There are probably a lot of people who could get started on this and hardly stop. There are certain questions that I think often get raised:
1) Why is Ben on Tatooine so much older (about 70) compared to his age at the end of Episode 3? You've already hit on this one.
2) How does the Empire consolidate with quite so huge a navy (you know, all those massive capital ships like the star destroyers) in only 19-22 years or so? In a similar vein, it takes about 22 years to make the first Death Star and bring it to operational condition. It seems to take only 4 for the second (though, in truth it's structure is still skeletal). How long does it take to make stuff in the Star Wars Universe anyway? Why do some things take a decade or more but others are extremely fast?
3) Darth Vader is said to have helped hunt down and kill the Jedi in Episode 4, but most of that work is done by the clone troopers. Vader mostly just butches off Jedi in the temple, particularly the kids, as far as we can tell. So are we to assume that a whole bunch of Jedi actually did survive and Vader did help hunt them down?
4) In Episode 6, Luke asks Leia about what she remembers of her mother. Having learned they are twins, it's clear that Luke is fishing for info about his own mother. And Leia remembers her. But in Episode 3, we learn that her mother died in childbirth. The poignant scene between Luke and Leia changes character because now it means that Leia is remembering her adopted mother and not their shared mother.
Oh, what the heck, I'll add one more thing.
In Episode 4, when the subject of Luke's father comes up between Obi-Wan and Luke, we get the impression that Owen doesn't approve of his brother's involvement with the old wizard. In Episode 5, we learn that Owen and Anakin are hardly related and, in fact, really don't know jack or squat about each other. The relationship between Anakin and Owen and Owen's understanding of any relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan are tangential at best.
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Everything you need to know about the prequels you can learn from this link.
3. Obi-Wan Kenobi’s apparent age: I’m not judging whether or not Ewan McGregor was the right choice to play young Obi-Wan but I would have figured, that based on Obi-Wan’s apparent age in Episodes IV – VI, the younger Obi-Wan would have appeared a bit older. Then again, maybe that dry desert heat dried him out and made him look older than he actually was…
Ok, I actually did some puzzling around with Kenobi's age, and it's not that far off, assuming some suspension of disbelief... These are my calculations, it just happens to coincide with the canon.
In episode I, Ben is supposed to be roughly 20-25 (a young, eager padawan, on the cusp of being a jedi). We'll use 22 as the base assumption, and the older he gets, the more reasonable it is.
Episode II happens ten years later, roughly. So, he's a 32 year old jedi/jedi master.
Then, Episode III happens five years after that, making him 37 when the Empire happened. Then, nineteen to twenty years later, Episode 4 happens. He's 57. Alec Guinness, at the time of the filming of Episode 4, was roughly 61-62 (I'm not sure how long it took to film). Four years is not a huge age discrepancy when the character has been hounded and living in the middle of a hostile desert for twenty years.
So the age was about right... Ewan McGregor, around the time of Episode III filming was approximately 30, but trying to play a little older.
As for the Empire's massive navy, during the Clone Wars, the entire galaxy became a war machine, and much of the industry was nationalized (part of the goal). The Empire simply took the infrastructure in place and continued expanding. In a matter of five years or so, they went from no navy to hundreds or thousands of massive proto-star destroyers. Don't forget that the conquered factories of the separatists could be turned to build equipment for the imperial war machine. Why? There wasn't another enemy to fight! Oh, wait, those darned internal enemies...those terrorists (rebels).
The first Death Star was a research work in progress, probably requiring refits, repairs and redesigns, not to mention flawed labor schedules (that's what you get for using slave labor). The second Death Star was built more efficiently, with replicating droids, according to wookieepedia.
I'll disagree with this one. At one point in episode 4 Beru tells Owen that he can't keep Luke there forever. All of his friends have already gone. He just has too much of his father in him.
Owen's response "That's what I'm afraid of." takes on a much more ominous tone when you have the additional information of the prequels.
Personally, I think there's a lot more of an ominous overtone if Luke's father is the one who hunted down and murdered the Jedi than what Owen and Beru know of Anakin. As I said, the prequels hardly give anyone the impression that Owen and Beru know anything significant about Anakin other than he killed a bunch of sandpeople. But, imply that Owen grew up with Anakin and knew him a lot better... and what he became... as the original movies did, and then you've really got something.
Personally, I think there's a lot more of an ominous overtone if Luke's father is the one who hunted down and murdered the Jedi than what Owen and Beru know of Anakin. As I said, the prequels hardly give anyone the impression that Owen and Beru know anything significant about Anakin other than he killed a bunch of sandpeople. But, imply that Owen grew up with Anakin and knew him a lot better... and what he became... as the original movies did, and then you've really got something.
