What can a Simulacrum do?


Rules Discussion


The text of the ritual says that a Simulacrum lack "special abilities", but I can't find a strict definition of what a "special ability" is...

They give the example of a Dragon Simulacrum, whose breath attack is a mere illusion with no effect...

But, what about a Wyvern's venom? It is listed as merely part of the damage of their stinger attack...

Do their claws and fangs work normally?

What about flight? Can you use a Simulacrum as flying mount?

What about proficiencies? Can a Simulacrum use a bow or swing a sword just like the original?

Can they cook or craft?

Can they make skill checks? Like, if you are doing a ritual, can you use a group of Simulacrum as assistants, and have them make the secondary Nature, Arcane, Occultism, Religion...etc., checks...?

Thank you in advance.


Dagnew wrote:
What about flight? Can you use a Simulacrum as flying mount?

The Mount ability is specifically called out as a special ability.

As to other abilities, most everything is one it seems: Special Abilities
Source Core Rulebook pg. 33
"Any other entries in the sidebar represent abilities, senses, and other qualities all members of the ancestry manifest. These are omitted for ancestries with no special rules."


First of all, I'd just like to point out that the main purpose of simulacrum is to perfectly replicate someone and to deceive, so those other interactions shouldn't really be as important. With that in mind, I'm not surprised Paizo didn't mention the exact details of how all that works, since as long as it can convince others that it's doing them, like how the dragon's breath appears to work but everyone crit succeeds, it's done its job.

With that out of the way, how I would personally run it is as follows:
1. As a general rule I'd take a 4th level creature with similar features as the target and use it as a base for the stats of the simulacrum, ignoring anything past its resistances and weaknesses in the first section, and its standard attack actions in the main body of the stat-block. This is in no way clearly how it's done, so expect quite a bit of table variation on this.
2. A simulacrum is a 4th level creature, so no, it can't use the exact statistics of anything from the statblock of a wyvern, regardless of whether it's a special ability or not. Though, it can certainly appear to use them. If it could use the base stats for the target's attacks, then that means a small group getting their hands on a single drop of blood from a powerful creature on the black market or something instantly becomes insanely powerful.
3. I would allow a simulacrum to function as a flying mount, since flight isn't listed as an ability or action, but rather as a movement option. That being said, this is definitely an "ask the GM" kind of thing, since flight early on can really change how a campaign plays out, so there are definitely reasons to say it doesn't work.
4. For most of the other questions (proficiencies, cooking, etc.), it's going to depend on how exactly the GM decides its stat-block. See #1 for how I personally would do it.
5. It wouldn't be able to be your assistant in rituals, as it has the minion trait without something like independent familiar, so you couldn't both focus on the ritual all day and focus on making sure they're doing the right thing for the ritual all day. Though, if you're not involved in the second ritual for some reason, then perhaps you could spend that day overseeing the simulacrum and getting them to be involved in the ritual instead.

All that being said, don't be surprised if a GM just looks at the ability and is like "Yeah, the purpose of this is to impersonate someone. You're not attacking with it. You're not mounting it. If you wanted to do that, then try and tame an animal or something"
I think that's a perfectly reasonable interpretation as well.


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This is also probably why the ritual is Rare instead of just Uncommon. Because it is not very useful in many campaigns, but is almost overpowered in some niche settings. Add to that that the description and rules for it are very vague and require a lot of interpretation and adjudication from the GM and the rest of the table.


breithauptclan wrote:
This is also probably why the ritual is Rare instead of just Uncommon. Because it is not very useful in many campaigns, but is almost overpowered in some niche settings. Add to that that the description and rules for it are very vague and require a lot of interpretation and adjudication from the GM and the rest of the table.

A very good point indeed. If this is in a campaign, then the GM specifically put it in the campaign, and probably has an idea of how they think it should work / how they want it to work.


Aw3som3-117 wrote:

First of all, I'd just like to point out that the main purpose of simulacrum is to perfectly replicate someone and to deceive, so those other interactions shouldn't really be as important. With that in mind, I'm not surprised Paizo didn't mention the exact details of how all that works, since as long as it can convince others that it's doing them, like how the dragon's breath appears to work but everyone crit succeeds, it's done its job.

