble, and kept it at that.

All in all, a lot has gone on, and I rolled with the metaphysical slap to the face when they abandoned the first ark of story. Now, as I play the scenarios of what a lot of you are saying for me to do to keep this game running, I fear for the worst, even if they are GOOD ideas for the game, and to give it flavor, but I have that horrible feeling that if they ever get one upped in anything, my troublesome players are going to go right into "DM vs Player" mode. I would love to do a one up, but I don't even think I could do an anti-party group with these guys without them feeling like I'm plotting against them, as the players.

This is going to be a painful situation, so, I'll have to see how next session goes. If they want to explore, I'll pull out the randomly determined terrain rules from the Ultimate Campaign, and take them off the literal map, and have them sandbox it all. More work for me, but it'll let them have more control, I think.

To all of you so far, thank you for the support and ideas. The advice is not going to go to waste, even if I can't use it on this group. Someday, I'll have that perfect group again, where they want to see what encounters and story they stumble into. Or who knows, maybe they'll pull their heads out of that dark, scary place behind them, and this will turn into my best group yet!

Yeah, doesn't sound likely to me too, on that last part, either. But, hey, we can dream, right?

Heimdall, good advice there too. It will take time, but doable, if they don't quit because I'm too limiting to them.

Though, I think the overall problem is they seem to be in the "GM vs Player" mindset.

Thank you all for the advice.

It may be time for a good sit down with these guys, because, frankly, we're not gaming anymore, we're chatting, and we could do that in second life if we wanted to sit there for hours doing nothing.

Though, today, the two trouble makers called off the game to work on something that both of them have time to do the rest of the week / weekend.

Just feels like one slap to the face after another.

I have had an opportunity to run a casual game of Pathfinder, in which we start at 7:30pm and end at 10:30pm, giving me around three hours to run an adventure for five players, 3 male, 2 female, one of said female has never played pathfinder before. I should be pretty excited, as I have run City of The Spider Queen, and a home brewed game, where I got a drow party up to APL of 20 back in 3.0 and 3.5 respectively, with several other games, and I was a GM back at any games days and RPGA events; then this group happened.

Both female players, one being my finance, who has yet to get any special treatment over the other players, have been wanting to actually play the game, roll dice, adventure and go out there and do, well, anything. From the get go, the other members of the game have all but ground the last three game sessions to a halt, even going as far as re-rolling characters, only to complain on how they only get 6,000 gold to spend, and can only spend certain percentages of that gold on items, with a limited quantity (as per page 400 or the Core Rule Book). Two of said male players tend to show up late, almost up till 8pm, at which point, granted, the before game chit chatting happens, so it can be up till 8:15ish, before we even start the game.

So, the game starts, alcohol starts being consumed forthwith, and one drinks enough to drown an Irish pub, it feels. Now, lets go back up to the start of this campaign. I asked them to be heroic characters, or non-evil alignment, and to be a force of good in the world, and that it'd be a King Maker campaign. Alignments are NG Female Paladin (home rule for paladins, is that they can be any good alignment), CG Female Barbarian, NG Male Cleric, CN Male Sorcerer, and LN Male Zen Archer. So far, the cleric has been anything but NG, only looking out for his party, the Zen Archer threatening the helping npc in their party, and those are my two BIG troublemakers, and drinkers of booze. All in all, they're treasure hunters, in a broken, and battle torn land, that for a thousand years saw the worst of a war, leaving being tombs, treasure, and ancient knowledge.

I have done a lot to try to guide this party, via dropping hints at areas of intrigue, name dropping, letting them know that there are two large political and military juggernauts that no one wishes to be on bad terms with. Every encounter, every plot device, and every hint at anything for them to head towards any of the point of interests, skillfully avoided, negated, or ran away from. The idea of running a kingdom, thrown right back into my face, because they don't want to. After they've sold what they've found, via the unavoidable encounters and exploration, they learn that the area they've been traveling in has had several areas that overlap with the plane of shadow, making travel both quicker, but navigating harder. To which the response was to avoid that area at all cost, and travel south instead, for any other ruins. Their helping npc, a cartographer, made it known that if they could find a way to stop the planar bleeding, they could effectively map the region. The response was simple, “We are not heroes, or adventurers, we are mercenaries and entrepreneurs.”

