Multi-action Shield cantrip?

[Anarakius]

Hey, there's already precedent for multi-action spells but seems like they didn't want to fully commit, maybe because it would increase complexity for mainstream gamers.

Since PF2 came out I though the shield cantrip would be a good candidate for such mechanism, but I never found any brew related to it.

Anyway
1 action (V) = +1 circumstance bonus to AC until the start of your next turn
2 actions (VS) = +2 circumstance bonus to AC until the start of your next turn
3 actions (VSM) = +3 circumstance bonus to AC until the start of your next turn

So, what do you number crunching lawyers think of it. Yay? Yes, but? Nay, because? NO, TOO WILD?!

[Davido1000]

I've been thinking about something like this myself except the 3 action variant was a 5ft bubble of shield around you giving others inside it the bonus as well.

[HumbleGamer]

Way too strong imo ( especially while quickened ).

Leaving apart that nothing gives you +3 AC, the tradeoff of the shield cantrip is

+1 AC ( available even with the 2 hands occupied) and a strong DR.

Vs

+2 AC with a shield ( require 1 hand, which means no two hand weapons, and because so mostly no reach weapons) and golds invested into a sturdy one to perform a reaction.

Pretty balanced ( probably too strong even with a +1 AC).

Another user suggested a dedication a while ago( on this sub forum), which required the character to invest into feats to increase either the AC, the DR and similar.

Trading high level feats to improve an already strong cantrip "might" Be ok ( I say might because I didn't test it not even on a white room scenario), but giving it for free would make an excellent cantrip too strong.

Being able to wield a 2h weapon with the +2 qc from raise shield would probably be too much anyway ( even if you wouldn't use it it would be a possibility given for free. And we have also to remember that +1 AC is always better than some DR.)

[Davido1000]

HumbleGamer wrote:

Another user suggested a dedication a while ago( on this sub forum), which required the character to invest into feats to increase either the AC, the DR and similar.

Trading high level feats to improve an already strong cantrip "might" Be ok ( I say might because I didn't test it not even on a white room scenario), but giving it for free would make an excellent cantrip too strong.

That would be a prime feat line for an Abjurer archetype or class feats that go has magic school prereq.

[beowulf99]

Instead of messing with the AC bonus, which is tough to do in PF2's tight math, why not increase it's hardness when used to shield block? Each extra action could increase the hardness by 5, similar to heightening.

This doesn't feel overly broken, since no matter what the shield is lost for 10 minutes once you block with it.

This could give a caster a bit of last ditch defense against tougher foes in exchange for actions. The ability to get 15 hardness from a 1st level Shield is pretty neat. And it's fairly balanced action economy wise for a caster.

[Anarakius]

Davido1000 wrote:

I've been thinking about something like this myself except the 3 action variant was a 5ft bubble of shield around you giving others inside it the bonus as well.

That's actually pretty cool! Haven't thought about that one but I love the thematic around it, and it improves team work which is always fun.

HumbleGamer wrote:

Way too strong imo ( especially while quickened ).

(...)

Hmmm, yes, possibly.

Yeah, the 1 action is finely balanced with regular shield raise shield. But the 2-action VS for +2 is straight up mechanically worse, it's there for its magical flexibility and the occasional chance you want a further +1 instead of striding/stepping away, if that's ever better for your caster/gish. The 3 for 3 is the most strange since as you mention no other effect has it, but is it weird because of that (which is a perceived problem, not necessarily a real problem) or because of internal math?

Anyway, for the 2 and 3 action version you need somatic and material components, which means it requires a free hand and has the manipulate trait, for whatever that brings such as Attacks of Opportunity.

Thus it isn't that easy to +3 and wield a 2H, in fact you can only do it while quickened and you can't even attack, only grip, which would be almost totally useless. That said, it's good you brought this to attention since Somatic doesn't require you to lose your grip AFAIK, so the 2-2 action could allow some abuse. A quick fix should be to ask for a M component from the 2-action upward so it'd make interacting with a 2H nearly useless, which I guess is the right thing to do balance-wise.

Finally, requiring some sort of tax, such as a feat or something in-between like a perk bonus (a la dungeon couch perks system) should be valid and less WILD.

beowulf99 wrote:

Instead of messing with the AC bonus, which is tough to do in PF2's tight math, why not increase it's hardness when used to shield block? Each extra action could increase the hardness by 5, similar to heightening. (...)

That's also very valid and cool! My only problem with shield cantrip reaction is that it breaks it for 10 minutes and that hurts how I envision my fiction, which has mages and gishs flinging barriers during the whole fight. I get why they went that way, I just don't like it. I'll probably brew something along the lines of giving further shields castings during the same combat.