Should the Solarian focus more on melee?


Solarian Class Discussion


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Let's leave aside mechanical specifics for a moment. This is a pure "vibes" post.

This might be the eternal melee martial player in me talking, I can't help but feel that this Solarian, the Solar Knight, the sole (sort of) melee class in the game currently, is really not "melee" enough.

I would love it if I had only my weapon and maybe the armor-ish thingy. And then my class would be specifically allow me to turbo-melee some fools.

I mean what utter buffoon brings a gun to a lightsaber sword fight?

Yes, that would be an exception to the ranged meta part of "everybody has a gun". But I think having one exception that proves the rule would be ok?


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Yes, 100%. I won't rant about how the Solarian currently lacks the means to actually fight in melee or how they really shouldn't be forced to rely on their crappy backup ranged attack, but I will say that the Solarian is expressly designated as a "solar knight", with an entire sidebar describing at length how they're meant to fight in melee. The Solarian is intended to fight in melee, should fight in melee, and should have the appropriate tools to be able to fight in melee no matter the circumstances -- if they find themselves unable to do this in Starfinder, something's wrong.


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That is because they forgot several things for the Solar Flare. As I keep on saying, drop their Solar Weapon Proficiency, make it Legendary Class DC at level 19, make it so they use Class DC -10 for attack rolls similar to the Kineticist and let the Solarian Crystal effect both Solar Weapon & Solar Flare, the MAD problem is solved and your DC abilities become way stronger. Then we need to worry about getting into melee.

Solar Rush might need to be a class feature butt hat is for a different topic.


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Thing is, I wouldn't want the Flare to be an automatic part of my character even if it was actually good. Not because of complexity, but because it is completely superfluous to what I want from the Solarian. Which is basically a dude with a lightsaber and cool sun powers. And therefore just a distraction.


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Right now, the developers are going to have a really, really hard time making everyone happy with both ranged and melee options as built in, as one is going to end up being mechanically superior to the other. All other things being equal (damage, to-hit, special effects), then ranged is going to be better. It is the same reason reach is worth 2 trait picks.

How many traits is a 30 or 60 foot reach worth (i.e. Operative with hair trigger comes to mind. :) )?

So they need to make Solar Flare slightly worse in order to make Solar Weapon mechanically worthwhile, but there's a lower limit in the form of purchased ranged weapons.

I personally think the Solar Manifestations should be split, like in 1st edition. You pick one manifestation, and that is it. You either get Solar Weapon, Solar Flare, or Solar Shield (i.e. combined Nimbus/Shield).

Then you have very clearly defined expectations. Solar Weapon is melee focused with some purchased ranged weapon as backup. It should come with a strong gap closer action which is just default class ability, not a feat choice. Not being a feat choice means it can be class defining without being taken for some other class with dedication feats.

Solar Flare is ranged focused, with some purchased melee weapon as backup. It can then have all the features of an actual ranged weapon (range increments, traits, etc). It should also get a default class ability, possibly just using Athletics at the same range as the Solar Flare (perhaps with Gravition allowing trip, reposition, and grapple, while Solar allows trip, shove, and disarm).

Solar Shield becomes defensive and support focused, with a purchased melee weapon as primary. With the idea of things like reflected ranged attacks or concealment to nearby allies against ranged attacks, encouraging enemies to close with the Solar Shield Solarian rather than the other way around. Imagine sharing the AC bonus and reaction to block damage with nearby allies as a built in action. The Solarian becomes mobile cover for the team.

This would make the design space much easier to work with. I think rather than trying to balance 3 or 4 manifestations (if you take the Solar Shield feat) against each, sometimes fighting for the same reaction (Nimbus vs Shield Block), that just making each one really worthwhile to use on its own is going to make the class standout in player's minds.

Take for example how the individual shield block and nimbus reactions are going to have to be balanced individually, when there's a single feat to combine them to be used at the same time. Do they balance it so each reaction is worthwhile on its own, or do they balance it so the combine reaction isn't too strong? If they were a single reaction from the beginning (i.e. just Shield) you could make it a strong and memorable reaction from the start.