With that out of the way, how I would personally run it is as follows:
1. As a general rule I'd take a 4th level creature with similar features as the target and use it as a base for the stats of the simulacrum, ignoring anything past its resistances and weaknesses in the first section, and its standard attack actions in the main body of the stat-block. This is in no way clearly how it's done, so expect quite a bit of table variation on this.
2. A simulacrum is a 4th level creature, so no, it can't use the exact statistics of anything from the statblock of a wyvern, regardless of whether it's a special ability or not. Though, it can certainly appear to use them. If it could use the base stats for the target's attacks, then that means a small group getting their hands on a single drop of blood from a powerful creature on the black market or something instantly becomes insanely powerful.
3. I would allow a simulacrum to function as a flying mount, since flight isn't listed as an ability or action, but rather as a movement option. That being said, this is definitely an "ask the GM" kind of thing, since flight early on can really change how a campaign plays out, so there are definitely reasons to say it doesn't work.
4. For most of the other questions (proficiencies, cooking, etc.), it's going to depend on how exactly the GM decides its stat-block. See #1 for how I personally would do it.

Thank you.

But let focus on 4th or lower level creatures, which can be copied without changing their level...

For example:

A NPC Dancer.
A NPC Barkeep.
A NPC Farmer.
A NPC Librarian.
A NPC Inkeeper.
A NPC Mage for Hire.
A NPC Navigator.
A Drow Rogue.

Technically speaking, you only remove "special abilities" and leave everything else...

I guess their special abilities may be:

The Dancer's Fascinating Dance.
The Barkeep's Bar Brawler and Barkeep's Advice.
The Inkeeper's Font of Gossip.
The Librarian's Methodical Research.
The Mage for Hire's Spellcasting.
The Navigator's Chart a Course and Navigator's Edge.
The Drow Rogue's Nimble Dodge, Innate Spells, Sneak Attack and Quick Draw.

What they could do:

Basic melee and ranged attacks.
Acrobatics, Athletic, Arcana, Deception, Diplomacy, Lore, Nature, Perfomance, Society, Stealth, Survival and Thievery checks.

Do you think this is right...?

Aw3som3-117 wrote:


5. It wouldn't be able to be your assistant in rituals, as it has the minion trait without something like independent familiar, so you couldn't both focus on the ritual all...

Really? I thought that rule only applied to combat... I mean, if you can't order the Simulacrum something like "pretend you are the count's maid and learn everything you can", or "feed and care the horses while I am out" then what is it good for...? Not good for combat, can't be a spy, can't be a servant... its only use would be to be sent ahead as decoy if you suspect an ambush, and even then you would have to stay a few meters behind to give verbal orders every 6 seconds...


Dagnew wrote:
Aw3som3-117 wrote:
5. It wouldn't be able to be your assistant in rituals, as it has the minion trait without something like independent familiar, so you couldn't both focus on the ritual all...
Really? I thought that rule only applied to combat... I mean, if you can't order the Simulacrum something like "pretend you are the count's maid and learn everything you can", or "feed and care the horses while I am out" then what is it good for...? Not good for combat, can't be a spy, can't be a servant... its only use would be to be sent ahead as decoy if you suspect an ambush, and even then you would have to stay a few meters behind to give verbal orders every 6 seconds...

Right, sorry about not clarifying that that one was very much my opinion, as it sounded like I was stating a fact. You're right that the 6 seconds rule is only for combat, and it's up to the GM to decide how complicated of commands a minion can follow and for how long outside of encounter mode. IMO a ritual would be too hard, but others could easily see it differently.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
breithauptclan wrote:
This is also probably why the ritual is Rare instead of just Uncommon. ... the description and rules for it are very vague and require a lot of interpretation and adjudication from the GM and the rest of the table.

Doesn't seem all that vague to me. It literally points you to a table where you get your values.

