For those who have read the books, what age audience are these books directed towards?
In other words, are these on par with the D&D novels (teen+) or, say, George R. R. Martin (18+)? Or do they vary?
|
For those who have read the books, what age audience are these books directed towards?
In other words, are these on par with the D&D novels (teen+) or, say, George R. R. Martin (18+)? Or do they vary?
They vary slightly. I havn't read anything I wouldn't pass onto my 14 year old brother though (I have the last two books unfinished, but neither one seems gritty enough to be considered 18+)
None of our books are (or ever will be) as naughty as GRRM's Game of Thrones. That said, Pathfinder Tales are definitely not YA fiction. Each book is different--the Worldwound Gambit has probably the most overtly sexual scene (though it's still not heaving bosoms and thrusting manhoods). Plague of Shadows, on the other hand, doesn't really have any sexuality beyond a PG rating.
As a general rule, I can say that you may see some swearing (though no F-bombs), some sexual content (though allusions rather than graphic descriptions), some mature treatment of moral and social issues, and a whole lot of violence.
Overall, though, none of our books are any naughtier than, say, Mass Effect. If you let your kid play adult video games, these should be fine.
Thanks!
I don't even know how to classify whether books are age-appropriate.
I've only read Prince of Wolves and Winter Witch. There's one scene in Prince of Wolves that made me say "they went there?" but it wasn't any worse than what I was reading in junior high. (Of course I read a lot of Stephen King and Anne Rice in junior high too.)
Well, for what it's worth I'm interested in if the books will appeal to me (age 40-ish), not my kids. :)
Well, for what it's worth I'm interested in if the books will appeal to me (age 40-ish), not my kids. :)
I'm also interested in the answer.
I'm thinking of buying one (or more)of the Tales but I have horrible memories of some D&D novels :oP.S. : Btw, anyone knows how good (or bad) is the french translation ? Buying the translation would help the local game store but .. well I also have bad memories of translations when I was young(er)... :D
Well, for what it's worth I'm interested in if the books will appeal to me (age 40-ish), not my kids. :)I'm also interested in the answer.
I'm thinking of buying one (or more)of the Tales but I have horrible memories of some D&D novels :oP.S. : Btw, anyone knows how good (or bad) is the french translation ? Buying the translation would help the local game store but .. well I also have bad memories of translations when I was young(er)... :D
Like James said, Worldwound Gambit is the only one I've seen so far that would be questionable due to its overt sexual nature. All of them are fairly violent, but if you did not expect this...
I can't help you with French translation. Although, I am still looking for cheap or free (but good) translations of Dumas' for my Kindle.
Well, for what it's worth I'm interested in if the books will appeal to me (age 40-ish), not my kids. :)
In college, I was an English major, so I'm pretty harsh on judging books. That being said, while these books aren't written on the super intellectual side, they are enjoyable. Prince of Wolves is great once you get past the first few chapters (setup chapters tend to drag on in a majority of fantasy novels). Winter Witch was definitely not my favorite, but that's probably because I wasn't the audience it was aimed at. Prince of Wolves was far more enjoyable to me, and definitely worth a read.
In college, I was an English major, so I'm pretty harsh on judging books. That being said, while these books aren't written on the super intellectual side, they are enjoyable. Prince of Wolves is great once you get past the first few chapters (setup chapters tend to drag on in a majority of fantasy novels). Winter Witch was definitely not my favorite, but that's probably because I wasn't the audience it was aimed at. Prince of Wolves was far more enjoyable to me, and definitely worth a read.
Thanks for the reviews, Pickguy! I'm curious to see what you'll think of some of the newer novels, as I think we continue to play pretty fast and loose with styles in an effort to see what folks like best.
Also, a reminder to everyone that tonight at 6:00pm PST is the Pathfinder Tales author chat at http://chat.dmtools.org/ -- come stop by and say hi!
First, I apologize for the length of this post.
Pathfinder Tales are my favorite product from Paizo and I have everything that has come out so far. There is some variation in age appropriateness of each book. Overall, I would say that they are teen level. I would have read them in high school. I am 32 and have immensely enjoyed each book. Here are my thoughts on each book so far:
Prince of Wolves: Written by "fan favorite" Dave Gross, you are introduced to a half elf Pathfinder and his Teifling bodyguard. The book takes place in Ustalav, the Gothic Horror setting of Golarion. As you might guess, werewolves feature fairly prominently in the story. There is nothing in this book that you won't find in any of the Pathfinder rule books or adventures. I would rate this as a Teen+ book, but still enjoyable by adults.
