I was under the impression that when a creature says something like "melee 2 claw +5 (1d6+4)" that it was a single attack preformed by two claws. As in you roll 1d6+mod. After looking at the hydra however i got confused because this huge creature says it only does: Melee 6 bites +7 (1d8+3). Now how does this relate to a druid who has +6/+1 and takes the form of a Dire Lion "Melee bite +12 (1d8+7 plus grab), 2 claws +13 (1d6+7)?"
My understanding is that you would get the two attacks at full BAB+mods, but I would like to think you could make one more attack at the lower BAB of 1+mods. My other problem is that surely the hydra does not make only one attack... So would the lion then make two claw attacks...
"You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack"
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/magical-beasts/hydra/hydr a-6-headed
When it says "2 claws", it means two separate attacks, each at the same bonus, dealing the listed damage.
Natural attacks are funny in that they do not follow the usual rules for iterative attacks from having a high base attack bonus. A 2 HD pony with two hoof attacks always has those 2 attacks, even if it becomes an animal companion and gets a base attack bonus in the teens - it's always just 2 hooves, regardless.
So, in the case of your druid, regardless of his base attack bonus, in dire lion form he gets the one bite and 2 claws.
"melee 2 claw +5 (1d6+4)" means that you roll two attacks, both at +5 bonus to-hit.
So you'd roll 1d20+5. If it hit, you roll 1d6+4. You then roll 1d20+5 again, for the second claw. If it hits, you roll 1d6+4 again.
When druids are in wild shape, they get all the natural attacks. So they'd get the bite and the two claw attacks.
Your number of attacks based on BAB has little to nothing to do with the number of attacks you can do with natural attacks. That druid with +6/+1 could make those three attacks just fine. 5 if he's pouncing.
Characters with natural attacks are fearsome at low levels. If your changeling full attacks at level one, she hits twice! That's twice as good as a fighter or barb!
The downside is the amulet of many fists is expensive. But you only need one.
At high levels the number of iterative attacks you have are usually better than natural attacks. Unless you have natural attacks that you can use in conjunction with your weapon, like a bite or tail sting.
Then you might see this
Long sword +16/+11/+6/+1 (1d8 19-20 x2) and bite +11 (1d6 x2) and tail stinger +11 (1d4 x2) plus poison
That's 6 attacks, 3 of them at BAB -5, because if you use a manufactured weapon all natural attacks become secondary (done at -5 BAB)
Go chew up some fools with your tengu.
So is there a cap on the number of natural attacks a druid/character in general can make? Like when you get Superchange(Form of the DragonIII...) at level 17 is there a cap on the number of of attacks? Otherwise you would end up making a stupid amount of attacks, but then again you would be level 17...
You can only use each natural attack a total of one time. So the limit is the number of natural attacks the form you take on has.
Natural primary attacks are all made at full BAB (unless otherwise specified).
Natural secondary attacks generally follow the full BAB-5 formula (unless otherwise specified).
I generally consider special attacks secondary.
Like a treant's slam attacks are primary, but his trample attack is secondary.
Also noteworthy is the STR bonus factor. Single primary attack gets 150% bonus, but 2 claws as a primary attack gets only 150% bonus.
Exception:
A half orc can take the "Toothy" racial trait, giving them a natural primary bite attack (and they can use 150% str bonus).
But if they take the "Razortusk" feat, it says it's a secondary attack instead (gaining only 100% str bonus).
I assume this is flavor text in the fashion that the racial trait means they are trained from birth to use their tusks as a weapon and choosing the feat simply means they sharpen their tusks at some point and it's not an "innate" ability.
So in this case, when applying the "Improved Natural Attack" Feat to a Natural Attack Ranger that says "2 Claws +5 (1d4+4)," does it increase the damage die on both claws or only one?
If it only changes one, does one simply notate it as "Claw +5 (1d6+4), Claw +5 (1d4+4)"?
You choose a type of natural attacks for it to work with, so in this case both claws would be bumped up a die.
