Hello, all, hoping someone with better knowledge of that tight 2E math can help me out.
I have a level 2 pixie inventor (construct companion) who's just multiclassed into gunslinger (sniper way). The intent is to ride around on my ranged focused construct companion, using a tripod to offset my 8 Strength, and pick up Construct Shell and the sniper special reload at level 10. Is the fatal trait on the arquebus sufficient incentive to go from the d10 of the harmona gun to the arquebus's d8? I have a 16 Dexterity at current, and plan to boost it until the level 20 bump.
In terms of party makeup that might impact enemy ACs, we have a kobold monk who's Strength and Charisma based, using the Dragon Style tree. We also have a wild druid and an unseen hand psychic, though I'm not sure how those would figure into the equation.
The visuals of using a tripod while mounted is amusing. But I don't see anything in the rules that forbids it.
You can't benefit from flanking with a ranged weapon, but you can still benefit from flat-footed as long as you can get it some other way. With monk, perhaps Grabbed by the monk or psychic (Distant Grasp?)
For damage, d8 has an average damage of 4.5 on a hit. d10 has 5.5. d12 has 6.5. Generally if you are fighting something where you are needing to squeeze every last drop of damage out, it is something a level or three higher than you - which means needing at least an 11 or 12 on the d20 in order to hit and only crit on a nat-20.
So - running the numbers assuming you need a 12 to hit, a 20 to crit. Also running for each of the tiers of striking runes.
8 results of the d20 are a hit (12 - 19). So 40%. 5% chance of crit.
1d8 deadly d12 arquebus: 4.5 x .40 = 1.8; 6.5x2 x .05 = .65 => 2.45
1d10 harmona gun: 5.5 x .40 = 2.2; 5.5x2 x .05 = .55 => 2.75
2d8 deadly d12 arquebus: 4.5x2 x .4 = 3.6; 6.5x5 x .05 = 1.625 => 5.225
2d10 harmona gun: 5.5x2 x .40 = 4.4; 5.5x4 x .05 = 1.1 => 5.5
3d8 deadly d12 arquebus: 4.5x3 x .4 = 5.4; 6.5x7 x .05 = 2.275 => 7.675
3d10 harmona gun: 5.5x3 x .40 = 6.6; 5.5x6 x .05 = 1.65 => 8.25
So yeah. The harmona gun does slightly more damage generally. But when the arquebus crits, it will really hurt.
2d12 arquebus crit => 6.6x5 => 33
2d10 harmona gun crit => 5.5x4 => 22
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As far as I know setting up a tripod locks your gun in that square until you use an action to retrieve it, making it incompatible with movement in general.
As you aren't a gunslinger or a fighter, fatal isn't worth it. Even moreso because you are an inventor with an accuracy penalty in certain level ranges.
This is absolute worst case for the arequebus. Deadly fights often aren't just against a +3 with high armor. The more you crit he better the arquebus does.
Well, in the APs that I have been in, it is fairly standard for my non-fighter character to need to roll a 12 to hit. Hitting on a 10 is the exception - not the normal.
But yes, if you are only needing to roll an 8 in order to hit and will therefore crit on an 18+ roll, then the balance shifts to the weapon with fatal.
I have a hard time convincing myself to use fatal weapons without legendary proficiency, which is a shame because a lot of classes would be cool with a gun. Especially the Thaumaturge and Inventor, who are often another point behind the curve.
The visuals of using a tripod while mounted is amusing. But I don't see anything in the rules that forbids it.
*pile of math*
So yeah. The harmona gun does slightly more damage generally. But when the arquebus crits, it will really hurt.
That was my instinct. Playing around with fatal weapons is all well and good when you're a fighter or gunslinger (or the paladin frilled iruxi teamed up with a maneuver monk and fear-focused occult sorcerer), but that d10 is probably more consistent unless dealing with lots of minions.
Yes, the tripod ruling was edge, but it says:"you must retrieve the tripod with a single
Interact action before you can move the firearm to a
different position"
Emphasis on the "you", there. From a rules perspective, to rule otherwise suggests that the tripod and gun becomes an immovable fixture of the landscape, and if you placed it on say, a ship, it would slide off when the ship moved. Since the portable weapon mount entry talks about them being mounted on ships, this clearly isn't the case.
On a semi-related note, I know that in PF2's rules the size of a weapon doesn't change the damage. Any thoughts on justifications for a Tiny harmona gun dealing the same damage as one an order of magnitude it's size that won't make my head explode?
I keep imagining a melixie riding an elephant gun like it was a cruise missile. To be fair, pulling the trigger on that would be a way to unlock flight a *lot* earlier than level 17.
On a semi-related note, I know that in PF2's rules the size of a weapon doesn't change the damage. Any thoughts on justifications for a Tiny harmona gun dealing the same damage as one an order of magnitude it's size that won't make my head explode?
Not anything satisfyingly scientifc, no. Damage amounts are just a game construct at the end of the day.
The choice to remove both the damage adjustments and the AC/attack bonus change because of size was the balance point that the game designers chose.
On a semi-related note, I know that in PF2's rules the size of a weapon doesn't change the damage. Any thoughts on justifications for a Tiny harmona gun dealing the same damage as one an order of magnitude it's size that won't make my head explode?Not anything satisfyingly scientifc, no. Damage amounts are just a game construct at the end of the day.
The choice to remove both the damage adjustments and the AC/attack bonus change because of size was the balance point that the game designers chose.
Yeah, I hear that. The 2E maxim seems to be to always prioritize mechanical balance over realism. I think it was a wise decision, since the level of tactical play it provides has spoiled me for nearly every other system out there, but there are bits where you just have to close your eyes and try not to think about how your skeleton character just died by drowning due to all the poison weakening their muscles too much to swim.