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The question is in the title. As you need a free hand to trace runes, it's a bit hard to use a Shield as a Runesmith without baring yourself from tracing runes during fights (which seems intented).
So I'm a bit puzzled.
You can use Rune-Singer too.
I think the question may be why use weapons regularly instead of using your actions for runes? Tracing runes is, crit success aside, guaranteed damage. Strikes can be a total waste more often.
So for now main ways to trace runes freely and have a weapon and a shield are those:
1) a buckler and a weapon
2) a shield with shield attachment or boss or other way to combine a shield and a weapon, plus free hand/free hand weapon
3) a shield and a free hand weapon
4) a shield and an unarmed attack
5)...6) ...?
Are those totally bad and unsuitable for playing this class?
1) Shield Blocking with a Buckler...
2 and 3) Super convoluted setups.4) Ancestry dependent. Not everyone can have valid unarmed attacks.
A class should be playable without jumping through tons of hoops.
2)...3) You are not serious. What's convoluted about it at all and moreover 'super'? Free hand weapons are ... just weapons. Shield bosses/spikes/attachments are ... just weapons. I thought complaints would be about dice sizes for example, but not this.
If a class can only use a couple of weapons then it shouldn't give Martial Weapon Proficiency. So you just moved the issue but it's still there.
I think the question may be why use weapons regularly instead of using your actions for runes? Tracing runes is, crit success aside, guaranteed damage. Strikes can be a total waste more often.
And twice the damage output of the game top damage dealers. I agree, runes are totally busted as is. I'll open a discussion.
So for now main ways to trace runes freely and have a weapon and a shield are those:
4) Ancestry dependent. Not everyone can have valid unarmed attacks.
A class should be playable without jumping through tons of hoops.
Uhh, you do know that everyone has a 1d4 base unarmed, right?
Moreover, there are *loads* of non-build ways to get unarmed attacks. There's plenty of temporary yet dependable effects via spells and alchemy.
Even *before* Grafts were added, there was the fleshgem implant to get a 1d6 piercing fist.
After Grafts, you've got teeth, horns, hand/foot claws, even a tail unarmed attack.
All of which can easily get a coating of homebrew flavor-paint if desired.
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If a class gives Shield Block and Martial Weapon Proficiency, I assume I can use a weapon and a shield. If I can't use a weapon and a shield then I consider there's an issue.
Feel free to disagree.
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You can use a shield, traced runes, and a (held) weapon. Unless you commit to a buckler you can’t use them all at once. There’s nothing wrong with this anymore than a targe magus having to decide between the shield cantrip and 2H or 1H and real shield. Or fighters getting both shield block and an incentive to use 2H reach weapons with RS. Having multiple tools that are somewhat incompatible is good flexibility in build options.
I'm on the side of making sword 'n board better on Runesmith, I think it's bad that you have to commit to a very underpowered and restrictive subsection of the playstyle if you want to use it.
Thanks for calling out Rune Singer, the one action to get a ranged use and the no manipulate to eat a reactive strike in melee uses both passed me by. I was only seeing the no hands available use, which I didn't (and mostly don't) care about.
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This is where I really want to see playtest results.
Yeah, my expectation is that you could trace once before drawing your weapon, and then Rune Singer + etched runes will get you through most fights.
After that you start having to mix in swap actions to get a free hand to "reload" your Runes in a very gunslinger-esque fashion. If that happens every once in a while, that's fine and Working as Designed. If it happens most fights it is unreasonable.
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Maybe there should be feature or feat that allows you to etch/trace a rune with a weapon's pointy end (sword) or as a stamp (hammer) or whatever other imaginative way a player comes up with.
We never got the Iron Brush weapon in this edition did we? Cause that would be perfect. (I mean, it's trash as a weapon, but would still be cool to use.)
I created a 4th-level playtest Rune Smith who fights with one hand free and the other hand holding a minor sturdy shield with a +1 striking shield boss: Virgil Tibbs, Playtest Rune Smith. I will see how that style performs.
He is a police detective and needs to capture hostile suspects alive if possible. Thus, he relies on weapons to deal nonlethal damage. He has both the shield boss and a mambele that he can draw in his free hand. I looked that the list of weapons with the nonlethal trait, and none seemed suitable, so he will have to put up with the -4 penalty instead.
I wish that ZOHK, RUNE OF HOMECOMING could be applied to objects. Then Virgil could etch zonk on his mambele and not worry about the weapon being stolen if he drops it to free his hand.
It can be applied to familiars, that may be useful to some scouting or item delivery missions.
Engraving Strike should support the sword and board playstyle fairly well, shouldn't it?
But it doesn't.
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I'm inclined to think there's an error somewhere tbh.
The shield support doesn't make a lot of sense if you always need a hand free.
"Just be unarmed" ignores that the class doesn't have very good unarmed support either.
Nor does it make any specific mechanical or thematic referencing to the idea of being stuck with a single one-handed weapon only, like the Swashbuckler or Thaumaturge are.
