So, in the playtest the mystic and the witchwarper both gained 8 HP per level, but in the release version the mystic has been bumped down to 6 HP per level. I haven't really got any strong feelings on whether this is "good" or "bad," but it is interesting; I figured they would either both see their HP pools reduced, or neither would. It's also slightly ironic given that the witchwarper has less HP than the mystic in SF1E.
My question for folks to discuss is, why do you think mystic's HP was reduced while witchwarper's wasn't? Do you think it's got something to do with the mystic's greater emphasis on healing? Do you think mystics ability to cast at greater range, thanks to Relay Spell, suggested a difference in stats? Or maybe it's a shuffling around of benefits tied to saves and the like?
I'm interested to hear people's theories on the change.
|
3 people marked this as a favorite.
|
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
I played a mystic who threw on resist elements and walked around a laser shootout impervious to harm, being able to regenerate more innately per round than all the enemies focus firing could get through.
There are a lot of situations where that HP pool makes you more survivable than the game necessarily expects.
I think the HP reduction is an attempt to make it feel a tad bit more even.
But the Witchwarper should be nerfed to 6 or Mystic brought to 8 hi points.
|
3 people marked this as a favorite.
|
Mystic's feature is a much bigger impact that Witchwarper's, and I think that cut had to go somewhere.
Another possibility is that it's necessary with that perpetually regenerating pool of health. An at-will one action heal means that nobody is ever out of the fight until either the Mystic is unconscious or characters are dead dead. If Mystic is the lowest nominal health, it might help a little with that.
|
3 people marked this as a favorite.
|
The mystic has lots of self healing potential, only half the WWs have poor healing options. WWs also need to stand still and take fire to cast spells and do QF related actions, Mystics can have more third actions to move and take cover early before anyone is seriously hurt.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
Xenocrat wrote: The mystic has lots of self healing potential, only half the WWs have poor healing options. WWs also need to stand still and take fire to cast spells and do QF related actions, Mystics can have more third actions to move and take cover early before anyone is seriously hurt. Oh, I hadn't considered the fact that witchwarpers would be more stationary because of manipulating their field. That's a good point.
It also seems as if the "Battle Mystic" play style that they mentioned in the playtest has been de-enphasized. Elements no longer grants extra damage, they have reduced health, and iirc they lost divine weapon familiarity too?
It's a shame, because I still think it's a really fun and interesting play style. Spending combats focusing on strikes + transfers with third actions striding and taking cover, and your spellcasting is mostly combat buffs or out of combat utility. Really interesting and unconventional approach to a typical caster chassis!
|
2 people marked this as a favorite.
|
Justnobodyfqwl wrote: It also seems as if the "Battle Mystic" play style that they mentioned in the playtest has been de-enphasized. Elements no longer grants extra damage, they have reduced health, and iirc they lost divine weapon familiarity too?
It's a shame, because I still think it's a really fun and interesting play style. Spending combats focusing on strikes + transfers with third actions striding and taking cover, and your spellcasting is mostly combat buffs or out of combat utility. Really interesting and unconventional approach to a typical caster chassis!
Maybe it'll come back as a class archetype in future, a beefier mystic with more weapon proficiency, possibly HP, but with reduced healing capabilities. Maybe trading in their Vitality Network for some kind of shared battlemind-like feature, instead.
|
2 people marked this as a favorite.
|
It's also worth noting that you can pretty effectively turn Mystic into a 10 hitpoint class with no healing pool using Network Shield. The fact that in the playtest it could effectively be a 12-16 hitpoint class... might have something to do with some of the changes.
Perpdepog wrote: Justnobodyfqwl wrote: It also seems as if the "Battle Mystic" play style that they mentioned in the playtest has been de-enphasized. Elements no longer grants extra damage, they have reduced health, and iirc they lost divine weapon familiarity too?
It's a shame, because I still think it's a really fun and interesting play style. Spending combats focusing on strikes + transfers with third actions striding and taking cover, and your spellcasting is mostly combat buffs or out of combat utility. Really interesting and unconventional approach to a typical caster chassis!
Maybe it'll come back as a class archetype in future, a beefier mystic with more weapon proficiency, possibly HP, but with reduced healing capabilities. Maybe trading in their Vitality Network for some kind of shared battlemind-like feature, instead. That's an interesting idea! I think "Battle Mystic" they described in the playtest was kind of the opposite. They mention that you can afford to focus your spells out of combat and alternate between strikes and transfers as a "midrange pitch-hitter". A class archetype around that would probably be something more like trading your spell slots for base HP and a unique feature- maybe some kind of Strike + Transfer Vitality action compression?
