New Skill Use for Intimidate:
My players in two separate groups have been doing this a lot lately it seems… trying to get certain opponents to attack them instead of other members of their party. Up 'til now, I've just on-the-spot made up a quick in the moment rule to facilitate such an attempt (or if it seemed a good move story-wise) since there isn't any rule in core that I know of. After some thought, and recently purchasing the APG, I think I have a good way of allowing this sort of thing in the future. Let me know what you think. I think it's bullet-proof for my tastes, (like curtailing the luring opponents into several AoOs or it affecting mindless creatures shenanigans) but several other opinions are better than just my own.
Intimidate option:
Taunt: You can use this skill to incite a creature that is already engaged in combat to attack you as a move action. The DC of this check is 10 + the target’s Hit Dice + the target’s Wisdom modifier. You can only taunt a target if it is within 30 feet and it can clearly see and hear you. A taunt is a mind-affecting effect. If the check succeeds, the target will attack you in preference to other targets for 1 round. This duration increases by 1 round for every 5 by which you beat the DC. If the target is attacked by another opponent, it’s compulsion to attack you ends and it is free to act as it desires.
Try Again: You can attempt to taunt a creature again, but each additional check increases the DC by +5. This increase resets after 1 hour has passed.
Special: When attempting a taunt you do not gain any sized-dependent bonus or penalty on your Intimidate check.
No need KenderKin. I looked through my 3.5 PHB and did not see it there, so it must be in a supplement, yes? Regardless, I don't think it ultimately matters whether it's part of the Intimidate or Bluff skill. I can see either working depending on how you look at it. But I'm interested in whether or not it can be abused in any way based upon how I wrote it.
FWIW, it is inspired by the Boasting Taunt rage power in the APG and Demoralize option of the Intimidate skill in the PRPG rulebook. Like I said, my players have been trying this lately, and I've decided that it would be a good house rule to add to my game. I'd hate to tell them that you could only taunt someone if you had the right class/feat to do it ;).
Alternatively, I could just allow the Boasting Taunt rage power to be available for use by anybody (minus the drunkeness feature).
The forcing the target to attack you in preference combined with the 30 foot range is my only concern.
Monster A is surrounded by 2 of my friends, I am 10 feet away. I taunt him, and he moves to me to attack triggering AoOs from both of my friends.
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Advice: It should be a standard action; Intimidate to demoralize is a standard action, and this is arguably more useful than that. If it's a class feature, feat, or in some other way is limited to a select group of characters, then it could potentially be a move action.
Feedback: Specifying exactly when the taunt loses its hold on the target is important here. If obeying the taunt and leaving the square would provoke two attacks of opportunity, do both trigger, or does just the first one? What about other dangers, such as a pit of lava or cliffside? If terrain features prevent the target from attacking the taunter, can the target do anything else? What about spellcasters? Are they forced to attack rather than cast a spell?
Opinion: I would see taunt more in the purview of Bluff or Perform before I'd see it in Intimidate.
Thanks for posting your thoughts. Addressing some comments:
The forcing the target to attack you in preference combined with the 30 foot range is my only concern.
Monster A is surrounded by 2 of my friends, I am 10 feet away. I taunt him, and he moves to me to attack triggering AoOs from both of my friends.
I'd thought about one AoO, but hadn't thought about 2 or more AoOs. A couple of points though. This doesn't bother me TOO much. My intent was that the target of the taunt, while being inclined to attack you in preference to others would do so in a manner that it sees fit. But it's not spelled out that way how I wrote it. Also, if the target is already engaged in melee with one or more opponents, if they take their AoOs, the effect of the taunt would immediately end, and the target would be allowed to act as it sees fit once again. I'm wondering though if it should simply not work if an opponent already threatens the target of the taunt.
Advice: It should be a standard action; Intimidate to demoralize is a standard action…
Noted. I think I agree.
Feedback: Specifying exactly when the taunt loses its hold on the target is important here. If obeying the taunt and leaving the square would provoke two attacks of opportunity, do both trigger, or does just the first one? What about other dangers, such as a pit of lava or cliffside? If terrain features prevent the target from attacking the taunter, can the target do anything else? What about spellcasters? Are they forced to attack rather than cast a spell?
I think the only issue that needs to be resolved here is if the target can't physically attack the target. In other words, both AoOs would happen simultaneously, but would ruin the effect of the taunt; a spell caster would attack by any means it could. There is no language saying that the target must move toward the taunter or make a melee attack for instance. For that matter, an archer would shoot at the target in preference to other opponents. Again, I'm thinking maybe it just shouldn't work on targets who are threatened by other opponents (they're just too occupied dealing with the immediate threat).
@ KenderKin: the kender version of taunt is interesting… thinking of writing a slightly different, more explicit version.
