Can a Hekatonkheires sustain Storm of Vengeance?


Rules Discussion


So the Hekatonkheires Titan has the following ability;

Demolish Veil Free Action Frequency once per month; Trigger The titan casts plane shift; Effect The titan arrives in a storm of shattered planar barriers. This has the effects of a 10th-level storm of vengeance.

It isn't technically casting Storm of Vengeance, but it has the effects of storm of vengeance - can it use an action to sustain those effects? Or do those effects happen without needing to be sustained? Or does it just do the first round of Storm of Vengeance?

Horizon Hunters

With all the other crazy abilities in it's kit, why would it want to?

Initiative starts right as the Titan teleports into the area, creating a MASSIVE 1,000-foot burst Burst Storm of Vengance. In it's first turn, it uses Hundred-Dimension Grasp to bring as many targets as it can within 50 feet of it, then Hundred-Handed Whirlwind to Strike each one. This can take out literal armies in one turn.


Well, whether or not it is an optimal choice is beside the point. Is it able to do it?

I can certainly see the ambiguity. It isn't casting the spell. It may be the intent to just use the already printed rules for storm of vengeance rather than having to rewrite the entire block of text. But it isn't actually the spell happening and so it can't be sustained (since it isn't a spell). That is probably closer to RAW.

On the other hand, it does say it has the effects of a storm of vengeance. That could include the ability to sustain the effect.

If I were running the game, I would probably allow it to sustain. Mostly because it is a 24th level creature - it can do whatever it wants.


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breithauptclan wrote:

Well, whether or not it is an optimal choice is beside the point. Is it able to do it?

I can certainly see the ambiguity. It isn't casting the spell. It may be the intent to just use the already printed rules for storm of vengeance rather than having to rewrite the entire block of text. But it isn't actually the spell happening and so it can't be sustained (since it isn't a spell). That is probably closer to RAW.

On the other hand, it does say it has the effects of a storm of vengeance. That could include the ability to sustain the effect.

If I were running the game, I would probably allow it to sustain. Mostly because it is a 24th level creature - it can do whatever it wants.

Most spells include the ability to Sustain or Dismiss the spell in its description or rulesblock, and in the latter case, you cannot do so unless the spell expressly allows you to. I would say that if it has those options in either area that yes, it is possible to do. Otherwise, no, you couldn't do so, and in some cases, even if you could, there would be no benefit in doing so, which defeats the entire purpose.


breithauptclan wrote:
Well, whether or not it is an optimal choice is beside the point. Is it able to do it?

I'd say no: it's a side effect of the plane shift spell and not a spell or independent effect. Outside of the trigger effect, appearing from a plane shift, it no longer exists IMO.

Horizon Hunters

graystone wrote:
breithauptclan wrote:
Well, whether or not it is an optimal choice is beside the point. Is it able to do it?
I'd say no: it's a side effect of the plane shift spell and not a spell or independent effect. Outside of the trigger effect, appearing from a plane shift, it no longer exists IMO.

I would go with this, but I would also think about if it would be cooler to have the cataclysm sustain itself each round, rolling randomly for which type of damage it does. If I decide it's more fun to keep it sustaining itself, I would definitely make sure the Titan can be targeted by the spell too.


graystone wrote:
I'd say no: it's a side effect of the plane shift spell and not a spell or independent effect. Outside of the trigger effect, appearing from a plane shift, it no longer exists IMO.

That does make sense. At least in the general sense.

In this specific case of a high CR enemy that seems to be designed to be a solo enemy boss fight, there is also the argument that it is an action economy boosting ability. Solo boss enemies often have things like that to let them get more bang for each action that they spend. A once-per-fight free action spell cast when the enemy first arrives seems like it would fall into that category.


It has 100 attacks of opportunity, I don't see a note saying that it can only use one attack of opportunity against each triggering event.

It isn't in the definition of monster AOO either

https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=1342

https://2e.aonprd.com/MonsterAbilities.aspx?ID=3

Horizon Hunters

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Dr A Gon wrote:

It has 100 attacks of opportunity, I don't see a note saying that it can only use one attack of opportunity against each triggering event.

It isn't in the definition of monster AOO either

https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=1342

https://2e.aonprd.com/MonsterAbilities.aspx?ID=3

Because that's a General Rule about Reactions, not a specific rule about Attacks of Opportunity.

https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=446


Limitation on Triggers
Source Core Rulebook pg. 462
"The triggers listed in the stat blocks of reactions and some free actions limit when you can use those actions. You can use only one action in response to a given trigger."

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