Flanking with a Kineticist


Rules Discussion

Grand Lodge

Am I correct in assuming that a Kineticist without an actual reach weapon in his hands, will not be considered threatening unless he's adjacent to the opponent, even with Weapon infusion?


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

You would be incorrect. Everyone has unarmed fist attacks or equivalent in PF2e. Everyone can flank or contribute to flanking so long as they are capable of making attacks (that is, not tied up, paralyzed, stunned for a duration, lacking reach, or something similar).

You can find the official rules for flanking here. Note that threatened areas never come up. That terminology does not exist as a mechanical term in this game insofar as I'm aware.

If an unnarmed kineticist made a melee attack while flanking, his target would be off-guard against the attack, barring some special defense.

Note that an elemental blast is considered a melee or ranged impulse attack. If the melee option is used--with or without Weapon Infusion--the kineticist can benefit from flanking just as readily as a spellcaster making a melee spell attack.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

You would be correct that Weapon Infusion isn't relevant to flanking, though. Only melee weapons and unarmed attacks (and their reach) matter to providing a flank for an ally.

A melee kinetic blast would benefit from flanking when you're in that position, though.


As noted, elemental blast (and weapon infusion) aren't relevant for flanking.

But basically everyone can make melee attacks (unarmed, which doesn't provoke attacks or anything like that, and there is no threatening in PF2). As such, while the elemental blast and weapon infusion aren't relevant, the unarmed strike the kineticist can make is, and does threaten at whatever reach the creature has (probably 5ft for a medium creature).


Also, if you for some reason have a problem with that, there are several weapons with the free-hand trait that wouldn't interfere with a kineticists abilities. Put on a spiked gauntlet and they're ready to go.


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Basically, if you want reach flanking for a kin, carry a whip.


Agonarchy wrote:
Basically, if you want reach flanking for a kin, carry a whip.

Seems unlikely an unnecessary anyways. If you're a melee kineticist you're probably already adjacent to the enemy. And if you're a ranged kineticist you aren't close enough for it to matter.

But I suppose it is a one handed reach weapon, and you only need one hand free...so you're no losing anything I suppose.


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Aristophanes wrote:
Am I correct in assuming that a Kineticist without an actual reach weapon in his hands, will not be considered threatening unless he's adjacent to the opponent, even with Weapon infusion?

Yes. You have that correct.

Weapon Infusion can add the Reach trait to one particular Elemental Blast casting, but that doesn't persist permanently.

It is much like the Extending Rune. You don't keep the melee reach that you gain for more than the action that it modifies.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Ah, I see now that I misread the OP's question. Totally missed the "unless he's adjacent to the opponent" somehow. Totally changes the question. Sorry. I thought you were asking about being able to flank unarmed, or with nothing but elemental blasts.


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An Advanced or Persistent Weapon Infusion feat that would allow this would certainly have its fans, but the fiction is closer to a cantrip than actually wielding a weapon.


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I too somehow missed that the OP was looking for reach. Yeah, you won't get it from your elemental blasts and weapon infusions.

Honestly, if you're really worried about flanking grabbing a whip is an easy solution.


Does feel really weird that you can just carry a whip to grant reach flanking, even though you're not proficient with it. I'm gonna remember this if I ever play another kineticist, though. It's pretty good if you're not using a hand to hold an item (or a shield, at lower levels).


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Witch of Miracles wrote:
Does feel really weird that you can just carry a whip to grant reach flanking, even though you're not proficient with it.

I guess it doesn't take much training to look threatening with it.


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"aw shoot, that guy has a whip. You know how hard those are to use? I split my own lip when I tried. He MUST be dangerous"


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The wind howls across the battlefield. The battle wasn't going the way Malic and his kobold brethren had expected.

The goal had been to remove the real danger, a thin and gaunt looking Orc in the back, dressed in clothes and wearing various holy symbols. All he had to do was get by that lumbering brute with the oversized greatsword. They had anticipated that. Even the shots of deadly arrows from the elf with a devilish glint in her eyes were obvious. Looking at her mad him mad for some reason. Didn't they know what a cliche they were, bah.

What they hadn't anticipated was a wall of fire erupring between them on the way to the ambush. Worse, the Minotaur was brandishing a whip in a very threatening manner. If he could make a wall of fire appear, how much more deadly might he be with that whip!

Liberty's Edge

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Kilraq Starlight wrote:

The wind howls across the battlefield. The battle wasn't going the way Malic and his kobold brethren had expected.

The goal had been to remove the real danger, a thin and gaunt looking Orc in the back, dressed in clothes and wearing various holy symbols. All he had to do was get by that lumbering brute with the oversized greatsword. They had anticipated that. Even the shots of deadly arrows from the elf with a devilish glint in her eyes were obvious. Looking at her mad him mad for some reason. Didn't they know what a cliche they were, bah.

What they hadn't anticipated was a wall of fire erupring between them on the way to the ambush. Worse, the Minotaur was brandishing a whip in a very threatening manner. If he could make a wall of fire appear, how much more deadly might he be with that whip!

And now we know why the Balrog wields a whip.


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Hey, if my Enfeebled 3, -1 STR Gnome Oracle can look threatening carrying a staff with no runes on it, just imagine how dangerous a whip must look!

It's all in how well you sell it, really.

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