Whatever the case, I think it would make more sense for a Mystic to trade spell slots and keep their signature Transfer Vitality, rather than vice versa. (Then again, I've said before that I would LOVE a Martial Witchwarper with a Quantum Field- maybe I just love martials?)
Justnobodyfqwl wrote: It also seems as if the "Battle Mystic" play style that they mentioned in the playtest has been de-enphasized. Elements no longer grants extra damage, they have reduced health, and iirc they lost divine weapon familiarity too?
It's a shame, because I still think it's a really fun and interesting play style. Spending combats focusing on strikes + transfers with third actions striding and taking cover, and your spellcasting is mostly combat buffs or out of combat utility. Really interesting and unconventional approach to a typical caster chassis!
Man I hate what they did to Elemental, playtest elemental was such a neat connection.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
Squiggit wrote:
Man I hate what they did to Elemental, playtest elemental was such a neat connection.
It ruffled my feathers a bit at first! But the more I've sat on it, the more it feels like the right call. The transfer benefit was incredibly strong, but the focus spell was really weak. By making the extra damage be on the focus spell, it gives it a more clear purpose, and balances the power budget.
Being able to just x3 Transfer and boost damage on your whole party was really GENERICALLY strong. But by making the benefit be just changing elemental damage types, it offers a more subtle kind of versatility power.
The purpose of the subclass becomes more clear: communicating to players that Starfinder 2e seems to really value players having more reliable access to different damage types. It requires teamwork, set-up, and having your party recall knowledge to help out. But that's true for any good 2efinder system fight!
Eh, the old connection was too good but buffing strikes was a big part of the fun. I was hoping it'd get toned down in some way instead.
The spells too. Elementalized spiritual weapon was cool and unique for this kind of character. The summon and enhance weaponry thing created a clear theme that no one else really did.
The new one is probably fine, but there were two or three things that made the old version really stand out to me and those were the things taken out. So... eh. Guess I'm not bringing my playtest mystic into the full game. Very cool.
Squiggit wrote:
The new one is probably fine, but there were two or three things that made the old version really stand out to me and those were the things taken out. So... eh. Guess I'm not bringing my playtest mystic into the full game. Very cool.
I understand the pain. My absolute favorite playtest character was a Vesk Soldier, that combined Warning Shot (no-damage opening shot when you roll initiative) with the level 1 Vesk feat that let you free action increase the Frightened condition.
When you combined them with Intimidating Laughter and the Bombard Fighting Style, you could easily suppress multiple people -> frighten them -> increase the Frightened condition all within the first turn!
....and now neither of those feats are available at level 1. It happens!
Perpdepog wrote: Justnobodyfqwl wrote: It also seems as if the "Battle Mystic" play style that they mentioned in the playtest has been de-enphasized. Maybe it'll come back as a class archetype in future, a beefier mystic with more weapon proficiency, possibly HP, but with reduced healing capabilities. Maybe trading in their Vitality Network for some kind of shared battlemind-like feature, instead. Like Battle Harbinger Cleric?
Battle Harbinger Cleric is so bad...It's SO SLOW.
Finoan wrote: Perpdepog wrote: Justnobodyfqwl wrote: It also seems as if the "Battle Mystic" play style that they mentioned in the playtest has been de-enphasized. Maybe it'll come back as a class archetype in future, a beefier mystic with more weapon proficiency, possibly HP, but with reduced healing capabilities. Maybe trading in their Vitality Network for some kind of shared battlemind-like feature, instead. Like Battle Harbinger Cleric? Something along those lines, yeah. Though I also agree that reducing spellcasting would probably be better than reducing the mystic's ability to connect people. Making them more martial with the ability to double down on network benefits sounds a more exciting route to take.
Oh yeah, absolutely! I would def imagine that you're trading a lot of your spell slots for a very potent combat ability on your transfer vitality. If the +D4 damage on each transfer comes back, it would be here. I could also see something like a free Take Cover, Reload, or Stride on a Transfer Vitality as well.
Normally you would rattle off the typical "battle archetype, get martial proficiency and medium armor", but to be honest.. I'm not sure a mystic would WANT medium armor. You want to be pumping as much dex as you can anyway.
I think there's something very interesting about the fantasy of a mystic, supernatural warrior who relies on a psychic bond with their allies to support themselves in combat and cover their flank. A character who's healing with one hand and blasting with the other is a fun class fantasy!
You could also really double down on integrating the Mystic Bond offensively. Mystic Bonded creatures maybe can psychically communicate positioning better, letting everyone Step to reposition at the same time. Or maybe you can force enemies to empathetically feel the bond of your pain, redirecting damage back to them.
Recent threads in Starfinder General Discussion
|