Well, according to the EU, Vader did hunt down and kill the jedi in hiding (those that survived the initial purge). That was his job, and he did it very well.
Plus, his actions were probably glorified in the media (hunting down those traitorous jedi, all to protect the safety and security of the empire and its citizens). Those that knew the truth behind who and what he was (read: Owen Lars) could probably read between the lines.
Now, what might be considered a much bigger plot hole is the fact that Obi Wan gave Luke to LUKE and ANAKIN's RELATIVES, on his homeworld. Out of all the millions of billions of beings in the galaxy, he gave them to some of the few people that Anakin knew personally and that were related to him. If it's not 'it's so stupid, he'll never think we did it', I don't know what is. Not to mention that Obi Wan continues to wear jedi robes, all while living NEAR those relatives.
Ahem. There is some justification in that the jedi robes were supposed to be humble clothing, and that they wouldn't be uncommon for non-jedi to wear them, but that doesn't bear out very well. Plus, I would think that folks would be clawing at each other to not dress like jedi during the time of the emperor.
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Also remember, there's a large gap between III and IV. Luke and Leia are born at the end of III, and much older at the start of IV. During this time Vader did hunt down Jedi... however over time Vader is aging as well. While kept alive by his suit he is still an old man... which is probably why we see him taking more of a back seat then he did when he was younger.
The old Republic is not the Republic from I-III. The old Republic is another time period before the start of I. Kenobi's reference to 1000 generations could have been an old man exagerating as well.
The empire also replaced the Republic... so coming up with all those ships isn't a strech. The Empire had all the resources that the Republic had. Seeing Palpatine had the clone created in secret... it's not hard to picture that he also had orders for ships as well. As for the Death Star it's clear in III - IV that the Death Star is a secret project. The senate is finial disbanded in IV, and Palpatine is careful not to move too quickly too fast. Once the first Death Star is unleashed, Palpatine's second Death Star is only hidden from the Rebels.
As far as Leia goes, remember she's later trained as a jedi... which means she was force sensative. After seeing all the other things, it's not hard to grasp that Leia's force sensativity alowed her to remember her mother, even though she was a baby. It's probably one of the farthest stretches... but does make sense.
Personally, I think there's a lot more of an ominous overtone if Luke's father is the one who hunted down and murdered the Jedi than what Owen and Beru know of Anakin. As I said, the prequels hardly give anyone the impression that Owen and Beru know anything significant about Anakin other than he killed a bunch of sandpeople. But, imply that Owen grew up with Anakin and knew him a lot better... and what he became... as the original movies did, and then you've really got something.I'll disagree with this one. At one point in episode 4 Beru tells Owen that he can't keep Luke there forever. All of his friends have already gone. He just has too much of his father in him.
Owen's response "That's what I'm afraid of." takes on a much more ominous tone when you have the additional information of the prequels.
Not to mention that there's no reason for Owen to suspect that Anakin, the whiny, petulant man-child who was left for dead after his battle with Obi-Wan, is the same person as Darth Vader, 7 foot tall cybernetic Sith Lord. I doubt they had much time to chat after the transformation.
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Now, what might be considered a much bigger plot hole is the fact that Obi Wan gave Luke to LUKE and ANAKIN's RELATIVES, on his homeworld. Out of all the millions of billions of beings in the galaxy, he gave them to some of the few people that Anakin knew personally and that were related to him. If it's not 'it's so stupid, he'll never think we did it', I don't know what is. Not to mention that Obi Wan continues to wear jedi robes, all while living NEAR those relatives.
Ahem. There is some justification in that the jedi robes were supposed to be humble clothing, and that they wouldn't be uncommon for non-jedi to wear them, but that doesn't bear out very well. Plus, I would think that folks would be clawing at each other to not dress like jedi during the time of the emperor.
Keep in mind that Anakin... while being Darth Vader and a powerful Sith... is still Anakin... The death of Anakin's mother is one of the greatest events that pushed Anakin towards the dark side. I would believe that Anakin would find himself emotionally torn when thinking about his mother. Because this would be viewed as a weakness, I'm sure Vader avoided the desert planet as all costs. "Hiding" Luke with Owen, Obi-wan counted that this would be the last place Vader would want to look. Remember Anakin was told his wife died in child birth... never told his baby (in fact twin... but a fact he might not have know) survived. If you think about Anakin, involving anything with his mother or Padme... you can't really say he thought rationally about any of it.