Winter Witch: This book was also pretty PG (though with some gross/violent scenes). I would not think twice about giving it to a Jr. High reader. This book has a very strong female lead and a clueless male lead. There is definitely a "Coming of Age" theme to the book. I recall being impressed with how magic was described in the book. It was a fun read, but not the strongest of the Pathfinder Tales.
Plague of Shadows: This has been my favorite book of the series so far, also probably the most PG of all the series, though Winter Witch was a close second. This book was a fun quest. As I read it, I felt like I was running through an adventure. There are some mature themes in it (racism, love/loss, views on sexual actvity by one of the characters), but nothing that you wouldn't find in any novel read in a Jr High/High School English class. Also has a very strong female lead.
The Worldwound Gambit: This is the most mature of the Tales thus far. It has been described as Ocean's Eleven in the Abyss, and this is an accurate description. I would add that there are distinct moments that are reminiscient of Aliens; just a bunch of gross demon-ey moments. It does have the most sexually explicit scene of the Tales so far, but not enough that I would toss it (for reference, I stopped reading Song of Ice and Fire because I was annoyed at how sexually explicit it was getting). The biggest complaint from reviewers on this book is that it is written in first person. I felt that this enhanced the story, but many found it distracting.
Master of Devils: The sequel to Prince of Wolves takes place in Tian-Xa (think a fantasy China setting). This book is heavily influenced by Chinese cinema, so you have monks that fly (like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon) and weapons that act impossibly (at one point cloth is used as a weapon). Fights (lots of these) are described very cinematically.
Overall, in the Tales, you find find anything that would not be in a PG-13 film (Woundwound Gambit skirts toward R without actually getting there). If someone is mature enough to watch Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, they are mature enough to read the Pathfinder Tales. Most are a sort of action adventure genre. Worldwound Gambit could be placed in the horror genre, sort of.
This is the first time I have really written out my thoughts about each of the Tales. I hope that it helps you with your consideration. If you are thinking about testing the waters, I would recommend purchasing Plague of Shadows or Prince of Wolves. If I could hazard a guess, James Sutter might recommend that you start with Death's Heretic...
Thanks Itchy! I just wanted to point out, though, that Worldwound Gambit actually isn't first-person, but rather third-person in *present tense*, which is the thing some folks have objected to.
|
Ah! No! Sex! Panic!
Pathfinder Tales feature huge amounts of extreme violence.
However, very little is gratuitous.
Probably the worst criticism you might make, in terms of negatively influencing young people, is that much of the violence is rather casual and the terrible impact of violence in the real world is sidelined by the 'fantasy monster' nature of the victims.
Let's be genuinely mature about this stuff: I would rather have a 14 year old read a book with a mature, sophisticated take on loving relationships, like The Rainbow, than have them reading/watching Saw-like gratuitous violence (Pathfinder Tales has neither of these things, incidentally).
Society: brokken and in need of extensive errata...
Prince of Wolves: Written by "fan favorite" Dave Gross, you are introduced to a half elf Pathfinder and his Teifling bodyguard. The book takes place in Ustalav, the Gothic Horror setting of Golarion. As you might guess, werewolves feature fairly prominently in the story. There is nothing in this book that you won't find in any of the Pathfinder rule books or adventures. I would rate this as a Teen+ book, but still enjoyable by adults.
There was one scene in Prince of Wolves that would get it an R-rating if it were a picture, but I don't want to spoil it for those who haven't read the book.
Some other scenes involved pretty graphic violence, but how violent a book is often comes down to reader imagination.
What has been said about Worldwound Gambit makes me want to read it more. I'll probably read Master of Devils next though, because I really did like Prince of Wolves. (I'm collecting a large back-catalog of books I want to read right now though.)
There was one scene in Prince of Wolves that would get it an R-rating if it were a picture, but I don't want to spoil it for those who haven't read the book.
What has been said about Worldwound Gambit makes me want to read it more. I'll probably read Master of Devils next though, because I really did like Prince of Wolves. (I'm collecting a large back-catalog of books I want to read right now though.)