Anyways, such a separation I think would make the most people happy simultaneously. At the end of the day, I would personally like the Solarian to primarily have melee options, but a ranged sub-class isn't bad, and lets people who want the Kineticist ranged feel have that, while still making most players who pick it go down the offensive or defensive melee routes.


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I'm in agreement that Solar Flare should be optional, not part of the core kit. I think Pathfinder classes give good examples of how melee-centric classes can be allowed to opt into ranged combat, like a Monk picking Monastic Weaponry or a Barbarian picking Raging Thrower (these feats are also generally available at level 1), and I think the same could work for the Solarian. Without going into mechanical specifics, I feel Solar Flare and Solar Nimbus would be better-served as feats that let you forge solar guns and solar armor, which could hopefully let them feel a little less superficial than they do know. As for the core class, the most basic thing I want out of the Solarian is to be able to just get to an enemy quickly and wreck them in melee with my solar weapon, all while feeling cool and flashy (or dark I guess, depending on your attunement). Everything else, including the exploding and the funky cosmic stuff, I think should build on that.


I don't see why both can't be on the class. There is a reason Kinetic blast is both melee and ranged so why can't the Solarian have both? It would make no sense to limit it down to either being a melee manifestation or a ranged when clearly a class from Pathfinder 2E can already manifest both with the same ability not to mention Weapon Infusion can change the blast to being a 100ft Range Increment which changes it from being 30/60 ft with optional melee to add strength. Maybe the Solar Flare/Solar shot should just be an action ability you can do?


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ElementalofCuteness wrote:
I don't see why both can't be on the class. There is a reason Kinetic blast is both melee and ranged so why can't the Solarian have both? It would make no sense to limit it down to either being a melee manifestation or a ranged when clearly a class from Pathfinder 2E can already manifest both with the same ability not to mention Weapon Infusion can change the blast to being a 100ft Range Increment which changes it from being 30/60 ft with optional melee to add strength. Maybe the Solar Flare/Solar shot should just be an action ability you can do?

You could design the class that way, but then it is not really a translation of a Starfinder 1st edition Solarian, it is a translation of a 2nd edition Pathfinder Kineticist. Those two classes play completely differently in combat, both in mechanics and cinematic flavor. You can balance it along the lines of Kineticist, but would you really call it a melee focused class at that point? If I had a new player ask me a recommendation for a melee class to play in Pathfinder 2e, I wouldn't recommend a Kineticist. I'd recommend a more traditional melee character like a Fighter.

In Starfinder, if someone says they want to play a light sword wielding melee character, I'd like to be able to recommend something that plays closer to Fighter (with some special effects) than a blaster Sorcerer or Kineticist.

When 1st edition Starfinder came out, my low level and mid-level combat experience my Solarian was all about good movement coupled with melee attacks, and cool special effects while doing other actions. It was also the forward scout (sidereal's +1d6 insight bonus was nice for stealth) and pilot for the party. I was never sitting behind cover taking pot shots or thrown weapons at targets, although I had those backup weapons on hand. I was way, way out front making attacks of opportunity and moving very fast from unexpected angles. I spent a lot of time on the ceiling, for example, since it didn't typically have difficult terrain.

So I think it is fair for people to express a desire for a melee centric playstyle with the tools to compliment that playstyle, instead of simply being handed the equivalent of a magic blaster character. They want the power budget or word count spent more towards the melee Fighter fantasy instead of the Sorcerer blaster fantasy.

I tend to think it is better to have the class be good at its specialization. In this case specifically, getting into melee range, while surviving and dealing damage there. It can still have the backup plan for ranged be handled by equipment. Nothing prevents a Solarian from picking up a thrown weapon or a laser rifle. Since that is true, I don't want the class word count being put towards simply replicating the abilities of a thrown weapon or laser rifle.

And finally, back to my original point, if you do in fact put the class power budget/word count towards something better than a thrown weapon or laser rifle, why would you want to use the Solar Weapon instead of this new Kineticist blast? Why wouldn't you just stay with the team in cover and shoot the enemies from range and wait for them to come to you?

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