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Keep in mind that Anakin... while being Darth Vader and a powerful Sith... is still Anakin... The death of Anakin's mother is one of the greatest events that pushed Anakin towards the dark side. I would believe that Anakin would find himself emotionally torn when thinking about his mother. Because this would be viewed as a weakness, I'm sure Vader avoided the desert planet as all costs. "Hiding" Luke with Owen, Obi-wan counted that this would be the last place Vader would want to look. Remember Anakin was told his wife died in child birth... never told his baby (in fact twin... but a fact he might not have know) survived. If you think about Anakin, involving anything with his mother or Padme... you can't really say he thought rationally about any of it.
OTOH, there's no indication from Vader at the beginning of IV* that Tatooine is anyplace special, even though a leading Rebel spy was trying to get there with the Sooper Seekrit Death Star plans.
(OTOOH, Vader doesn't go down to the planet's surface after the droids himself, which is at least consistent with him having head issues with going home again.)
*It's still hard for me to think of Episode IV as anything but Star Wars, but then I'm old.
Ben tells Luke in ep5 that Yoda was the Jedi who trained him but in ep1 it was Qui-Gon who trained Ben.
Ep4 - Ben tells Luke the force is an energy field that permeates all things but in ep1 Qui-Gon tells Anakin the force is created by microscopic bacteria that lives in living things.
Ep4 Ben tells Luke that when he met his father he was already a great pilot but in ep1 Anakin is a slave and has never been inside a starship or a plane.
That's the big 3 that I can think of.
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Ben tells Luke in ep5 that Yoda was the Jedi who trained him but in ep1 it was Qui-Gon who trained Ben.
Ep4 - Ben tells Luke the force is an energy field that permeates all things but in ep1 Qui-Gon tells Anakin the force is created by microscopic bacteria that lives in living things.
Ep4 Ben tells Luke that when he met his father he was already a great pilot but in ep1 Anakin is a slave and has never been inside a starship or a plane.
That's the big 3 that I can think of.
1st point:
While Qui-Gon was the Master who trained Owi-wan as a Padawan.. we also see that Yoda trained Younglings (and seeing Yoda's age, it's not hard to think Yoda taught Obi-wan as a youngling) Also, if you think of Qui-Gon as the teacher, Yoda was a principal. Seeing most jedi are dead when "Ben" says this.. it's not really a stretch.
2nd point:
Ben is trying to explain something as complex as the force to a naiive Luke... Also remember, that mitocondra could be producing that energy field.
3rd point:
Anakin is a slave and child... but wins the pod race (something humans are supposed to react too slow to do)... that's a great pilot to me. Granted he wasn't a starfighter pilot yet... but he was great when Obi-Wan met him.
Ben tells Luke in ep5 that Yoda was the Jedi who trained him but in ep1 it was Qui-Gon who trained Ben.
Ep4 - Ben tells Luke the force is an energy field that permeates all things but in ep1 Qui-Gon tells Anakin the force is created by microscopic bacteria that lives in living things.
Ep4 Ben tells Luke that when he met his father he was already a great pilot but in ep1 Anakin is a slave and has never been inside a starship or a plane.
That's the big 3 that I can think of.
1st point:
While Qui-Gon was the Master who trained Owi-wan as a Padawan.. we also see that Yoda trained Younglings (and seeing Yoda's age, it's not hard to think Yoda taught Obi-wan as a youngling) Also, if you think of Qui-Gon as the teacher, Yoda was a principal. Seeing most jedi are dead when "Ben" says this.. it's not really a stretch.
2nd point:
Ben is trying to explain something as complex as the force to a naiive Luke... Also remember, that mitocondra could be producing that energy field.
3rd point:
Anakin is a slave and child... but wins the pod race (something humans are supposed to react too slow to do)... that's a great pilot to me. Granted he wasn't a starfighter pilot yet... but he was great when Obi-Wan met him.
And if you skew it just right the deathstar looks like a burito.
You're taking the most liberal interpatations of the retcons to make them fit.|
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And if you skew it just right the deathstar looks like a burito.
You're taking the most liberal interpatations of the retcons to make them fit.
Well, I'm just saying you can explain each thing... is it perfect.. no. If they did I-VI in order it would flow better... but they didn't. While you have to stretch some of these things, none of the things listed so far are clear contriditions.
I've always liked that Yoda thinks Anakin is too old to be trained as a Jedi when he's 8 or 9, but is okay training Luke, who's in his 20s.
The situation is completely different. Though Yoda protests that Luke is too old, he relents easily. He has no choice. When Anakin comes forward and is too old, the Jedi still have plenty of other younglings running around. He's no last hope like Luke pretty much is.
