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(I had a much longer post before, but somehow it never showed up.)
I'm thinking of converting the Generic Classes to Pathfinder. The question is since Pathfinder added quite a number of new abilities to all classes how should that be reflected in the Generics.
Proposal for changes to class skeletons:
Expert:
Hit Die: d8
Bonus Feats: Gained every level.
Spellcaster:
Hit Die: d6
Skill Points: 4 + Int (this is just because I like characters having skills)
Bonus Feats: Gained every odd level.
Warrior:
Skill Points: 4 + Int
Bonus Feats: Gained every level.
For the bonus feats that emulate class features it seems that all that's really needed is Prerequisites that ensure a feature can't be taken before it would have been gained by the class it originally came from. There are a few tricky ones, however:
*Channel Energy: Should this get an automatic increase or should you have to increase it via feats.
*Domain granted abilities: These don't come in a precise progression, some domains gain abilities faster than others.
*Wild Shape: I was kind of hoping to allow anyone to take this, not just spellcasters.
So I'd appreciate any advice/help/constructive criticism anyone can give.
(And just in case it comes up: No, I'm not interested in True20.)
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Class Features Converted to Bonus Feats (so far):
All class features work as in the original version except as noted here. Assume that you can take a Bonus Feat only once unless you meet the Improvement conditions.
(Note: Currently treating Wild Empathy as a skill rather than a class feature. Also treating Track feat as if an automatica part of the Survival skill.)
Damage Reduction: Pre: Base Fort save +6
Improvement: For every two additional points of Base Fort you may take this Bonus Feat again, effects stacking, up to a maximum of DR 4/—.
Indomitable Will: Pre: Base Fort save +9
Trackless Step: Pre: Survival 3 ranks and ability to cast 2nd level spells
Wild Shape: Pre: Wild Empathy 6 ranks and character level 6th
You may use Wild Shape as a druid class level equal to your character level – 2
Improvement: For every two ranks of Empathy and two character levels you may take this Bonus Feat again and gain one more daily use and an increase of one size category in both directions of animals whose form you can take.
A thousand faces: Pre: Bluff 13 ranks, Disguise 13 ranks
Armor Training: Pre: Proficiency with armor, BAB +3
Improvement: For every four additional points of BAB you gain you may take this Bonus Feat again, effects stacking, to a maximum of four times.
Armor Mastery: Pre: Armor Mastery taken 4 times, BAB +19
Weapon Training: Pre: Proficiency with martial weapons, BAB +5
Improvement: For every four additional points of BAB you gain you may take this Bonus Feat again, choosing a new weapon group and increasing the bonus to all previous groups by +1, to a maximum of four times.
Favored Enemy: Pre: Survival 1 rank, BAB +1
Improvement: Every time you reach a rank of Survival and BAB devisible by 5 you may take this feat again, choosing a new favored enemy and adding +2 to the bonus of any chosen favored enemy (including the one you just chose), to a maximum of 5 favored enemies.
Favored Terrain: Pre: Survival 3 ranks, Knowledge (geography) 3 ranks
Improvement: For every additional 5 ranks of Survival and Knowledge (geography) you may take this Bonus Feat again, choosing a new favored terrain and adding +2 to the bonus of any chosen favored terrain (including the one you just chose), to a maximum of 4 favored terrains.
Hunter’s Bond: Pre: Wild Empathy 4 ranks, Survival 4 ranks
Woodland Stride: Pre: Survival 7 ranks, OR Survival 2 ranks and ability to cast 1st level spells
Swift Tracker: Pre: Survival 8 ranks
Camouflage: Pre: Stealth 12 ranks, Survival 12 ranks
Heee, at first, I thought you were talking about the NPC classes and that left me confused.
Good idea though. I was wondering whether you're converting new class features to bonus feats or updating old bonus feats though. I'm not actually that familiar with these classes, only glanced at them a couple times.
The original Generic Classes mostly just gave Class Features prerequisites, essentially making them feats, and then I've always assumed you only got to take them as one of your class's, not character's, feat slots.
Of course the original didn't include Improvment, I added that because I'm too lazy to write multiple entries when I think a simpler method will do. Unfortunately, as you an see from Damage Reduction, it doesn't result in an exact conversion.
You may want to take a look at True20's Expert, Adept, and Warrior classes to see how they did it. It will all still need to be "Pathfinderized" but might give you some ideas.
If you don't know what True20 is, it's an OGL-based game by Green Ronin, who also make Mutants and Masterminds (which is essentially a classless, point-buy based, supers focused version of True20).
DeathQuaker wrote: You may want to take a look at True20's Expert, Adept, and Warrior classes to see how they did it. It will all still need to be "Pathfinderized" but might give you some ideas.
If you don't know what True20 is, it's an OGL-based game by Green Ronin, who also make Mutants and Masterminds (which is essentially a classless, point-buy based, supers focused version of True20).
From my original post:
SilvercatMoonpaw wrote: (And just in case it comes up: No, I'm not interested in True20.) There's nothing wrong with True20 (which actually looks to me (because I have read it) like they took the Generic Classes and modified them even further), but for this project I wanted to actually use the spells and other features of Pathfinder. True20 can be a little bland.
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Attempting to Convert some of the more tricky Class Features:
Channel Energy: Pre: ability to cast 1st level spells, at least one spell of 1st level or higher must be of the "healing" sub-school
You may use "Channel Energy" at 1d6, 3+Cha modifier times per day.
Improvement: For every new spell level you gain you may take this feat again, adding +1d6 to the amount which you can channel, to a maximum of 9d6.