You choose a type of natural attacks for it to work with, so in this case both claws would be bumped up a die.
While I agree with you, I feel like there could be alternate interpretations to the RAW vocabulary.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monster-feats/improved-natural-attack
"Choose one of the creature's natural attack forms (not an unarmed strike). The damage for this natural attack increases by one step on the following list, as if the creature's size had increased by one category... Special: This feat can be taken multiple times. Each time it is taken, it applies to a different natural attack."
You choose a type of natural attacks for it to work with, so in this case both claws would be bumped up a die.
This. The wording is such to account for other attacks. So, you wouldn't be able to use it for the Bite AND Claw attacks, but if the primary attack was 2 claws or 2 slams, both of those claws or slams would be bumped.
Basically, consider the attack of "2 claws" as a single primary attack that hits twice.
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Referring to the specific wording, "Claw attack" is a "natural attack form." It does not mean to distinguish between "left claw" and "right claw."
Razortusk's bite is only secondary if used as part of a full attack (presumably with manufactured weapons, as is standard for combining natural attacks and weapon attacks).
You can make a bite attack for 1d4 points of damage, plus your Strength modifier. You’re considered proficient in this attack and can apply feats or effects appropriate to natural attacks to it. If used as part of a full attack action, the bite is considered a secondary attack and is made at your full base attack bonus –5, and adds half your Strength modifier to damage.
It does however specifically state that you add Str modifier to damage, and not 1.5 Str modifier as is usual for a sole primary natural attack. Toothy doesn't have the same specific exception built in, so I assume you are correct about it allowing 1.5 Str, assuming the character in question does not have any other natural attacks.
Some half-orcs' tusks are large and sharp, granting a bite attack. This is a primary natural attack that deals 1d4 points of piercing damage
You choose a type of natural attacks for it to work with, so in this case both claws would be bumped up a die.While I agree with you, I feel like there could be alternate interpretations to the RAW vocabulary.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monster-feats/improved-natural-attack
"Choose one of the creature's natural attack forms (not an unarmed strike). The damage for this natural attack increases by one step on the following list, as if the creature's size had increased by one category... Special: This feat can be taken multiple times. Each time it is taken, it applies to a different natural attack."
You're looking too deep into this. Let's use a treant as an example. A treant's natural attack form is 2 slams. He also gets a trample attack as a secondary natural attack.
What this feat says is that you can choose the feat ONCE to increase the dice of the 2 slams (considered it's primary attack) and you can choose the feat again to have it also apply to the trample (considered it's secondary attack).
So, on paper it would look like this:
FEATS:
Improved Natural Attack (Slam)
Improved Natural Attack (Trample)
The first feat would step his slam dice up, the second his trample dice.
As blackbloodtroll says, it works just like Weapon Focus. Or are you of the mind that, assuming a dual wield character, he'd have to take Weapon Focus (left dagger) and Weapon Focus (right dagger) instead of just Weapon Focus (Dagger)?
As blackbloodtroll says, it works just like Weapon Focus. Or are you of the mind that, assuming a dual wield character, he'd have to take Weapon Focus (left dagger) and Weapon Focus (right dagger) instead of just Weapon Focus (Dagger)?
Nope. You are absolutely right.
So in this case, when applying the "Improved Natural Attack" Feat to a Natural Attack Ranger that says "2 Claws +5 (1d4+4)," does it increase the damage die on both claws or only one?
If it only changes one, does one simply notate it as "Claw +5 (1d6+4), Claw +5 (1d4+4)"?
I'd actually be more curious to ask how the Ranger got a Monster Feat. Is this an archetype or some content that I may have missed? Because if so, I can see a Shapechanging Druid/Ranger in my near future...
Huh. Never took a real hard look at a Pathfinder Ranger.
And I suppose you're right, even though the Monster Feats say MOST of these feats are specifically for monsters, PCs might qualify.
A Ranger who uses natural attacks and has a +4 BAB does indeed qualify for the feat...and if it's on the bonus feat list they may not even need the prerequisite...