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Fiendish Baboon

tocath's page

Goblin Squad Member. 208 posts. 1 review. No lists. No wishlists. 3 aliases.


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Tels wrote:


The Scout Archetype only works if you make a charge. If you aren't charging, you don't get the Sneak Attack. It's not like the 3E Scout class where you get bonus damage for moving 10 feet, the archetype requires a charge, which is a full-round action.

Not true. Once a Scout hits 8th level, they don't need to be charging anymore. Any time they move ten feet and attack, they do sneak attack. That means they can dogleg: move 5 feet, go around an obstacle to the foe and sneak attack; something that isn't possible with charge.

Rules:

Skirmisher (Ex)

At 8th level, whenever a scout moves more than 10 feet in a round and makes an attack action, the attack deals sneak attack damage as if the target was flat-footed. If the scout makes more than one attack this turn, this ability only applies to the first attack. Foes with uncanny dodge are immune to this ability.

This ability replaces improved uncanny dodge.


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Hard Cider and Manhattans.

Cider - I spent a month in England this year, and loved how every pub would have cider on tap. Really most anything will scratch the itch, dry or sweet. Samuel Smith's, Hornsby, even Woodchuck.

Manhattans. I am currently barrel aging my own mix with local-to-me Stranahan Colorado whisky, equal parts sweet and dry vermouth, and Fee Bros. Rhubarb bitters. It's been aging about a month now, and comes out so smooth.


Just an alternate POV to “Ninjas can’t hit.”

I do think that the ¾ BAB really hurts Ninjas, and I feel that rogues should get Weapon Finesse for free, but there are ways around it.

I run an STR based Ninja. He struggles far more with staying healthy than with hitting, but he spends much of the time invisible so getting hurt is thankfully rare.

LVL 8 Angel Blooded Aasimar Ninja
STR 20 (With a belt of giant strength+2, and boosts at 4 & 8)
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 8
CHA 16

His “normal” attack pattern is:
+1 Keen Katana: +13/+8
• +6/+1 BAB
• +5 from STR
• +1 from magic weapon
• +1 from Weapon Focus: Katana

Nearly all the time though, his attack pattern is actually
+1 Keen Katana: +19/+14.
• Same bonuses as before, PLUS
• +2 from Invisibility
• +4 from flanking with Outflank (or +2 from regular flanking if you can’t convince your party to get the teamwork feat. For us, it was a no-brainer.)
• And all this vs. the target’s Flat Footed AC.

With this build, I’ve not struggled with hitting at all. And it actually makes sense to me that Ninja shouldn’t be able to take a lot of damage. The idea behind the class is being difficult to find and killing your enemy before they realize the danger.


Question regarding Outflank:

Feat Description:
Benefit: Whenever you and an ally who also has this feat are flanking the same creature, your flanking bonus on attack rolls increases to +4. In addition, whenever you score a critical hit against the flanked creature, it provokes an attack of opportunity from your ally.

Assume a party of three, each with the teamwork feat Outflank. This party has a Magus (M), Ninja (N) and Fighter (F)

The party flanks a large (or bigger) opponent.

NF
OO
OO
M

The Magus gets a critical hit. The Ninja and the Fighter are on the other side and both are in flanking position with the Magus (but not with each other.) May they both make attacks of opportunity, or only one? Does the +4 to attack rolls apply only to one "pair" or to all three?


A few other thoughts:

I prefer Offensive Defensive to Befuddling Strike. It scales with your character, so that by 5th level you are getting a +3 bonus to your AC instead of +2. Now, that's only for one round, but unless you are switching targets, you're likely to hit the same guy again on your turn, so your bonus will continue. As written, it's perhaps overpowered, but the devs have posted a recommendation in the FAQ that limits the bonus to attacks from your target only.

You may want to consider the feat Iron Will. Your Will save is going to be your weakest, and it pays to remember: a failed Reflex hurts you, a failed Fort can kill you, a failed Will can make you kill your party.

Finally, Havoq is right about combat rounds for many games. Some games however have a short adventuring day, like my Skull and Shackles campaign. There, we often go days between raiding ships, combat rarely lasts more than 5 rounds, and I haven't run out of ki yet.