(As you can see my "Improvement" method is really wonky, and that's what worried me. Also any spellcaster taking this route all the way has basically blown through all their Bonus Feats except either one at 1st or 3rd level.)
Lay on Hands: Pre: Heal 1 rank, Base Will save +2
You may Lay on Hands at 1d6 once per day.
Improvement: At two additional ranks of Heal, and every three additional ranks thereafter, you may take this feat again, gaining +1d6 to the amount which you may heal per use, +1 uses per day, and adding one Mercy.
Domain Granted Power: Pre: ability to cast 1st level spells
You gain the initial granted power of any domain.
Improvement: For every new spell level you gain you may take this feat again, either selecting the higher level granted ability for a domain you've already taken the initial ability for — for which you must qualify by the stated level — or the initial ability of a domain you have not taken.
Bloodline Power: Pre: ability to cast 1st level spells
You gain the initial bloodline power of any available bloodline. (If it is a power that grants claws you use them at will instead of the listed duration.)
Improvement: After reaching 3rd, 9th, 15th, and 19th levels in the spellcaster class you may take this feat again, either selecting the next bloodline power in the progression or the initial power of a new available bloodline.
(This time there was no easy progression for the "Improvment" entry, so I just had to give the levels.)
This could be an interesting idea, methinks, but it would need quite some work.
I take that as a given. Anything specific you can think of?
Would you have separate spell-caster classes or just the one? Also, I wouldn't make Wild Empathy a skill, but you allow a class feature to use Diplomacy on animals.
I thought the point of Wild Empathy was to not have someone who could deal with people automatically be as able to deal with animals. Also it means that there's one more skill for Charisma to add to, and I think that score could use all the help it can get.
As for casters there would only be one class. If people want to have more than one that's accomplished by suggested spell lists and bonus feat picks, but allows for a "style dabbler" to essentially "multiclass" without being reduced in power.
Well, you're still adding an extra skill to the ranger and druid lists and they are already skill-intensive. I'm not sure it's a good idea.
There wouldn't be a ranger or druid list because there wouldn't be a ranger or druid class. Furthermore if there was some worry there were too many skills I can think of several which I've thought of consolidating or removing.
True, true. I'm not thinking :P To what would you change the PF skill list?
Just read over the Generic Classes again and I came back with a suggestion. I'd either make metamagic easier or more common, considering the spellcaster gets less spells per day than a Sorcerer. I know it's not much fewer, but in the earlier levels the magical classes' limitations can feel claustrophobic as it is.
I've been on a long hiatus from the boards, but was involved in a thread about making metamagic more common. Someone was trying to tie a skill check (spellcraft, I think) to applying a metamagic feat spontaneously. Interesting idea, and if you want I can try to find it.
An idea I had was giving casters the Bard's spell slot list. This list would be secondary, gained at first level, and would expand at each level just as a Bard's does. However, the slots could only be used to supply the spell levels metamagic feats require. Something I didn't mention there because I just thought of it, if someone takes levels in a prestige class, this 'metamagic slot list' could be one of the costs.
I also had written a custom first-level spell called ligature, and when cast it bound a metamagic feat to another spell one casts in the same round (casting time is a swift action). Beside the casting, it required an additional sacrificed slot of equal level to the adjustment the feat requires. More complex than this synopsis, but you get the idea. I can dig this up too if you like.
Probably the easiest thing I'll suggest is making the Spell Secret class feature available to the Spellcaster class, give or take the taboos it imposes. Read up on your Wu Jen if you're not familiar with it. It's a great class feature.
Leonis472 wrote: ...considering the spellcaster gets less spells per day than a Sorcerer. I think that's because they get to choose their spells from all spell lists. Also they get many more choices in terms of choosing their own class features and which is their good save. It's sacrificing power for variety.
(My personal style would be fewer spells known but more per day. But I wasn't looking to make those sorts of houserules in the first draft.)
You are, of course, correct. But the variety is still limited, as most of the time the spontaneous caster's known spells list is unalterable.
There's not much more variety for the cost, and granted, the cost isn't that much. In numbers, anyway. But since healing is now possible for what is for all purposes a Sorcerer, the Spellcaster will likely bog down his spells known in filling the role of Cleric. While he has more variety, he may have less fun, in that he still knows only a limited number of spells but now a third to half of them are going to be ones used on the party's necessities. Which isn't a bad thing for the party, or even for the campaign, just perhaps not for that player.
There are, of course, more than just divine spells to meet the party's needs. Divine would include healing, curing and resurrection spells, maybe a few divinations. Arcane would be spells like teleport, or the really fun ones like magnificent mansion. An average Spellcaster probably wouldn't opt for that last one, but the motherly/fatherly Spellcaster would almost certainly opt for tiny hut or secure shelter.
The spells the player would really want quickly are crowded out. In retrospect, probably my best suggestion was making Spell Secret available with the other array of feats and features.
That or giving the Spellcaster a book of spells not on his spells known list but can craft scrolls from.
The thing is I have no interest in magic as it stands in Pathfinder, so really I don't care what happens to spellcasters.
Also you'll notice from the post dates I rather abandoned this project. If you want to pick it up I won't care.
I followed the link you left here on Friday. I did notice the post dates, and observed that you were still responsive to the thread before I posted.
Oh well. Maybe someone can get something out of it. : )
Anyone tried translocating APG stuff to Generic Classes?
I'm kinda interested in this topic.
Tried too
Recent threads in Homebrew and House Rules
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