Aazhog's page

Alright. Well, as I mentioned I’m by no means a Warpriest Savant but here’s a possibility.

Half-orc Warpriest of any God that allows for Strength Blessing, and War Blessing (In this mock up I ran thru Hero Lab I just went with the orcish Blood God for flavour). Human is certainly viable for the extra feat, but I end up returning to Orc Ferocity and fall in love all over again. Considering that I will have access to 6th level spells and Heal I’m even more inclined to place emphasis on Orc Ferocity, or possibly Die Hard if you went Human.

Strength Blessing

Strength of Will: At 10th level, as a swift action you can ignore the movement penalties from wearing medium or heavy armor (or carrying a medium or heavy load) for 1 minute. During this time, you may add your Strength bonus on your saving throws against effects that would paralyze or slow you.

Strength surge: At 1st level, as a swift action you gain an enhancement bonus equal to half your Warpriest level (minimum +1) to melee attacks, combat maneuver checks that rely on Strength, Strength based skills, and Strength checks for one round.

War Blessing

Battle Lust: At 10th level, as a standard action you can touch an ally to grant it a thirst for battle. All of the ally’s melee attacks are treated as if they had the vicious special weapon property, but the extra damage dealt to the ally from that property is non-lethal. In addition, the ally receives a +4 insight bonus on attack rolls made to confirm critical hits. These benefits last for 1 minute.

War Mind: At 1st level, as a standard action you can touch an ally to grant it a tactical advantage for 1 minute. Each round at the start of its turn, it can select one of the following bonuses: +10 feet to base land speed, +1 dodge bonus to AC, +1 insight bonus on attack rolls, or a +1 bonus on saving throws.

Now, admittedly this is my first examination of the Warpriest in any great detail. I would likely ask my DM what constitutes an “ally”. If he’s feeling benevolent enough to broaden that designation to include me, I’d probably clap and dance a little. Knowing my DM as I do, I wouldn’t hold my breath so War is certainly interchangeable as you like. Strength Blessing is a must IMHO.

Stat wise, I do need to consider fervor/smite options. So I placed my high stat emphasis on CHA in this build. STR I don’t feel anything less than 16 is acceptable for a CMB rooted character concept, and I’ll have a ton of options through Enlarge effects and buffs to easily push me into somewhere around 27 strength by endgame, providing that I place at least one stat bump (probably my first) into this ability score, DEX becomes of importance to me almost exclusively for the Initiative modifiers (as I’m going to want full plate armor) and I’m going to want to ready Rhino Charge as an lead-in options at endgame, as well as ensure that I get into my foes before they can scatter and reduce my overall Cleave, Cleaving Finish effectiveness. WIS, I probably don’t need higher than 12, IF I dedicate what remain of my stat bumps exclusively into that stat. CON I can almost call a dump, this build has a relatively good AC, and with Heals as 6th level spells I’m not too concerned about taking a great deal of damage, particularly if I’m reading Sacred Armor correctly and can pile on a +4 enhancement bonus that expressly stacks with ANY existing armor bonuses that I already have. INT is my dump. (in my mock up it was 8)

Feat developmentally, I believe there is still merit to pursuing both the Bullrush AND Overrun feat chains all the way to Greater for wide utility on the battlefield. It just flat allows me to again ask what it is I want to be able to do, and as I touched on in the cleric version of this same kind of concept, I believe that when it comes to formation breaking, you want options.

I still take Bullrush and Overrun all the way to Greater, I also take Charge Through, Cleave, Cleaving Finish, Imp. Vital Strike, and Bull Rush Strike. Bonus Feat selection I chose was Power Attack, Channel Smite, Imp. Initiative, Imp. Overrun, Rhino Charge (I might call Imp. Cleaving Finish interchangable here), and Awesome Blow (which you easily qualify for when Enlarged in some way, and either Raging or buffed.

1st level feat selection remains Combat Reflexes, and unchanged for me. With the potential for massive AoO trigger off of your later Gr. Bullrush and Gr. Overrun maneuvers, you really want to do what you can to take advantage of those sporadic AoO pings.

At 2nd level it gets a little taste sensitive. I dipped two levels of Barbarian into this mock up, and here’s expressly why: I get Rage, but more importantly, I get the only Rage power that I care about – Overbearing Advance:

Overbearing Advance (Ex)

Benefit: While raging, the barbarian inflicts damage equal to her Strength bonus whenever she succeeds at an overrun combat maneuver.