Ok, so here's a revision.
Intimidate option:
Taunt: You can use this skill to incite a creature with an attitude of hostile, to attack you as a standard action. The DC of this check is 10 + the target’s Hit Dice + the target’s Wisdom modifier. The target of the taunt must be within 30' and be able to clearly see and hear you. If the check succeeds, the target will endeavor to attack you in preference to other targets for 1 round in any fashion it is able to. If the target of your taunt is threatened by another creature, the DC increases by 10 (+2 for each additional threatening creature beyond the first). In addition, if the target is attacked by another opponent, before it is able to attack you, it’s compulsion to attack you ends and it is free to act as it desires. Attempting to taunt a creature that has no means of attacking you has no effect. This a language-dependent mind-affecting effect.
Try Again: You can attempt to taunt a creature again, but each additional check increases the DC by +5. This increase resets after 1 hour has passed.
Special: When attempting a taunt you do not gain any sized-dependent bonus or penalty on your Intimidate check.
Alternatively, this could be a Bluff check or Perform (oratory) check.
Thoughts? Better than the first or worse? On par with the Demoralize option?
Refining a little more. This is a watered down version of the Boasting Taunt rage power in the APG:
Taunt: You can use this skill to incite a creature with a hostile attitude to attack you by making an Intimidate check to demoralize (following all the rules for demoralizing a creature). If the check succeeds, the target becomes shaken for 1 round. You can maintain the taunt in subsequent rounds as a standard action, but its effect ends if the target makes a melee attack against you or if it cannot clearly see and hear you. This is a language-dependent mind-affecting effect, and relies on audible components.
Try Again: You can attempt to taunt a creature again, but each additional check increases the DC by +5. This increase resets after 1 hour has passed.
Special: When attempting a taunt you do not gain any sized-dependent bonus or penalty on your Intimidate check.
I'll be honest and say that I don't like the kind of non-magical domination-like abilities that taunts commonly belong to, so maybe this idea isn't for you. I understand the why they're nice in a mechanical way, and I certainly understand the fluff behind taunting your enemy so he attacks you instead of anyone else. It just feels wrong to actually control your enemy, and I'd generally find it irritating if my DM did this to me, especially if I for example was hurt and trying to run away.
I know that many people feel like me on this, while others have no problem with it. I suggest changing the mechanic slightly to make it more plausible to all people:
Instead of forcing the tauntee (fun word) to attack the taunter, make the ability cause a major penalty to attack rolls against other characters. The tauntee is so distracted from the taunts that even if he can control his own will, he can't focus on the task ahead.
I'd say, let a successful taunt cause a penalty to attack rolls equal to the number by which it failed. Cause all spells and spell-like abilities to require a concentration check with a DC equal to 10 + amount of taunt success + spell level. The penalties are so severe there's a really good incitament for attacking the taunter instead of someone else, but you don't get into that whole brain-control thingy.
I'll be honest and say that I don't like the kind of non-magical domination-like abilities that taunts commonly belong to, so maybe this idea isn't for you. I understand the why they're nice in a mechanical way, and I certainly understand the fluff behind taunting your enemy so he attacks you instead of anyone else. It just feels wrong to actually control your enemy, and I'd generally find it irritating if my DM did this to me, especially if I for example was hurt and trying to run away.
I know that many people feel like me on this, while others have no problem with it. I suggest changing the mechanic slightly to make it more plausible to all people:
Instead of forcing the tauntee (fun word) to attack the taunter, make the ability cause a major penalty to attack rolls against other characters. The tauntee is so distracted from the taunts that even if he can control his own will, he can't focus on the task ahead.I'd say, let a successful taunt cause a penalty to attack rolls equal to the number by which it failed. Cause all spells and spell-like abilities to require a concentration check with a DC equal to 10 + amount of taunt success + spell level. The penalties are so severe there's a really good incitament for attacking the taunter instead of someone else, but you don't get into that whole brain-control thingy.
I agree! See my previous post. A successful taunt in my last iteration does not force the victim to do anything it doesn't want to, but it it will gain the shaken condition for as long as they are successfully taunted. Two really simple ways to end the taunt: 1) attack the taunter with a melee attack (you don't even need to succeed on the melee attack) or 2) run away, hide behind something or otherwise render a condition where the taunter cannot make himself visible and clearly heard if he tries to maintain the taunt in a subsequent round. Maintaining the taunt requires using a standard action each round, so the taunter can't abuse it ("all bark and no bite").
Scenario 1
A bard with the taunt ability is standing 20 feet away.
The enemy is in between the fighter and rogue with combat reflexes.
Bard taunts as a move action, then readies an action to taunt when the enemy stops moving.