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I've always liked that Yoda thinks Anakin is too old to be trained as a Jedi when he's 8 or 9, but is okay training Luke, who's in his 20s.The situation is completely different. Though Yoda protests that Luke is too old, he relents easily. He has no choice. When Anakin comes forward and is too old, the Jedi still have plenty of other younglings running around. He's no last hope like Luke pretty much is.
Yeah...I still think that's dumb.
Just a couple of extra thoughts for people here, though not specifically on the continuity of the films.
Back in the day, when the original movie was released, George Lucas said in interviews that his plans were to do three sets of trilogies, with the trilogy that never happened set after the original one. I no longer remember if it was to involve older versions of the original characters or their children, or both. Anyway, he had all his plot ideas in place way back then for all the movies, but things change over time, especially with the amount of time that passed between the two trilogies that were made.
And on the overall continuity theme, remember that basically all the published novels and short stories, plus the storylines of the Knights of the Old Republic games, and maybe the plots of other games as well, are considered canon and part of the official continuity of the Star Wars universe. So I am sure that if you start with the most recent official material, probably the storyline for the new Old Republic MMO, and work your way backwards through all the releases, that you will find plenty of contradictions or changes that have happened since 1977.
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Anyway, he had all his plot ideas in place way back then for all the movies, but things change over time, especially with the amount of time that passed between the two trilogies that were made.
BULL! And we have proof from Lucas' own hand!
While Qui-Gon was the Master who trained Owi-wan as a Padawan.. we also see that Yoda trained Younglings (and seeing Yoda's age, it's not hard to think Yoda taught Obi-wan as a youngling) Also, if you think of Qui-Gon as the teacher, Yoda was a principal. Seeing most jedi are dead when "Ben" says this.. it's not really a stretch.
Erg...I said I wasn't going to be drawn back into this discussion, but this particular comment gave me a tic.
Let's say you were a marine biologist. You're doing an interview and one of the questions is "Who do you consider to be your mentor?" Would you be more likely to answer with the name of the professor that guided you when you were writing your doctoral dissertation, or would you pop up with the name of Mr. Nelson, your 7th grade biology teacher?
That would be like Luke being asked who trained him and answering "Obi-Wan Kenobi" without giving any mention at all of Yoda.
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While Qui-Gon was the Master who trained Owi-wan as a Padawan.. we also see that Yoda trained Younglings (and seeing Yoda's age, it's not hard to think Yoda taught Obi-wan as a youngling) Also, if you think of Qui-Gon as the teacher, Yoda was a principal. Seeing most jedi are dead when "Ben" says this.. it's not really a stretch.Erg...I said I wasn't going to be drawn back into this discussion, but this particular comment gave me a tic.
Let's say you were a marine biologist. You're doing an interview and one of the questions is "Who do you consider to be your mentor?" Would you be more likely to answer with the name of the professor that guided you when you were writing your doctoral dissertation, or would you pop up with the name of Mr. Nelson, your 7th grade biology teacher?
That would be like Luke being asked who trained him and answering "Obi-Wan Kenobi" without giving any mention at all of Yoda.
But Obi-Wan wasn't asked who was it that trained him. He was telling Luke to seek out Yoda. Obi-Wan was vouching for Yoda, by telling Luke that he trained him. Now he wasn't the only one who trained him... and obviously not the largest contributor to his training, but he was the only one alive...
I've had a number of musical teachers through out my life. If someone asked me specificlly about any one of them I would refer to that person as my teacher.
Also Qui-Gon died in I... Yoda could have taken on a mentoring type roll to Obi-Wan "off-camera". At the end of III Yoda offers Obi-Wan more "training" before they part.
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Now, what might be considered a much bigger plot hole is the fact that Obi Wan gave Luke to LUKE and ANAKIN's RELATIVES, on his homeworld. Out of all the millions of billions of beings in the galaxy, he gave them to some of the few people that Anakin knew personally and that were related to him. If it's not 'it's so stupid, he'll never think we did it', I don't know what is. Not to mention that Obi Wan continues to wear jedi robes, all while living NEAR those relatives.
I, Jedi touches on this in a way I found funny (along with ripping apart huge chunks of Kevin Anderson's Novels, but that's public service). Corran suggests that Luke becoming a Jedi knight and taking out the emperor was plan B. Plan A was Luke, using the Skywalker name and applying to the imperial academy was an elaborate trap. 'Skywalker' pings in the Imperial Google, Vader goes to check out who this upstart kid is on his home planet. He arrives, sees his step-brother. Obi-Won ambushes him, they fight. If Obi-Won wins, Vader goes boom in an explosion of Dark Side energies on a desolate planet, as opposed to say, downtown Courscant. He wasn't hidden, he was bait.
Luke is reduced to bleating 'that can't be true, Ben wouldn't do that!' When Corran says "It could be true, from a certain point of view."