You are correct, I forgot about that scene! I, alas, have an imperfect memory.
Worldwound Gambit was very good. Placing the novels in order of those I like the best to worst, Worldwound Gambit is second to Plague of Shadows.
GeraintElberion, I was lambasted on another online forum (different website, sci-fi forum) for a similar statement about Song of Ice and Fire. It's just my personal opinion, though if I get an e-reader, I may go back and try reading them again (the books are too large to read while walking to/from work). Though, I will probably wait until he's done with the series.
Society: brokken and in need of extensive errata...
Agreed! :D
I may go back and try reading them again (the books are too large to read while walking to/from work). Though, I will probably wait until he's done with the series.
I have so many fears that this may never happen, though I pray it does! The series has much more gratuitous sexual content in it than I appreciate, as well, but Martin's writing is phenomenal with character development that is second to none. It is a great series.
As to the conversation at hand: I find it interesting that my opinion (I bold this because Itchy's opinion is just as valid as mine, of course!) is pretty much opposite of Itchy's! Worldwound Gambit and Plague of Shadows were probably my least favorite books in this series thus far. Neither had characters in them that I found engrossing, or even likeable (in the case of the former book). Mind you the stories were very good, though the present tense writing in Gambit I thought more gimmicky than anything else and incredibly unnecessary. ;)
My favorites are the two books written by Mr. Gross, whom I believe has the best writing style of any of the authors (with exception to Mr. Sutter, whom I haven't read yet), and his characters are the most involved and play beautifully off one another. Mr. Gross weaves a fantastic tale and managed to engross me with Master of Devils despite my lack of appreciation for the Asian cinematic style (I hate wires!).
That said, I will go on record as saying there has been no one book in the Pathfinder Tales selections that I disliked. I would suggest any of them for a fun way to pass a little time, though I'd recommend Dave Gross if you're looking for the best of the lot! =D
Contributor
|
As to the conversation at hand: I find it interesting that my opinion (I bold this because Itchy's opinion is just as valid as mine, of course!) is pretty much opposite of Itchy's!It's great to see that each book in the Pathfinder Tales line has its champions. You know the variety is working when every volume is someone else's favorite.
There are some keen remarks throughout this thread, and Itchy has darned near reviewed the series in a single post. If you have a few moments this weekend, please consider posting reviews of your favorite novels, web stories, and Pathfinder Journal novellas.
Especially in the case of the Journals, there hasn't been nearly enough feedback from readers for readers who haven't already bought the Adventure Paths to get a sense of which ones they'd like to try in ePub format. There's about two-and-a-half more novels' worth of fiction in those Journals!
I have so many fears that this may never happen, though I pray it does! The series has much more gratuitous sexual content in it than I appreciate, as well, but Martin's writing is phenomenal with character development that is second to none. It is a great series.
That said, I will go on record as saying there has been no one book in the Pathfinder Tales selections that I disliked. I would suggest any of them for a fun way to pass a little time, though I'd recommend Dave Gross if you're looking for the best of the lot! =D
I agree. There is not a book in the series that I would not loan out to a friend (and I have loaned them out).
I remember George RR Martin's characters and plots being very well written and that is why I am considering going back and rereading them.
I know that I need to get out and write reviews for all the Tales. I just need to get my backside in gear and do it! Maybe I'll set a goal to write one a week until I run out of books or Serpent's Song comes out (whichever comes first).
Itchy has darned near reviewed the series in a single post. If you have a few moments this weekend, please consider posting reviews of your favorite novels, web stories, and Pathfinder Journal novellas.
Especially in the case of the Journals, there hasn't been nearly enough feedback from readers for readers who haven't already bought the Adventure Paths to get a sense of which ones they'd like to try in ePub format. There's about two-and-a-half more novels' worth of fiction in those Journals!
Dave Gross inspired me to use my above post as a base and get my reviews posted for each of these books. Thanks Dave!! Posted in Amazon and Paizo!
-Aaron
Hey Itchy, I'm publishing some fiction for my Shadowsfall books. If you would like a review copy, please send me an email at
I would be honored! Email sent.
-Aaron
*whirrrrrrrr, blerp, blerp, blerp, click, click*
Negative, Dave Gross (Contributor).
...
...
AWAITING INPUT...
...