Enemy moves to the bard, gets attack twice, taunt gets broken, monster ends their move turns to attack the rogue, bard taunts again, monster moves again, provokes again.
Net effect, 2 AoOs for the fighter, 2 AoOs for the rogue, the bard stands their singing, and the enemy burns 2 move actions to do nothing.
Scenario 2:
Any character with a really high movement rate. Stand 30 foot away, taunts, then move away. Creature double moves to catch you, but cannot. You friends pepper it with ranged attacks, then you taunt and move away again.
Scenario 1
A bard with the taunt ability is standing 20 feet away.
The enemy is in between the fighter and rogue with combat reflexes.Bard taunts as a move action, then readies an action to taunt when the enemy stops moving.
Enemy moves to the bard, gets attack twice, taunt gets broken, monster ends their move turns to attack the rogue, bard taunts again, monster moves again, provokes again.
Net effect, 2 AoOs for the fighter, 2 AoOs for the rogue, the bard stands their singing, and the enemy burns 2 move actions to do nothing.
Scenario 2:
Any character with a really high movement rate. Stand 30 foot away, taunts, then move away. Creature double moves to catch you, but cannot. You friends pepper it with ranged attacks, then you taunt and move away again.
These scenarios aren't applicable in my latest revision because:
1) The taunted target is under no obligation to pursue the taunter. The effect causes the target to gain the shaken condition (just like standard demoralize). The target can remove the condition be making an attack (of any sort) against you OR by running away, hiding, casting silence, and so on.
2) Subsequent taunts become increasingly difficult to pull off.
3) A taunt requires a standard action to initiate and once established, requires a standard action each round to maintain.
Re-posting my latest iteration…
Taunt: You can use this skill to incite a creature with a hostile attitude to attack you by making an Intimidate check to demoralize (following all the rules for demoralizing a creature). If the check succeeds, the target becomes shaken for 1 round. You can maintain the taunt in subsequent rounds as a standard action, but its effect ends if the target makes an attack against you or if it cannot clearly see and hear you. This is a language-dependent mind-affecting effect, and relies on audible components.
Try Again: You can attempt to taunt a creature again, but each additional check increases the DC by +5. This increase resets after 1 hour has passed.
Special: When attempting a taunt you do not gain any sized-dependent bonus or penalty on your Intimidate check.
Edit: Hmm, I did list "melee" attack, but didn't intend to. Fixed.
I would have to agree with the latest version except for 2 things, one make it so it could be visual, but a purely visual one would be harder due to the surrounding confusion of the battle; the fact is a bugbear barbarian is going to get pissed at a fighter making faces at him, and flapping his wings like a chicken, provided he can see the fighter, even if he can barely speak his own language, let alone common. Also, I would add a bonus to the taunter based on any damage he has already done to the target.
As far as intelligent creatures and taunting in general is concerned, just like most PC's will occasionally get hit, and just go off on an opponent, irregardless of their usual tactics, it only makes sense that occasionally even the most intelligent npc will have the right button hit that causes them to just whale on a single individual for no real apparent reason other than pure random malice.
I think Intimidate is actually a very good skill to use for this, since most people's reaction to intimidation, if it is successful, tend to be fight or flight. Most of the uses in the book emphasis the flight (or similar demoralizing aspects); having a character deliberately attempt to trigger the fight mechanism in an individual isn't particularly that much harder.
I would have to agree with the latest version except for 2 things, one make it so it could be visual, but a purely visual one would be harder due to the surrounding confusion of the battle; the fact is a bugbear barbarian is going to get pissed at a fighter making faces at him, and flapping his wings like a chicken, provided he can see the fighter, even if he can barely speak his own language, let alone common. Also, I would add a bonus to the taunter based on any damage he has already done to the target.
As far as intelligent creatures and taunting in general is concerned, just like most PC's will occasionally get hit, and just go off on an opponent, irregardless of their usual tactics, it only makes sense that occasionally even the most intelligent npc will have the right button hit that causes them to just whale on a single individual for no real apparent reason other than pure random malice.
I think Intimidate is actually a very good skill to use for this, since most people's reaction to intimidation, if it is successful, tend to be fight or flight. Most of the uses in the book emphasis the flight (or similar demoralizing aspects); having a character deliberately attempt to trigger the fight mechanism in an individual isn't particularly that much harder.
Hmm, interesting. Maybe an idea to apply to language barriers? I'll have to think about working it in, but I don't want it to get too complicated.
As for the intelligence thing, I think it's important to keep the mind-affecting language in so it doesn't affect mindless opponents (oozes, golems, certain undead, swarms, and such). Maybe it's also harder to taunt animals of animal intelligence as well.
Forgot to add in Perform (oratory) as an optional check.
BTW, thanks to everyone who has given their advice. It's definitely a help.