When you look at the Republic Jedi from the prequils, willing to lie, use mind control, ("You will take Republic Credits") cheat (Qui-gon cheated at dice) steal (They stole Ani due to Qui-gon's cheating) and possibly kill/lobotmize force users (the movie never says what they'd do to Anikin if Qui-gon hadn't given the council the finger, but do you really think they'd let him go?) Paragons of Virtue they weren't. Lawful Neutral maybe.
Heck, Mace Windu is said to (in the EU) flirt with the darkside in his fighting style, and Luke uses Force Choke in the movies for crying out loud!
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I wanted to hit these.
3) Darth Vader is said to have helped hunt down and kill the Jedi in Episode 4, but most of that work is done by the clone troopers. Vader mostly just butches off Jedi in the temple, particularly the kids, as far as we can tell. So are we to assume that a whole bunch of Jedi actually did survive and Vader did help hunt them down?
In the EU, yes. (I'd like to see Ashoka killed by Darth Vader, but it's because it fits her character (I'm one of the few people who like 'Snips')). Darth Vader does hunt down the remaining Jedi, though I'd like to think they keep this open enough that Ben and Yoda aren't the last.
4) In Episode 6, Luke asks Leia about what she remembers of her mother. Having learned they are twins, it's clear that Luke is fishing for info about his own mother. And Leia remembers her. But in Episode 3, we learn that her mother died in childbirth. The poignant scene between Luke and Leia changes character because now it means that Leia is remembering her adopted mother and not their shared mother.
This can be explained in game terms, if Leia is stronger in Sense and Luke is stronger in Control (non-saga, Star Wars d20, Luke is a guardian, Leia is a counsular in other words). Again, it's retconning the explaination, but possible. Else, yes, it's a goof that Lucas missed, he sucks as a writer.
Now, what might be considered a much bigger plot hole is the fact that Obi Wan gave Luke to LUKE and ANAKIN's RELATIVES, on his homeworld. Out of all the millions of billions of beings in the galaxy, he gave them to some of the few people that Anakin knew personally and that were related to him. If it's not 'it's so stupid, he'll never think we did it', I don't know what is. Not to mention that Obi Wan continues to wear jedi robes, all while living NEAR those relatives.I, Jedi touches on this in a way I found funny (along with ripping apart huge chunks of Kevin Anderson's Novels, but that's public service). Corran suggests that Luke becoming a Jedi knight and taking out the emperor was plan B. Plan A was Luke, using the Skywalker name and applying to the imperial academy was an elaborate trap. 'Skywalker' pings in the Imperial Google, Vader goes to check out who this upstart kid is on his home planet. He arrives, sees his step-brother. Obi-Won ambushes him, they fight. If Obi-Won wins, Vader goes boom in an explosion of Dark Side energies on a desolate planet, as opposed to say, downtown Courscant. He wasn't hidden, he was bait.
Luke is reduced to bleating 'that can't be true, Ben wouldn't do that!' When Corran says "It could be true, from a certain point of view."
When you look at the Republic Jedi from the prequils, willing to lie, use mind control, ("You will take Republic Credits") cheat (Qui-gon cheated at dice) steal (They stole Ani due to Qui-gon's cheating) and possibly kill/lobotmize force users (the movie never says what they'd do to Anikin if Qui-gon hadn't given the council the finger, but do you really think they'd let him go?) Paragons of Virtue they weren't. Lawful Neutral maybe.
Heck, Mace Windu is said to (in the EU) flirt with the darkside in his fighting style, and Luke uses Force Choke in the movies for crying out loud!
Paragons, no, but come ON...to me, the Jedi are an example of use/responsiblity of power(the motivation From the DC RPG). I see where you are coming from, but the Jedi(as individuals, not necessarily an organization) had to occasionally show teeth, as opposed to the Sith, who were all bite and no bark whatsoever. YEARS upon YEARS ago, I wrote up something that I used to explain the Jedi and the Sith for my d6 Star Wars game that made the Rule of Two(which I find utterly laughable- LONG LIVE THE ONE SITH!!!!!) palatable for me and most of my players- I'd like your thoughts on it when/if I find it later on tonight.
I wanted to hit these.
3) Darth Vader is said to have helped hunt down and kill the Jedi in Episode 4, but most of that work is done by the clone troopers. Vader mostly just butches off Jedi in the temple, particularly the kids, as far as we can tell. So are we to assume that a whole bunch of Jedi actually did survive and Vader did help hunt them down?In the EU, yes. (I'd like to see Ashoka killed by Darth Vader, but it's because it fits her character (I'm one of the few people who like 'Snips')). Darth Vader does hunt down the remaining Jedi, though I'd like to think they keep this open enough that Ben and Yoda aren't the last.