I would suggest playing a few sessions, see what the flow is and what you have fun with. Then you can retrain (if your GM lets you) using the new rules from Ultimate Campaign.


I have to agree with Havoq re: brute Ninjas. High STR + two handing a Katana + Power Attack + Sneak Attack can do some good damage. I would add that Lunge fixes the need for a reach weapon nicely if you can take the hit to your AC. The other nice thing about a STR based Ninja is that it eliminates the need for Weapon Finesse. Both your damage and your "to hit" come from the same place...

As for survivability, I like the following routine, which would work just fine for your TWF:

First round - Charge a flatfooted opponent. With your boosted initiative, you should be able to find a target. Sneak attack, then vanish.

Second round - Sneak attack, vanish.

You essentially avoid being hit by vanishing just before you end your turn, lowering your chances of being the "soft target." And if you want, you can ensure sneak attack on charge, even if you fail initiative, by going with the Scout / Ninja combo.


Looks good. I'm playing a brute Ninja, lvl 6 right now which is a bit of a different approach, but I see a lot of utility here!

A few questions:

Is perform poetry purely a flavor decision?

The challenge here is going to be getting your second sneak attack with TWF. The opening sneak is easy with Vanishing Trick, but the next swipe will require flanking or other tricks until level 10. Do you have good options for flanking buddies in the rest of the group?

Does darkness play a large part with your DM? If so, getting the darkvision trick or a set of goggles early on will be critical.


The nice thing about vanishing trick is that between that, scout charge, initiative, and flanking, you can get a sneak attack every round with no difficulty. And if your build is based on SA, using it every round is a good bet.


tocath wrote:

Martryn,

I am playing a brute Ninja in our Skull and Shackles campaign, and having great fun.

Tatsuyo, lvl 5 Angel blooded Aasimar Ninja (Scout)

20 point buy. The Angel Blooded Aasimar gives a bump to both STR and CHA, so the final scores are:

Oh, and the Aasimar is a bit higher race buy, too, but my GM solved this by dropping the spell like ability. No biggie.


Martryn,

I am playing a brute Ninja in our Skull and Shackles campaign, and having great fun.

Tatsuyo, lvl 5 Angel blooded Aasimar Ninja (Scout)

20 point buy. The Angel Blooded Aasimar gives a bump to both STR and CHA, so the final scores are:

Str 17 (+1 bump at 4th)
Dex 16
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 16

Feats:
Dodge, Iron Will, Weapon Focus: Katana

Tricks:
Vanishing Trick (INCREDIBLE), Combat Trick: Power Attack.

I’m at 5th now, and love playing this character. Sneak attacks absolutely wreck things, especially when double handing a +1 Keen Katana.

Also, I disagree strongly that STR is overdone on your build. A good high STR will keep you hitting, which is critical with the 3/4 BAB Ninja.

A favorite tactic is:

1st turn - Charge, scout sneak attack on charge, swift action vanish at the end of the turn.
2nd turn - sneak attack, vanish.
Repeat for fun and profit and a low likelihood of being hit.

The only concern I have with your build is your ki pool. I intentionally boosted CHA for just this reason. More vanishing trick is a good thing.

I would see if your GM would consider the following home rule. Instead of +1 skill point or +1 hit point, see if your GM will consider +1/4 ki pool ala human monk. If so, this is a great way to get another ki point or two for not a lot of expenditure. At 5th level, I have 6 ki total thanks in part to this and in part thanks to my CHA bonus.

Finally, I am just getting to the point where I am considering Shuriken. Flurry of stars seems like it could have some great synergy with Pressure points if you can get all sneak attacks with them. Attack and suddenly the enemy is down 2, 3 or even 4 STR damage. Not shabby.


tocath wrote:


Jhavhul will be far stronger on his home turf (give him a level bump for his daring escape from the players)

Or, more likely, draw him down in power for the initial confrontation at Pale Mountain and then restore him for the final showdown in Bayt Al Bazan.


Evil Lincoln wrote:


This basically confirms my thought process.

So how would you structure it? The players leave Kakishon and emerge... in Kelmarane? Perhaps one of the buildings has become a designated "treasury" for Davashuum and the scroll was kept there? They quickly run into Nefeshti and carry on with the plot as presented.