A simulacrum will pretty much always have the following stats:

SIMULACRUM - CREATURE 4
[RARE], [MINION]; other traits as determined by base creature
Perception +11
Languages as base creature, limited by ritualist's knowledge
Skills as base creature, but modifiers are all +10, and Deception uses a unique modifier when determining base creature likeness
Str +3, Dex +3, Con +3, Int +3, Wis +3, Cha +3
AC 20; Fort +11, Ref +11, Will +11
HP 57-63
Speed as base creature
Melee as base creature +12, Damage as base creature
Ranged as melee above
Special Abilities none

A special ability would be just about anything found here, as well as any similar ability the GM adjudicates.


Ravingdork wrote:
breithauptclan wrote:
This is also probably why the ritual is Rare instead of just Uncommon. ... the description and rules for it are very vague and require a lot of interpretation and adjudication from the GM and the rest of the table.

Doesn't seem all that vague to me. It literally points you to a table where you get your values.

A simulacrum will pretty much always have the following stats:

SIMULACRUM - CREATURE 4
[RARE], [MINION]; other traits as determined by base creature
Perception +11
Languages as base creature, limited by ritualist's knowledge
Skills as base creature, but modifiers are all +10, and Deception uses a unique modifier when determining base creature likeness
Str +3, Dex +3, Con +3, Int +3, Wis +3, Cha +3
AC 20; Fort +11, Ref +11, Will +11
HP 57-63
Speed as base creature
Melee as base creature +12, Damage as base creature
Ranged as melee above
Special Abilities none

A special ability would be just about anything found here, as well as any similar ability the GM adjudicates.

Why adding "skills as base creature", if all its rolls are made with a +10 modifiers...? Do you mean that it should be considered as trained in the same skills as the base creature...?


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Dagnew wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
breithauptclan wrote:
This is also probably why the ritual is Rare instead of just Uncommon. ... the description and rules for it are very vague and require a lot of interpretation and adjudication from the GM and the rest of the table.

Doesn't seem all that vague to me. It literally points you to a table where you get your values.

A simulacrum will pretty much always have the following stats:

SIMULACRUM - CREATURE 4
[RARE], [MINION]; other traits as determined by base creature
Perception +11
Languages as base creature, limited by ritualist's knowledge
Skills as base creature, but modifiers are all +10, and Deception uses a unique modifier when determining base creature likeness
Str +3, Dex +3, Con +3, Int +3, Wis +3, Cha +3
AC 20; Fort +11, Ref +11, Will +11
HP 57-63
Speed as base creature
Melee as base creature +12, Damage as base creature
Ranged as melee above
Special Abilities none

A special ability would be just about anything found here, as well as any similar ability the GM adjudicates.

Why adding "skills as base creature", if all its rolls are made with a +10 modifiers...? Do you mean that it should be considered as trained in the same skills as the base creature...?

I would assume this means that the Simulacrum is trained or better in whatever skills the base creature is. For example:

A "Dancer" NPC has the following skills listed in it's stat block: Skills Acrobatics +8, Athletics +8, Diplomacy +7, Performance +13 (+15 when dancing), Stealth +6, Theater Lore +5

So the Simulacrum would have all of the same skills available for use with a +10 modifier, with the caveat that it has special rules for Deception to impersonate as noted.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
beowulf99 wrote:
Dagnew wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
breithauptclan wrote:
This is also probably why the ritual is Rare instead of just Uncommon. ... the description and rules for it are very vague and require a lot of interpretation and adjudication from the GM and the rest of the table.

Doesn't seem all that vague to me. It literally points you to a table where you get your values.

A simulacrum will pretty much always have the following stats:

[...]

A special ability would be just about anything found here, as well as any similar ability the GM adjudicates.

Why adding "skills as base creature", if all its rolls are made with a +10 modifiers...? Do you mean that it should be considered as trained in the same skills as the base creature...?

I would assume this means that the Simulacrum is trained or better in whatever skills the base creature is. For example:

A "Dancer" NPC has the following skills listed in it's stat block: Skills Acrobatics +8, Athletics +8, Diplomacy +7, Performance +13 (+15 when dancing), Stealth +6, Theater Lore +5

So the Simulacrum would have all of the same skills available for use with a +10 modifier, with the caveat that it has special rules for Deception to impersonate as noted.

Beowolf99 is correct. A dancer sim would have Acrobatics +10, Athletics +10, Diplomacy +10, Performance +10, Stealth +10, Theater Lore +10

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