** spoiler omitted **4) In Episode 6, Luke asks Leia about what she remembers of her mother. Having learned they are twins, it's clear that Luke is fishing for info about his own mother. And Leia remembers her. But in Episode 3, we learn that her mother died in childbirth. The poignant scene between Luke and Leia changes character because now it means that Leia is remembering her adopted mother and not their shared mother.This can be explained in game terms, if Leia is stronger in Sense and Luke is stronger in Control (non-saga, Star Wars d20, Luke is a guardian, Leia is a counsular in other words). Again, it's retconning the explaination, but possible. Else, yes, it's a goof that Lucas missed, he sucks as a writer.
D6 STAR WARS FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No other system got the Jedi down pat as well as this one.
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D6 STAR WARS FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No other system got the Jedi down pat as well as this one.
My d6 memories, fuzzy they are. I, Jedi does all but spell out the force mechanics from the RPG though. Quite funny.
As to 'showing some teeth' I'd be more impressed if they didn't take the easy way. I mean, Qui-gon cheating, Obi-won using mind tricks to screw with a guy's mind to make him go away (and let Lucas stick in a blatent anti-smoking message), That's not being guides and counsolars, that's being lazy.
One might even say that's the faster easier way, and of the dark side.
It also seems to infect the Clone Wars. I mean the Jedi seem to have a 'suck it up' mentality.
Anikin: Master Yoda, I had a dream that Padme was going to die.
Yoda: Hmm, sucks that does, future cannot be changed. Why not build emotional attachments you must.
Boba Fett: You killed my father! I won't forgive you!
Mace Windu: Yes I killed your father, deal with it.
Luke: My friends! They're in pain.
Yoda: Always in motion is the future. Suck it up you must, training you shall complete.
My Star Wars.
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As I said, the prequels hardly give anyone the impression that Owen and Beru know anything significant about Anakin other than he killed a bunch of sandpeople.
I'm not sure we know even that. I would say, based on the film, only Padme knew of what really happened when he broke down and told her.
I think the esteemed Mr. Mona hit the nail on the head with his illuminating reference.
D6 STAR WARS FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No other system got the Jedi down pat as well as this one.My d6 memories, fuzzy they are. I, Jedi does all but spell out the force mechanics from the RPG though. Quite funny.
As to 'showing some teeth' I'd be more impressed if they didn't take the easy way. I mean, Qui-gon cheating, Obi-won using mind tricks to screw with a guy's mind to make him go away (and let Lucas stick in a blatent anti-smoking message), That's not being guides and counsolars, that's being lazy.
One might even say that's the faster easier way, and of the dark side.
It also seems to infect the Clone Wars. I mean the Jedi seem to have a 'suck it up' mentality.
Anikin: Master Yoda, I had a dream that Padme was going to die.
Yoda: Hmm, sucks that does, future cannot be changed. Why not build emotional attachments you must.Boba Fett: You killed my father! I won't forgive you!
Mace Windu: Yes I killed your father, deal with it.Luke: My friends! They're in pain.
Yoda: Always in motion is the future. Suck it up you must, training you shall complete.My Star Wars.
** spoiler omitted **
If I didn't know any better, I'd SWEAR you were my wife. She truly, truly hates the jedi and is pro-sith because "hey, at least they're HONEST about it!". On the other hand she LOVES Ashoka.
Re: Spoiler- I'd say a good case could be made for the degredation of the jedi code over time and their increase in using heavy handed tactics.
1) Midiclorians. Lore in IV is they don't know why some people are stronger with the force and others aren't. This is the way it should be. In I, they could measure it with a simple hand held blood test. F-ing lame, nice way to take the mysticism out of it.
2) In IV, Darth Vader couldn't remember his C3PO and R2D2, one droid that he created and another that saved his life and was his companion? Please. They should have left the droids out of episodes I-III.
There is more but it doesn't really matter. Lucas has lost it and should take a backseat to other talented writers and directors. He almost ruined the Star Wars franchise with Episode I, which I didn't think was even possible.
2) In IV, Darth Vader couldn't remember his C3PO and R2D2, one droid that he created and another that saved his life and was his companion? Please. They should have left the droids out of episodes I-III.
Please don't get me wrong, I think Star Wars is better when somebody else writes/directs/whatever it...
Anyways, you could squint at this a little and it passes. There are probably millions or billions of R2 units in the galaxy...easy to not notice after a while. Plus, I don't think Vader ever sees R2!