The idea of making choices between different options is nice, but the Runesmith to me feels less like it has a bunch of mutually exclusive options and more like there are a bunch of ideas that are all undersupported or don't come together properly.
The Fighter and Magus have obvious combat style choices, yeah, but those choices are both somewhat clearly delineated and don't break core class features in the process, so I don't think the analogy really works.
"just wear a gauntlet" or "just use a shield boss" are also options
Bad ones. Why do we have to juggle a g$& d%*n shield boss when Fighters and Maguses are doing just peachy
I'm inclined to think there's an error somewhere tbh.
Something is odd with the starcrossed mixture of themes. But for now, I will accept that the developers are experimenting with ideas, and the playtest will help resolve which ones go together.
The shield support doesn't make a lot of sense if you always need a hand free.
"Just be unarmed" ignores that the class doesn't have very good unarmed support either.
Nor does it make any specific mechanical or thematic referencing to the idea of being stuck with a single one-handed weapon only, like the Swashbuckler or Thaumaturge are.
Shield Block and medium armor proficiency imply that the Runesmith will be a frequent target of Strikes, up close and personal with their enemies. Most spellcasters prefer to be 30 feet away from their enemies. The melee-range magic-caster could be a niche that the developers are aiming for. I could envision a Runesmith on the battlefield, their armor and shield ablaze with active runes, but their non-shield hand holds no weapon. Instead, that hand is slapping enemies with offensive runes as powerful as any weapon Strike.
But the manipulate trait on Trace Rune and the martial weapon proficiency suggest that my vision is probably wrong. The Runesmith would have to step back from melee to reapply runes to their weapons and armor, and then step forward to for rune-enhanced weapon Strikes the following turn. Oh wait, that won't work because both hands will be full with a shield and a weapon. The Runesmith would need John R.'s idea to operate that way:
Maybe there should be feature or feat that allows you to etch/trace a rune with a weapon's pointy end (sword) or as a stamp (hammer) or whatever other imaginative way a player comes up with.
The idea of making choices between different options is nice, but the Runesmith to me feels less like it has a bunch of mutually exclusive options and more like there are a bunch of ideas that are all undersupported or don't come together properly.
Another thread asks, Why No Subclasses. Perhaps subclasses could straighten out this tangle. Let me call the subclasses "Displays."
Martial Display You can trace runes with pointy objects. You may use a hand holding a melee piercing weapon rather than a free hand to Trace Runes.
Musical Display You trace runes more easily while chanting. When you Trace Rune, you may replace Manipulate trait with Auditory trait. The target of the rune does not need to hear the auditory chanting. [Also add an interaction with Rune-Singer feat]
Runedagger Display Your runes are solid energy in your hands. When you Trace Rune, you may have the rune appear as a dagger in your free hand. You may use it the same as a dagger. If you release it, it disappears. If you successfully Strike with it, then after damage dealing it converts into a rune afixed to the target, if appropriate. [Also add an interaction with Backup Runic Enhancement feat]
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Bad ones. Why do we have to juggle a g!+ d!+n shield boss when Fighters and Maguses are doing just peachy
Because they do other things.
You can mag dump damaging runes that do fine damage without any weapons, and therefore need to be protected from your foolish desire to use weapons.
You can prevent an enemy from running away from you or a party member without burning (at least) one action first, forcing casters/ranged enemies to either commit to a reactive strike, melee, or suffering a no save effective slow 1 (plus wasted stride/step).
You can spend an action to (with etching) gift multiple free Raise a Shield actions across the party with an AC bonus attached on top of triggering your offensive stuff you laid down that and the previous round.
Etc.
You can do 2H weapons or full sword and board, just forsake tracing runes without your once per fight Rune Singer and rely on your etched runes and basic strikes with nothing else going on. No one is compelling you to play smart. Rogues can use Greastswords, too.
All this unecessary melee angst aside, there's the entirely viable "I'm an infinite ranged 2d6/rank ranged focus spell equivalent blaster" option, too. You can just two action trace and detonate on someone every round in range. With Rune Singer and the rune of preservation you can pull off three ranged runes in two round once per fight. With Trace Trance at 6th you can always pull off three every two rounds and hold Rune Singer in reserve to save an action for a Stride or other action when you need it.
It's comparable to a somewhat action disadvantaged (except on your three per two round cycles) Psychic with Amped Ignition/Frostbite (Ignition ranged damage and range, Frostbite fort save) but with no resource cost.
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All the class needs is a feat similar to Nimble Shield Hand that gives a free hand for Trace Runes for the shield hand.
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All the class needs is a feat similar to Nimble Shield Hand that gives a free hand for Trace Runes for the shield hand.
Thinking more about the Free Hand problem, what if there was a Rune you could etch on a weapon or shield that allowed you to Trace a Rune while holding it?
I think making that a Rune is more interesting than making it a Class Feat.