Then how to handle the transition from book 6 to book 5? The players basically run off Jhavul by defeating him, but he needs the means to escape back to the plane of fire (no problem, he's a genie).

At this point, with higher level PCs I'd be tempted to abandon the Sultan's curse, but keep Ezer Hazzebaim trapped in the Impossible Eye (that's probably how Jhavul turned the tables on him to begin with; maybe he wished for "all the powers of the Impossible eye and Jhavul granted it by trapping him inside?)

No curse means the players are free to use the City...

These are all great thoughts. I think lifting the curse is certainly excellent.

I would also set up Shazathared as an ally / friend / half-sister to Nefeshti. Perhaps Nefeshti sends the players to the City of Brass with a plea to rescue Shazathared from Bayt Al Bazan. Nefeshti might also hint that Jhavhul will be far stronger on his home turf (give him a level bump for his daring escape from the players), and that Shazathared may have discovered some keys to his undoing.

That gives the players a reason to be wandering the innards of the palace instead of just flying to the top and pouncing on Jhavhul. You may also fortify the exterior heavily with ranged casters to discourage such tactics. If the party takes to the air, the casters give them a pounding and try to force them to the ground...

Finally, I would reduce the faction element. Most if not all will re-establish loyalty to Jhavhul when he returns. The big dog is back, the time for turf wars is over. Jhavhul might even string up a ring leader or two to make that exact point.


I would highly recommend finding a way to switch the two. My players wrapped up LOF a few months ago as written, but I think it would have been better had I seen this thread before hand.

As it is, books 4 and 5 have far too many similarities. Consider the following summary, which describes either book, just with different window dressing.

Against their will, the players are sent to an alternate plane of existence which previously served as a home to the efreeti Jhavhul. Travel away from this strange plane is blocked by powerful magic, and the group has no choice but to find the key to their release. Trapped without hope of resupply, the group must explore, meeting along the way powerful factions (which have been further split by Jhavhul’s departure) each of which vie for control of this plane.

Yeah. Basically, we got to book five and it felt as if we were doing a less fun version of End of Eternity again. If instead the players had chosen to go to the plane of fire to defeat Jhavhul, and had they been more "storming the castle" I think that would have gone much better.


I would add that a significant thing that breaks the sense of a cohesive arc is when an adventure path seems to re-use the same storytelling formula.

A good (or bad) example of this is Legacy of Fire. I GMed Legacy and loved it. My players loved it. But, books four and five felt eerily similar to us.

Consider the following summary, which could apply equally well to either book.

Against their will, the players are sent to an alternate plane of existence which previously served as a home to the efreeti Jhavhul. Travel away from this strange plane is blocked by powerful magic, and the group has no choice but to find the key to their release. Trapped without hope of resupply, the group must explore, meeting along the way powerful factions (which have been further split by Jhavhul’s departure) each of which vie for control of this plane.

Yeah. That all felt a little too familiar to me, and I had to change a good bit to make book five feel more "new". Arcs should avoid reusing the same storytelling formula, especially in books that occur back to back.


Left a message on Youtube, Gringoire. Are there still redeem codes available?

My biggest question was if it would track expendable resources like Ki Pool...


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UltraFennec wrote:

Yes, they focus on the Rebellion era. Is that such a problem? Really?

Yes, the first release focuses on fringe worlds and "scum of the galaxy." The Rebellion+Empire and Jedi books are coming. Is that so bad to wait awhile?

+1. FFG's release plan has a nice synergy with the films.

A New Hope starts with fringers and scoundrels. Tatooine, the cantina, Greedo, scavenger Jawas, an introduction to Jabba, etc. To paraphrase Luke, if there's a bright center to the universe, ANH kicks off on the planet that it's farthest from. To me that's also the perfect place to start dabbling around with a new set of rules.


Berik wrote:
There we go! Gifts should now be sent to Oceanshieldwolf, tocath and Cursed and Geas'd! Arkady Zelenka needs to pick a tribe, Taliesin needs to pick a map and we still have days 6 and 11 available! Trust me, Points of Light is fun reading and while I don't have it the adventure for the 11th day looks neat and is well reviewed. :)

Thanks much, Berik! That is awesome!


Berik, you are awesome! I'll take day 5, specifically the Squole!


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Interesting...