As for C-3PO, there's something very subtle going on in Empire Strikes Back. When 3PO gets blasted, and Chewie rescues his parts, he's allowed to stay with the heroes even after they're captured. Heck, Chewie even has tools to fix him! Would you give prisoners (especially cunning prisoners that included a freakin' wookiee!) tools that could be used to open locks, kill guards or find a way out? A sophisticated pile of electronics that may or may not be able to be turned into weapons?
I think it belies a soft-spot in Vader for his lost droid. From what I recall, there's an interesting Star Wars Tales about that (that I like to think is true, but I'm not sure if it's 'canon' or not). Here's the wikipedia page
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Thank_the_Maker
But still, the fact is he kept him around... and didn't just have him hauled away by Imperial techs.
"Don't sneeze on me..I dont' want to catch your JEDI GERMS!!!!" - My wife.
Re: the Larses and knowing Anakin - given that it was Obi Wan who gave Luke to Owen and Beru in the first place, Owen's attitude toward Obi Wan makes no sense... unless Obi Wan explained what happened with Anakin and more or less said, "So take your step-brother's son and raise him, but be aware that in doing this I'm putting you in the crosshairs of the second-most powerful and deadly Imperial agent in the galaxy."
So, yeah, I think they knew the real deal. And didn't appreciate it. I think it explains some of the resentment Owen seems to carry toward Luke, in fact.
Re: the Larses and knowing Anakin - given that it was Obi Wan who gave Luke to Owen and Beru in the first place, Owen's attitude toward Obi Wan makes no sense... unless Obi Wan explained what happened with Anakin and more or less said, "So take your step-brother's son and raise him, but be aware that in doing this I'm putting you in the crosshairs of the second-most powerful and deadly Imperial agent in the galaxy."
So, yeah, I think they knew the real deal. And didn't appreciate it. I think it explains some of the resentment Owen seems to carry toward Luke, in fact.
That's the most original nick I've seen on these boards in some time.
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What are y'all talking about? The Star Wars Trilogy is a fine piece of cinematography, and pretty consistent in its continuity.
It's a shame they stopped making Star Wars movies in '83. Could have been a cool re-visitation somewhere down the line. Oh, and I wonder why they never made any cartoons, wrote any novels or did a comic book. They may have been cool, too.
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What are y'all talking about? The Star Wars Trilogy is a fine piece of cinematography, and pretty consistent in its continuity.
It's a shame they stopped making Star Wars movies in '83. Could have been a cool re-visitation somewhere down the line. Oh, and I wonder why they never made any cartoons, wrote any novels or did a comic book. They may have been cool, too.
It's just one of life's little mysteries. Like why the Highlander movies skip from 1 to 3.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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What are y'all talking about? The Star Wars Trilogy is a fine piece of cinematography, and pretty consistent in its continuity.
It's a shame they stopped making Star Wars movies in '83. Could have been a cool re-visitation somewhere down the line. Oh, and I wonder why they never made any cartoons, wrote any novels or did a comic book. They may have been cool, too.
I'm still waiting for the sequel to the Matrix.
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What are y'all talking about? The Star Wars Trilogy is a fine piece of cinematography, and pretty consistent in its continuity.
It's a shame they stopped making Star Wars movies in '83. Could have been a cool re-visitation somewhere down the line. Oh, and I wonder why they never made any cartoons, wrote any novels or did a comic book. They may have been cool, too.
It's just one of life's little mysteries. Like why the Highlander movies skip from 1 to 3.
Yeah, weird how that happened.
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I'm still waiting for the sequel to the Matrix.What are y'all talking about? The Star Wars Trilogy is a fine piece of cinematography, and pretty consistent in its continuity.
It's a shame they stopped making Star Wars movies in '83. Could have been a cool re-visitation somewhere down the line. Oh, and I wonder why they never made any cartoons, wrote any novels or did a comic book. They may have been cool, too.
Hmmm. That might make a good movie. Hope they get on it soon.
Now, what might be considered a much bigger plot hole is the fact that Obi Wan gave Luke to LUKE and ANAKIN's RELATIVES, on his homeworld. Out of all the millions of billions of beings in the galaxy, he gave them to some of the few people that Anakin knew personally and that were related to him. If it's not 'it's so stupid, he'll never think we did it', I don't know what is. Not to mention that Obi Wan continues to wear jedi robes, all while living NEAR those relatives.
Anakin knew that Padme was pregnant, but not that she had twins. Luke was the decoy. Leia was supposed to be the savior of the Jedi Order. Jedi are a cold, emotionless bunch.
Just kidding...
...or am I?
>:)
Ben tells Luke in ep5 that Yoda was the Jedi who trained him but in ep1 it was Qui-Gon who trained Ben.