It would need an invoking effect, of course. I'm thinking something like giving someone a Free Action Escape Check with big bonuses. (Something very situational, because the point of the rune is not to invoke, but good enough that if that situation does come up that it tempts you to use it, and thematically related to freely moving/being unencumbered.)
Don't bucklers count as a free hand?
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Don't bucklers count as a free hand?
Yes, but people are finding it a depressing solution because it sort of mandates the +1 circumstance rune to get you back to par, effectively reducing your etched runes by 1 or mandating the Fortifying Knock feat just to have a normal shield effect, and the easily breakable nature of shield before you get a reinforcing rune means Runic Reprisal is less useful as an option.
Although if you're willing to forgo shield blocking in most cases Fortifying Knock, Runic Reprisal, and Transpose Etching as a three feat combo still lets you raise (an etched +2 buckler), free action trace a shock/fire rune, then transpose next round, saving you an action on the ranged trace while keeping your defenses up.
No the people are considering a depressing solution because they doesn't have enough Hardness and HP to use Shield Block reaction. That's the OP point.
Block with buckler means break or even destroy it in the probably first block that you do with it. About AC bonus, every single character can use a shield and rise it so it doesn't make difference here.
I think the best option is to use a shield, have no weapon, and put the whetstone rune on the fighter or someone else who is going to make attacks with weapons.
For me my build probably would be a pure no weapon rune Runesmith with a shield.
Let's be honest in current state do a Engraving Strike may improve your damage because can allow to Trace and Strike in same action but at same time you a Int key class so Strikes won't be your best. Maybe probably is more safe and efficient to just Trace a rune without risk of failures and Invoke it!
Bad ones. Why do we have to juggle a g@$ d#+n shield boss when Fighters and Maguses are doing just peachy
Probably because right now we do more damage than both.
That said, it's unintuitive and fairly limiting.
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Howl of the wild introduced grafts for unarmed attacks, and and shield bosses/spiked shields are only one die size smaller than the highest damage 1h weapon.
Not having a 2h option is almost certainly intentional; you get some pretty high damage spikes through invoked rune blasting; and that says nothing to the potential damage you're dealing through ally buffing.
Howl of the wild introduced grafts for unarmed attacks, and and shield bosses/spiked shields are only one die size smaller than the highest damage 1h weapon.
Not having a 2h option is almost certainly intentional; you get some pretty high damage spikes through invoked rune blasting; and that says nothing to the potential damage you're dealing through ally buffing.
If it's intentional, then why is there a Runesmith pictured with a Maul?
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It's a reuse just to illustrate the document. They are images are from other books they just take them to illustrate some characters full of runes.
Designers never created full colored pictures for playtest documents they utilizes already existing images from other books not fully related to proposed class or they put sketches instead.
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If it's intentional, then why is there a Runesmith pictured with a Maul?Howl of the wild introduced grafts for unarmed attacks, and and shield bosses/spiked shields are only one die size smaller than the highest damage 1h weapon.
Not having a 2h option is almost certainly intentional; you get some pretty high damage spikes through invoked rune blasting; and that says nothing to the potential damage you're dealing through ally buffing.
Why is the Battle Oracle pictured with armor that it doesn't have the proficiency to wear? ;)
I don't think you can take the art to convey intention in a playtest.
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If it's intentional, then why is there a Runesmith pictured with a Maul?Howl of the wild introduced grafts for unarmed attacks, and and shield bosses/spiked shields are only one die size smaller than the highest damage 1h weapon.
Not having a 2h option is almost certainly intentional; you get some pretty high damage spikes through invoked rune blasting; and that says nothing to the potential damage you're dealing through ally buffing.
“Go find some art slop from our existing catalog that features a warrior and some glowing runes. I know 99.9% of runes stuff is spellcasting, just use anything you can find. I’ll be impressed if you can find more than two.”
It's a reuse just to illustrate the document. They are images are from other books they just take them to illustrate some characters full of runes.
Designers never created full colored pictures for playtest documents they utilizes already existing images from other books not fully related to proposed class or they put sketches instead.
Ok, I didn't know :)
Also aren't shields considered free hand till you raised them? At leasrt that is what my DM told me so I dunno and if you want to do something silly just use a gauntlet for your weapon or I know many, may tables use Free-Archetype rules just grab Buckler Expertise from Swashbuckler boom, +3 AC Buckler.
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Buckler have the free hand trait
Other shields you can release your hand from and it doesn't get dropped because it's strapped, but then you need an interact action to reequip it. So normal shields in use are not free hand.
Guys the shield bow is where it is at. Then add a bladed gauntlet in blunt mode with the splash damage rune for fun and blazons of shared power. Now you have a Dex forward build with a shield, a 1H+ ranged option, and a rune upgraded 1d6 finesse free hand option.
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Despite the name, a shield bow isn't a shield. It's just a weapon with the parry trait.
So you can't use shield block with it or trace shield runes on it.