This claims Episode VII will be an "original story" and not the Thrawn books.


I'm torn on the EU.

Thrawn was fantastic and part of me would like to see him stay "canon".

Dark Empire was a lot of fun.

The Jedi Academy series was decent and provided a nice look at how new Jedi were trained.

The Yuuzhan Vong were a waste of time. Horrible. I read half a dozen of the books, but they no longer felt like Star Wars, so I eventually abandoned them altogether.

All told, I'd prefer they wipe the EU slate clean rather than try to incorporate the Vong into 6, 7 and 8. Plus, wiping the slate would give a whole new generation of writers the opportunity to put their own spin on the expanded universe...


Black Powder Chocobo wrote:


EDIT: Realized tocath beat me to the Ally McBeal /shake tiny stick figure fist...

Mwuhuhahaha!


Stoner Sense - You know where the nearest bodega is and where the last Funyun fell.

Spelling Bane - Target is unable to remember if it's i before e or the other way around.

Sappy Master - You are skilled at composing treacly sweet and sentimental sayings.


I was just thinking that most of these things could totally make an appearance in Munchkin.

Might have to petition Steve Jackson.


Back, and with Wondrous Items!

Apparatus of the Imitation Crab - Enchanted food processor transforms 1 pound of Alaskan Pollock into "crab" spread. All creatures who see the spread must make a will save or spend 1d4 rounds helping themselves to "just one more cracker."

Bag of Withholding - Gold put into the Bag of Withholding is deducted from your Wealth by Level, allowing you to complain to the GM that you are underpowered.

Efficient Quivering in Your Boots - Magical boots make fear more efficient. -2 to all fear based will saves, but any fear effects only last for one round and can be dismissed with a move action.


cartmanbeck wrote:


Thanks! I'm glad you find it helpful. I know there will be some people who will disagree with me on some points, but for the most part I'm trying to be unbiased. Except for the gunslinger. I hate the gunslinger, and it shows. LOL

One thing. It looks like all racial feats are blue. Intended?


cartmanbeck wrote:


I definitely am including sections on every single base class, archetype suggestions, as well as which alternate favored class bonuses are good and which prestige classes work best for each race also. If you'd like a preview, I'll post what I have so far here: Races of Pathfinder (so far)

This is fantastic. Seriously, a hugely helpful guide with details about alternate racial traits, favored class bonuses, racial feats, etc. Thanks for putting in the effort on this!


Adderall Strike – A target with more than one attack must chill out and calm down. Target loses all those spastic attacks for 1d4 rounds.

Reclusive Redirection – force your opponent off your damn lawn.

Gore Vidal Strike – Snarky commentary reduces one target to tears and leaves them helpless for 1 round.

Nothing but Net and Trident – Use your trident to net enemy heads from downtown.


And throwing some feats into the mix as well, cause hey, why not?

Stunning Critical Reception - they love you, they really love you!

Death or Fortune and Glory, Kid - you may explain the Pathfinder Society to Short Round.

Hairpin down - use momentum and a sharp corner to grapple an opponent. "CORNER!"


Summon Nature’s Ally McBeal - The less said about this spell the better.

Blue Blood Rage - a targeted member of the 1% becomes furious and calls its senator.


Just passed 4mil including PayPal!


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Telekinetic Charge of the Light Brigade - You may launch up to 600 allies into battle at a distance of half a league. Most of them will probably die, though.

Feather Fallout - Infuse one tiny or diminutive object with nuclear radiation. The object gains a nuclear aura of 15 feet and deals 1d6 negative energy damage per round to anyone within that aura.


heliopolix wrote:


Freedom of Bowel Movement needs no explanation.

Handy for wizards who are getting on in years!


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Intercontinental Ballistic Misdirection - While this spell is active, if you would be affected by a spell or spelllike effect and the caster does not have line of sight to you, the spell is instead redirected to your nearest foe.

Word of Recall Me Maybe - A somewhat less effective version of the popular teleportation spell. On a percentile roll of 25%, the caster is instead transported to a teenybopper concert.


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

Grease Lightning Target creature takes 1d4 electricity damage/level (Max 5d4) and drops anything held (Reflex Negates).

I think this should actually be put into an expanded arcana book!