With that said, the helping, npc checks his maps and says there are lands to the south that have been lost, but they'd need traveling papers in order to cross the borders that lead there. It would cost a few gold for normal traveling papers, and a lot more for border traveling papers that are carte-blank, a head. Which, they had used their gold from re-rolling, to buy a year contract with 33 npcs that follow them around, so the cost was fairly high, having just sold their treasure for a whopping 38,000g, however, that shouldn't have been an issue. But, apparently, the cartographer was incompetent for this suggestion, and when the cartographer took offense, the LN Zen Archer threatened the man, that he'd kill him.

So, to sum up everything, without going into too much, further detail, what do I do with this group, that is doing their best to avoid anything that would anchor down a plot, make them heroes, like they agreed to play at the start of the game. Said be said, one player says I'm too limiting (because of the gold per level as per Core Rule Book) and because they are too low level (the're sixth level now), and isn't happy that there are NPCs of note that are more powerful than them.

I know they wanted to kill the NPC that held the title of arch-mage, and that is what made one of the players mad the most when he found out the arch-mage could cast higher level spells than their party members. While the girl who isn't my finance is absolutely pissed, because she saw my plot drops, my trying to get the party to do something, go on an adventure, and wants her CG Barbarian to do some smashy smashy and not role play out the next 14 levels. She's thinking of leaving now, because she's tired of the +15 avoid all the GM's plans rolls the players do.

So far, from friends that no longer live near me, have suggested one thing. “Get a new group.” “Kill them all, and make them re-roll characters that work with the game master.” However, pickers can't be choosers, and as difficult as they're being, this is the only group I know, and short of killing them, thats all kinds of heavy handed, especially to the new girl.

To say the least, I'm not having fun either, with the amount of hours I've spent plotting out encounters, making NPCs, and trying to run the game. If you want me to type out a full story of exactly everything that happened last session, I will. So, I ask, with a general question; What should I do? I need the advice.

Sorry for a rant

Having AHs disguised as a market place is a real disappointment, killing the fantasy atmosphere of the game. In EVE it makes sense, as the setting is past the Information Age. In Fantasy only setting, the Information Age is still very far away. Still to what happens in a Fantasy / Medieval setting, no stock exchanges, no auction houses, etc. Just good old travelling to the shops, looking at the items of ONLY that shop, where almost al prices listed are not fixed, generally bartering possible.

Yes, nothing can be done about out of game meta data tools and methods. Please just keep the Information Age out of the in game Fantasy Setting.

Frankly I don't see the programming complication of having only players shops with individual goods lists, to having a central AH goods list. They essentially have the same background components. There are many MMOs where there is only players and NPC shops that have individual good lists. So there frankly no excuse for getting rid of Information Age Auction Houses out of the in-game Fantasy setting. If the players want to have Information Age technologies, they can have it out of game using what ever methods they like. You never block meta-game information from existing.

According to the wiki, auctions were recorded as early as 500BC. So, fantasy setting, normally out "dark ages," ie the fall of the Roman Empire, it would be more than capable that auctions exist.

Hopefuly included in the gift bags are: soap, water, a hand towel, and a can of overpowering body spray. Funk is not a gift others enjoy. Please wash regularly, often, and for at least 30 minutes as the case may be.

All high level games eventualy leave the rules behind. That is a given. Once you cross the threashold where the PC's can teleport without error the game has always been broken. The "warrior classes" eats your face with 350 damage a round, and don't get me started on the sneak attack damage dice.

It is something you get to know, love/hate about dnd. But, as a player, you'll never have to worry about how the level 17 party is going to handle the 45HD dragon. As the GM you know one thing; they'll handle it. Of course, the players will sweat bullets at first, but when the dragon goes down, and loot goes out, any table will cheer, while any good GM will be glad to have run such a classy encounter.