I don’t weep overmuch for losing Fast Movement, I’m going to be charging a lot at double movement and Boots of Striding and Springing or Longstrider are still no brainers. Now you don’t have to dip at all, and you would gain one additional bonus feat if you placed those two levels towards Warpriest you could possibly use for Imp. Cleaving Finish or Extra Channel or whatever feels right.

My arms and armor changes slightly in that I go for full plate, if I’m rich I’m going to likely consider Unrighteous/Righteous depending on my Diety, and maybe even mithral in addition to enhancement bonuses I’m going to receive in the form of Magic Vestment and Sacred Armor.

I still believe that you have to look at Falchion and buckler for a horde sweeper like this. With my combat options around fervor/smite I’m going to keen my falchion and grayflame is also appealing to me with fervor 13 times/day in this build.

Spell selection and supplemental magics don’t really change an awful lot from the Cleric to Warpriest in my estimation. I’m still buffing, I’m still using Metamagic Rods of Quicken against my buffs if I can’t pre-cast et al.

So this was really interesting to me, so I started messing around a little in Hero Lab and playing with this and that. Without asking a bunch of questions about character concept, I just built it in a way that I think would be pretty effective for thinning out piles of mooks employing horde tatics.

Human (Shoanti) Shoanti Shaman Archetype, Cleric of Kostchtchie – I chose Kostchtchie just to get away from the Gorum/Rov love that tends to be default ALL I think is critical in a build of this type is access to the War Domain for Weapon Master at 8th:

Weapon Master (Su): At 8th level, as a swift action, you gain the use of one combat feat for a number of rounds per day equal to your cleric level. These rounds do not need to be consecutive and you can change the feat chosen each time you use this ability. You must meet the prerequisites to use this feat.

I probably consider heavily Ferocity as my second domain but that’s certainly not gospel. In the case of this mock up I chose Demon because Fury of the Abyss synergizes nicely with what I’m trying to do:

Fury of the Abyss (Su): As a swift action, you can give yourself an enhancement bonus equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum +1) on melee attacks, melee damage rolls, and combat maneuver checks. This bonus lasts for 1 round. During this round, you take a –2 penalty to AC. You can use this ability for a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

Feat selection at 1st level is simply Combat reflexes (which you will need deeper into the build to optimize AoO’s off of your Bullrushing AND Overrunning (yes, I am suggesting that you work BOTH feat chains to provide a crazy amount of situational utility). I save my bonus feat selection until 2nd when I BAB at +1 for Power Attack, opening myself up to my Combat Manuever chains I’m going to live and breathe off of. Alternatively, you could take Totem Spirit – Shriikirri-Quah (Hawk Clan) with full intention of retrain. I need Power Attack as soon as I possibly can after all.

My stats are a balancing act. STR is your primary of course (needing thru some measure of base or buff at least 25 strength to open up Awesome Blow as you develop). CON was my choice over DEX because Im building to surround myself with foes off of charge maneuvers and ultimately maximize my useage of Cleave, Gr. Cleave, and Cleaving Finish once I’m in position. Dex requires at least 13 for Combat Reflexes but I intend to buff that thru Cat’s grace as I level to increase my available AoO cap. Int 10 just to preserve my already horrid skill point progression. Wisdom a minimum of 12 with stat bumps helping to improve that later on for spell access. CHA is my dump. I can offset that with a Headband or buff later if I want, but I’m a chain reaction Warpriest I’m not a channel/smite Priest.

I arm myself with a Falchion and buckler. I rely heavily on crits pushing me through enemies I engage off of charges. And I keen it at my first opportunity through any number of means/enchants. As soon as I meet the requirements I’m attaching Vital Strike.

At 2nd level I dip Fighter (Ultimately I want no more than 3 lvls in this dip, but I like Armor Training at Fighter 3rd because mobility is going to be a main-stay for me throughout my career. I’ll equip with an agile mithril breastplate asap and with Magic Vestment never think about it again).

As I progress I ENSURE I work up to Imp. Bullrush, Imp. Overrun, and Cleave. I can after 8th level when it’s my time to shine utilize my Weapon Master Domain power to pick at will from most any combat feat my situation requires of me. I’ll qualify for Cleaving Finish, Gr. Bullrush, Gr. Overrun, Charge Through, Rhino Charge, Awesome Blow and everything in between really because of that killer War Domain Power. If I really want to put a foe away following a successful Overrun or Bullrush I’ll pop the cap on an Imp. Vital Strike and put some dice in the air.

Buff spells are my primary focus, metamagic rods of Quicken later in life give me an added angle if I haven’t had an opportunity to pre-cast.

I have a few castings or a Rod full of Grace incase I need to get out of the mess Ive put myself in quickly without provoking nasty AoO’s while I’m beat up. Boots of Striding and Springing or Longstrider if I’m in good with a Druid and Im feeling pretty capable as a Horde Sweeper.