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St. Elmo's Fireball - You point your finger and unleash a howling ball of Emilio Estevez which deals 1d6 contractual damage. For every added caster level, you may add to the ball an additional brat pack actor or actress from the cast of Breakfast Club or St. Elmo's Fire for an additional 1d6 of damage.

Shield of Faith no More - You are surrounded by 1d4 axe wielding musicians who act as meat shields.


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I introduce the cousin to the comically mispelled spell:

THE SPELLMANTEAU.

1. Take a spell.
2. Mash it together with something else, portmanteau style.
3. Profit?


Edited my review. Thanks much, Jason!


And I would just say that it is probably more than just requirements. For example, if there is a way to word the addendum in such a way as to impact things like this as well, that would be ideal.

"You can use Ki Focus a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom bonus." or "These temporary hit points do not stack with any other temporary hit points and last for a number of hours equal to your Wisdom modifier or until expended."


Jason Nelson wrote:

By the way, in reference to the review posted by "tocath," I should say it's a funny thing that happens sometimes when you are editing, that you are so sure that you put something in there that your mind just kind of slides right past it when it's not there, and it's sort of a non-obvious point so even when others are reading over your manuscript they may not catch it.

To wit: Tocath is correct; ninjas *ARE* supposed to substitute their Cha for the Wis prerequisite for all these feats. I'll go in and adjust the files when I check back on the problem with Ki Tattoo later on after work, so we should have the revised files fixed up and reposted soon.

Thanks for pointing out the oversight, and hopefully you'll be happy to re-review the product once that has been corrected.

Jason,

I would love to re-review it! Thanks so much for following up so quickly!


Bringing this comment over to this side from my review since I'm seeing some stuff from the authors!

First off, GREAT production value. I love the look and feel of this! Second, a great number of the feats look very cool.

However, I have a few beefs. You mention ninja a few times in the product brief, saying "expanded options for the the monk, ninja, and samurai."

The problem is that nearly all of the feats assume a WIS based ki pool and character build. Ninja are CHA ki pool based, and most Ninja builds I have made and seen keep WIS at 10 or perhaps 12 in favor of bumping up CHA, DEX and STR or CON.

Specifically, most feats have Wis 13 as a requirement and base the length of effect or strength of impact on the Wisdom modifier.

It would be nice if somewhere near the front it said, "Ninjas use their Charisma score in place of Wisdom for purposes of feat requirements and for the number of rounds that effects last for all feats in this book."


c873788 wrote:


16 str; 12 con; 14 dex; 10 int; 10 wis; 14 chr

Lets pick bludgeoner and sap adept as 1st and 3rd level feats (Note: bite and claw attacks surprisingly do bludgeoning damage as well).

3 attacks (+2 BAB and +3 Str) to hit with no penalty for 2...

This build also seems like it would pair well with Snake Style. You already have Improved unarmed strike for free for purposes of your natural attacks.

Skill Focus: Sense Motive would really start to make a lot of sense with this build as well!


Thanks much for the trip guide! I've crafted up a Gnoll Guisarme fighter to throw at my group this coming weekend.

I would picture these working in pairs or even a trio. We'll see. Comments welcome.

Gnoll Guisarme Tripper:

UNNAMED HERO CR 9
Male Gnoll Fighter (Polearm Master) 9
CE Medium Humanoid (Gnoll)
Init +3; Senses Darkvision; Perception +10
--------------------
DEFENSE
--------------------
AC 23, touch 13, flat-footed 21. . (+9 armor, +1 Dex, +1 natural, +1 deflection, +1 dodge)
hp 90 (9d10+2d8+22)
Fort +10, Ref +6, Will +2
--------------------
OFFENSE
--------------------
Spd 20 ft.
Melee +1 Defending Guisarme +18/+13 (2d4+9/20/x3) and
. . Gauntlet (from Armor) +14/+9 (1d3+4/20/x2) and
. . Unarmed Strike +14/+9 (1d3+4/20/x2)
Special Attacks Pole Fighting -3, Steadfast Pike +2
--------------------
STATISTICS
--------------------
Str 18, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 8, Cha 6
Base Atk +10; CMB +14 (+18 Tripping); CMD 27 (29 vs. Trip)
Feats Cleave, Combat Expertise +/-3, Combat Reflexes (4 AoO/round), Dodge, Greater Trip, Improved Trip, Lunge, Outflank, Power Attack -3/+6, Toughness +11, Weapon Focus: Guisarme
Skills Acrobatics +10, Climb +0, Escape Artist +2, Fly -1, Intimidate +3, Perception +10, Ride -1, Sense Motive +10, Stealth -1, Swim +0
Languages Common, Gnoll
SQ Flexible Flanker (Ex)
Combat Gear +1 Defending Guisarme, +2 Field Plate; Other Gear Ring of Protection, +1
--------------------
SPECIAL ABILITIES
--------------------
Cleave If you hit a foe, attack an adjacent target at the same attack bonus but take -2 AC.
Combat Expertise +/-3 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Combat Reflexes (4 AoO/round) You may make up to 4 attacks of opportunity per round, and may make them while flat-footed.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Flexible Flanker (Ex) Choose an adjacent square for the purpose of determining who you are flanking.
Greater Trip +2 to Trip, target provokes AoO when tripped.
Improved Trip You Trip at +2 and don't cause an attack of opportunity.
Lunge -2 to AC for +5' reach
Outflank Flanking bonus increases to +4 if the other flanker also has this feat, and ally gets an AoO if you score a critical hit against the target.
Pole Fighting -3 (Ex) Use a spear or polearm against adjacent targets with a -3 penalty.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Steadfast Pike +2 (Ex) +2 to hit on readied attacks and AoO with polearms & spears.


An explosion in the sky you say?

I suppose this means the Earth is not a cold dead place.


James, sorry if this has been asked before. I see some threads on it, but no official response.

Can you tumble while making a charge? IE, Rogue wants to charge an orc who is 20 feet away, and her ally and a hobgoblin are engaged just off to the side of her charging lane. So, when she runs through the space the hobgoblin threatens, she draws an AoO. Can she tumble through those threatened squares instead as part of her charge?


j b 200 wrote:

Yeah, I don't own UE so I haven't had a chance to go through the new items and update the guide with them. I do have Wyroot in the equipment section already (since it's from ARG). I will include your suggestions, with an obvious caveat that I can't independently evaluate them.

How much are the Eyes of Keen Sight? because the Eyes of the Eagle (one of my personal fave items) gives +5 and is only 2500gp.

Eyes of Keen sight are good deal more expensive at 6000gp.


A few more:

Iron Spike of Safe Passage - nail it into the ground, create a 15 foot high, 15 foot wide illusion. Could be a hill, crates and barrels, mound of rubble, or a small structure. Instant camo, then when you are done pull it back up.

Eyes of Keen Sight - spectacles. +2 to Perception and low light vision.

Of course, the trouble with all of these is the cost. It will take you a bit to aquire any of these. As I build my char, I may go through and stat up a quick "Ninja kit" with handy items for first level.


JB, First of all, thanks for a fantastic guide!

I've been building up a Ninja and Ultimate Equipment has some great selections. Here's a few that I think you might call out in your guide...

Ring of Ki Mastery - Store 2 ki points and ninja tricks cost less, still 1 point minimum. This makes forgotten trick far more viable.

Amulet of Hidden Strength - recover two ki pool points per day.

Stalking - this is a weapon enchantment. Assign the weapon a target to study. For each round you study the target, the weapon gets +1d6 precision damage up to the max weapon bonus (ie +3). I see this as ideal for a secondary weapon like a dagger. Whip it out, target something, start sneaking up on your target, kill with weapon damage + sneak attack + stalking precision.

Wyroot - this is a weapon material. Can only apply to weapons made of wood (ie nunchaku) or to things with a wooden haft (ie longspear). Wyroot recovers ki pool on critical strikes. Ideally you would want this on something with an expanded crit range. Unfortunately, from what I can see, there are no weapons the ninja is proficient with that have both an expanded crit range AND a wooden structure. A Terbutje or Bardiche or Fauchard would work if the ninja was only proficient in them...


Amen and bump.


The Killing Moon


Finished Redshirts. Meh. About as appealing as a self-obsessed teenager and twice as snarky. All of Scalzi's characters are starting to sound identical to me.

Moving on to Imager by Modesitt.

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