Which online character builder?

[Elnab]

I'm confused. Demiplane has the character builder in closed beta. Pathbuilder 2e is a inexpensive tool. Hero Lab online is a stable product for many years.
Which one is "more official" supported by Paizo and is the tool for many years to come? I don't mind to buy the books I own a second time. But not a thirth of fourth time.

[Ascalaphus]

I think Pathbuilder has a bright future. It's been consistent in quality for several years now. The speed at which new books are added seems to have increased, I wouldn't be surprised if Paizo allows them some early access so they can roll stuff out at book release date. It's not "official" (made at the orders of Paizo), but they cleanly work within the rules of the licenses Paizo uses so they're not at risk of arbitrarily getting shut down.

So for me, this is the tool I'm going to stick with.

[Dancing Wind]

Elnab wrote:

Which one is "more official"

None of them are 'more official'. They are all 3rd party products that draw on Paizo intellectual property

Quote:

supported by Paizo

None of them are 'supported by Paizo'. They are all 3rd party products that draw on Paizo intellectual property.

Quote:

and is the tool for many years to come?

Impossible to predict which businesses will fail and which will flourish, especially small businesses that rely on one or two fans to create and maintain them.

[Raze Le'Roof]

Pathbuilder definitely my favorite. Only downside is they dont have a good way to use it on an iPhone, but especially if you use an Android tablet, I find the layout and drill-downs to get info like Skill Actions wonderful at the table. The developer also is frequently/quickly adding both new content as books come out and new features.

Of all of them, seems like Demiplane is going to be the most "official" because they have an agreement with Paizo and can use things like Art and Pathfinder IP that the others can't at this stage, but seems like that will come at a premium per-book purchase price more along the model of DND Beyond. Their character builder is super early right now, so it's hard to say if the Art plus any other features like GMs being able to enroll PCs in a campaign and quickly make rolls will be worth the extra price.

Though Pathbuilder just added GM Mode to their Beta release, so...

[graystone]

The only one I use is Pathbuilder, so it's the only one I can recommend: I'm not going to PAY for a builder when Pathbuilder is going to give me a great one for free.

[roquepo]

I paid for Pathbuilder because I started feeling bad with how much I use it. I think it is my most used app by a long shot.

[ottdmk]

I paid for the Pathbuilder Android app. Worth every penny, imho. Impressed that it's a one-person shop.

[Claxon]

I had a Herolab subscription but the monthly subscription fee and having to buy each book sucked. The quality of the product is top notch, but it's just more than I cared to continually pay.

Pathbuilder was a one time $5 payment for the android app, and even then it was only necessary to pay to get the Animal Companion/Familiar support (IIRC). Everything is supported on the free version. However, if you want to have it in the web browser version you will need to pay another $5. Of course $10 total is cheap compared to basically all the other options.

It's not as polished as Herolab, but for the price point it's better IMO.

[The Gleeful Grognard]

I don't like the herolab model for pricing, and while it has gotten better since I stopped using it... it is still clunky and can result in incorrect characters more easily than pathbuilder can (mainly through retraining and creating characters at a higher level)

(I had been using herolab for years, have all released pf1e material on classic and all launch pf2e purchases... HLO really does have a poor pricing structure given the glacial progress)

Demiplane is a fair way from being ready for mass consumption, but has a more fair pricing model and i have high hopes for it in the long run.

Pathbuilder is what I recommend my players use and does its job well for a free product. I will be telling my players to use demiplane and to support Paizo by purchasing books on it when it is able to handle what pathbuilder can though.

[Ravingdork]

Paizo really needs to partner with Path under.

It's just that good. Wouldn't recommend anything else.

[Berhagen]

Pathbuilder - it is great, up-to-date, mostly free (well except companions and dual class), cheap even in you buy it and no need to subscribe of pay for additional sources.

No choice….

[Corvo Spiritwind]

Ravingdork wrote:

Paizo really needs to partner with Path under.

It's just that good. Wouldn't recommend anything else.

Assuming it meant to say Pathbuilder?

[Ravingdork]

Corvo Spiritwind wrote:

Ravingdork wrote:

Paizo really needs to partner with Path under.

It's just that good. Wouldn't recommend anything else.

Assuming it meant to say Pathbuilder?

Yes. Stupid auto"correct."

[BretI]

Raze Le'Roof wrote:

Of all of them, seems like Demiplane is going to be the most "official" because they have an agreement with Paizo and can use things like Art and Pathfinder IP that the others can't at this stage,

WolfLair also has an agreement with Paizo. The two may have different licensing agreements, but I don’t think either is more official than the other. I don’t think either counts as owning the books for using in Org Play.

I recently tried HLO. I have the older HeroLab classics and it works great. I find the interface in HLO cumbersome. Trying to add journal entries is especially cumbersome. Even picking feats is less smooth than it was in HeroLab Classic. I don’t like it, which means I am going to allow my subscription to lapse and not bother to get it for Starfinder.

I have tried the web interface for Pathbuilder and it seems reasonable. I like that they have uncommon and rare access something where you have to select it to see those options. If I had an Android phone or tablet, I would probably experiment with it more.

Right now, I’m just using a Google doc to make my SFS and PF2 characters.

[Lucerious]

I use Wanderer’s Guide. It’s free even with optional rules like free archetype and is updated regularly. It also works with iPhones and other mobile devices.
https://wanderersguide.app/

Sorry, I don’t know how to link.

[Pixel Popper]

https://wanderersguide.app

[WatersLethe]

Hero Lab lost me after I went all in on everything for Starfinder and Pathfinder 1 and 2, and I am not shy about how bitter I am about it. They don't keep promises, don't innovate, and act like they're owed your money just for existing.

Pathbuilder is better than Hero Lab in every way, including usability, Pathbuilder actually supports 3rd party content.

[loki.the.mischievous]

HeroLab online lost my support after 13 years and hundreds of dollars of content purchases, licensing, and monthly fees as well as having been a beta tester for their new offerings. Even though purchasing the content on HeroLab will give you a free copy of the .pdf in your Paizo digital account (which then does count toward OP ownership rules), I have to agree about the promises not being kept, lack of innovation, and the lack of support. When you submit a bug report, it's still open a year later, no one gets back to you, and then the owner whines about the fact they're a small shop, asks you how you'd do it differently and you provide detailed steps on how you'd do it, also indicating a timeline where you'd like to see at least some steps being taken to correct issues and that comes and goes without action, you realize you're on the Titanic and it hit the iceberg.

[Conscious Meat]

Regarding buying the books multiple times, at least Demiplane does support 'Paizo Connect'; so, if you already own the Paizo PDFs you can get a discount on the Demiplane version, and if you buy the Demiplane version first you'll be granted the PDF on Paizo. And that, in turn, will sync with FoundryVTT and Fantasy Grounds for discounts on their versions, if you use either of those VTTs (but not Roll20 anymore...).

But as for a character builder, Pathbuilder's great. If the players don't own the books but the GM has a specific set of allowed books, the sources list can be configured precisely down to the individual book without the players needing to own themselves and without needing to go check e.g. AoN. They can plan builds for multiple levels if they dare, etc. Free/cheap, well-organized, what's not to like?

And for the VTT users, the ability to export the character data in JSON form is handy; at least, there's importers available for both FoundryVTT and FGU.