I believe Ben actually says Yoda "instructed" him, which he did. Particularly in episode III and a short time after episode III.
Ep4 - Ben tells Luke the force is an energy field that permeates all things but in ep1 Qui-Gon tells Anakin the force is created by microscopic bacteria that lives in living things.
That is a bad dream that is best if it is never mentioned again. Like Highlander II.
Ep4 Ben tells Luke that when he met his father he was already a great pilot but in ep1 Anakin is a slave and has never been inside a starship or a plane.
He piloted a podracer.
The only one I can really think of is Anakin built C3PO, but when he meets C3PO in The Empire Strikes Back, there is no reaction or comment. Now, C3PO had his memory erased, but Vader didn't. The only plausable explanation is that he didn't know it was C3PO, but thought it was just some random protocol droid.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Now, what might be considered a much bigger plot hole is the fact that Obi Wan gave Luke to LUKE and ANAKIN's RELATIVES, on his homeworld. Out of all the millions of billions of beings in the galaxy, he gave them to some of the few people that Anakin knew personally and that were related to him. If it's not 'it's so stupid, he'll never think we did it', I don't know what is. Not to mention that Obi Wan continues to wear jedi robes, all while living NEAR those relatives.
Anakin knew that Padme was pregnant, but not that she had twins. Luke was the decoy. Leia was supposed to be the savior of the Jedi Order. Jedi are a cold, emotionless bunch.
Just kidding...
...or am I?
>:)
Have you read I, Jedi by chance?
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Here's one thing really wrong with the continuity:
The Real Skywalker Lineage
Scene: A furious lightsaber duel is underway. Darth Vader is backing Luke Skywalker towards the end of the gantry. A quick move by Vader chops off Luke's hand. It goes spinning off into the ventilation shaft. Luke backs away. He looks around, but realizes there's nowhere to go but straight down...
Darth Vader: Obi Wan never told you what happened to your father.
Luke: He told me enough! He told me you killed him!
Darth Vader: No, Luke... I am your father!
Luke: No! It's not true! It's impossible!
Darth Vader: Search your feelings... you know it to be true.
Luke: NO! It can't be!
Darth Vader: Yes, it is true... and you know what else? You know that brass droid of yours?
Luke: Threepio?
Darth Vader: Yes, C-3PO. I built him -- when I was only seven years old.
Luke: No! Say it isn't so!
Darth Vader: Yes, I was only seven years old! And what have you done? Look at yourself: No lightsaber, no hand, no job and couldn't even levitate your own ship out of the swamp.
Luke:But I destroyed the Death Star!
Darth Vader: When you were 20! When I was ten, I single-handedly destroyed a Trade Federation Droid Control ship!
Luke: Well, it's not my fault...
Darth Vader: Oh, here we go... "Poor me! My father never gave me what I wanted for my birthday... boo hoo, my daddy's the Dark Lord of the Sith... waahhh wahhh!"
Luke: Shut up.
Darth Vader: You're a slacker! By the time I was your age, I had exterminated the Jedi knights!
Luke: I used to race my T-16 through Beggar's Canyon!
Darth Vader: Oh, for the love of the Emperor...! Listen, ten years old and winner of the Boonta Eve Open, the only human to ever fly a Pod Racer -- right here, baby!
(Luke looks down the shaft. Takes a step towards it.)
Darth Vader: I was wrong. You're not my kid. I don't know whose you are, but you sure ain't mine.
(Luke takes a step off the platform, hesitates, then plunges down the shaft. Darth Vader looks after him.)
Darth Vader: Son, get a haircut!
Copied from the Science Fiction Alliance, circa 2003.
This highlights one of George Lucas's major continuity failings in crafting the prequels - the Wah Hoo factor. It's like he feels he has to top what he did before. Not only can the Jedi jump pretty well, do a few flips, hit impossible targets, and levitate stuff - now they can jump out of speeders thousands of feet away from the speeder they want to catch and all sorts of other wacky stuff because he has to top what he did before. If the Star Wars movies were at 10 on the amplifier, he had to find one to go to 11 for the prequels, perhaps even 12 for the wretched Attack of the Clones.
I can accept that the technology of the film-making has improved, that this enables the clone troopers to have much cooler weaponry than the stormtroopers 20-30 years later. The production process has simply made it easier to spew loads of flash and bang across the screen. But that doesn't explain why the scope of ability had to be ratcheted up.
It's just one of life's little mysteries. Like why the Highlander movies skip from 1 to 3.
What are you talking about? There can be only one. Hence the reason why there was only one movie, and it never spawned sequels or the even more ridiculous idea of television spin-offs.