I hope that helps as a just messing around sort of maybe for you. Oh, and one last thing - NEVER underestimate the useage of Enlarge type spells.

Edit: And Aazhog, apparently it is not clear as many have disagreed with you across several pages of debate. Many even stated that him "executing" it, even without trial and such, is not in fact an evil action. The only thing you really have to stand on right now is intent, and the only thing you have intent off of is that he's willing to allow it to be raised later. You don't know why he's willing.

Fortunately, I’m not required to “stand on” anything. I’m not lobbying to win a popularity contest of some sort. I’m merely attempting to engage in sharing my opinion. Which I think I have, fairly reasonably and unbiased if I do say so myself. As far as intent, we know the intent, as I stated above and the OP stated at the outset of discussion. Angry paladin, murderous intent for personal perception of crime. Which I may add, is only a crime by the laws of human society. Animals and beasts hold no such courts regarding slaughter. Must have something to do with that whole neutral thing.

Did it ever occur to you that in a world where everyone gets a free raise dead, killing it and then converting it to good by any number of ways of speaking with spirits while its dead is far safer to the general populace? There's no chance of it breaking its word, no chance of running amok, it felt no extra pain cause it was already unconscious and frankly decapitation is a very quick way to go.

I think Korthis answered this pretty brilliantly in his Edit 2. But Sure, I’ll go one step further. In the PF setting Raise Dead is NOT a mulligan by anyone’s measure. The slain creature must be willing to accept the spell or it fails. Now why would a purely instinctive creature accept a raise dead from the very people that slew it after seeking parlay?

At the end of the day, this paladin eliminated a threat that had attacked him that could still be spoken with, still be negotiated with, and subsequently brought back if it did change alignment.

It was no longer a threat of any kind the second it was incapacitated. Please note that I’m not saying that killing the creature was in and of itself an evil act. I’m saying killing a defenseless creature that poses no further threat is. I’d have had NO issue whatsoever had the paladin left the wyvern to bleed out or not – presumably at the will of the Gods ;)

One last contribution and then I think I’ll have said more than my fair share.

In cases of GM adjudication you MUST deal in specifics. You cannot consider well-if-thens, you must only rule based off of what you know to be factual (note that there are exceptions to this fundamental policy). There DO exist a number of possibilities to justify this particular Paladin’s actions. Except that we know that he murdered this particular foe not out of any perception of holy justice, but because the beast had angered him. It was, as has been mentioned above, executing a murder for vengeance sake.

We cannot rule on the basis of what we “believe” the creatures alignment to be (unless of course the DM has specifically already chosen to make that house rule amendment). The Wyvern as canon is neutral. It’s a particularly violent and primal neutral to be sure. The creature acts almost solely out of primal instinct.

Like a particularly vicious or aggressive dog that attacks anything that enters its self-proclaimed territory one could argue. Now, there IS a very strong argument for putting down that particular dog. There is an equally strong potential to argue that with proper training that dog could become a loyal and faithful pet. But in this case, if the information that has been presented is factual and accurate, then the paladin has (again in my opinion) most definitively Fallen. Not for attacking the creature, but for summarily executing the wyvern once the danger had been overcome and the foe vanquished.

Let me reiterate. The instant that THIS paladin executed his CdG for the “heinous” crime of an instinctive creature doing what that instinctive creature does, and not for virtuous or altruistic justice, it becomes murderous and he has Fallen. Short of a God of Murder that somehow possesses paladins of His or Her faith, this is not a grey area of debate here folks. This particular situation, if accurate, is excessively clear. In my humble opinion anyway.

Now, let’s not forget the great spontaneous rp that can occur out of this type of a scenario. Quests for Atonement and a return to Grace can be amazingly passionate and personal sidebars for any character. And for what it’s worth, it lets your player know that as a DM you have limits, AND that actions possess consequence.

Some really sound, intelligent points. Also, a lot of silly tripe that seems to me to roll out at the end of the day as elevating "good" to synonymous with "stupid".

To weigh in. Charging in on the heels of battle to drop an aggressor who initiated the combat in the first place is not in and of itself an "evil" act. Considerations of the scenerio or not there simply isn't the convenience of time for the Paladin to go through the laundry list of why's and what fors as I understand the play to have ocurred.

However.

Slaying a vanquished, defenseless foe, who no longer poses to you or your companions a direct threat of death or injury, in the aftermath? Very clear Fall.

Sidenote for the sake of stating the obvious: Your player isn't capable of playing a paladin to begin with.