i used to like undying patron and the deathless so i wanted to know if there is anything similar in 2e
anything that cold be a undying patron on second edition like a group of heroes who swore to protect a kingdom even in death or similar?
for those who don't know deathless and undying are the polar opposite of undead channeling positive energy to stay alive and non-evil
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anything that cold be a undying patron on second edition like a group of heroes who swore to protect a kingdom even in death or similar?
In 1E there were twentieth-level capstones, like the wizard's Immortality.
There are some NPCs that come to mind, like Baba Yaga, Sorshen and Artokus Kirran. The first two are woukd be interesting patrons.
And these are all immmortal, not positive-energy undead.
i tried having a closer look around here is what i found so far
the devotion phantom is described as resisting the corruption of undeath by cling to life through a sense of duty and the help of a summoner that is similar to the undying court's need of the devotion of elves
ancestors also seem to have a similar role since they are dead but not really undead and can aid the living when called in some manner like oracle and (spirit instinct) barbarian
so phantom and ancestor so far seems close to the deathless concept is there any group in golarion that is strongly connected to them?
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so phantom and ancestor so far seems close to the deathless concept is there any group in golarion that is strongly connected to them?
Mediums that channel the legendary spirit of Nex could work. Nex as an warlock's undying patron could be interesting.
The Arclords of Nex is an organization for your PCs. They're basically his fanclub.
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If you want the "non-evil undead-like" in Pathfinder, those are the Duskwalkers. Which are previously deceased souls brought back via an agreement between powerful Psychopomps to reward people who deserved another shot.
They are fully alive though they did die and come back different.
If you want the "non-evil undead-like" in Pathfinder, those are the Duskwalkers. Which are previously deceased souls brought back via an agreement between powerful Psychopomps to reward people who deserved another shot.
They are fully alive though they did die and come back different.
its not so much a undead but a person who becomes undying in exchange for a eternal task like guarding a place or people and continues to do that for a indefinite amount of time
a human who reincarnated as a kami and retained his memories is kind of that since they protect a ward which could be a piece of land
now that i look at it druids might also be able to do that when they gain the ability to be sustained by nature so in that sense they are maintained by primal energy instead of positive energy
the living monolith seem to do it on 1e probably sustained by osirian gods it even has talking corpse like undying warlock
One thing that's true in the Pathfinder setting is that Pharasma and her people are not a fan of anybody sticking around *forever* regardless of how they manage to do it. Everybody gets a lifetime, it might be 10 years, it might be 10,000 years but they are all supposed to have expiration dates.
So "lives for an incredible amount of time" is something for singular individuals, not for large groups of people.
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If you want the "non-evil undead-like" in Pathfinder, those are the Duskwalkers. Which are previously deceased souls brought back via an agreement between powerful Psychopomps to reward people who deserved another shot.
They are fully alive though they did die and come back different.
its not so much a undead but a person who becomes undying in exchange for a eternal task like guarding a place or people and continues to do that for a indefinite amount of time
a human who reincarnated as a kami and retained his memories is kind of that since they protect a ward which could be a piece of land
now that i look at it druids might also be able to do that when they gain the ability to be sustained by nature so in that sense they are maintained by primal energy instead of positive energy
the living monolith seem to do it on 1e probably sustained by osirian gods it even has talking corpse like undying warlock
There’s the Divine Guardian template from P1.
One thing that's true in the Pathfinder setting is that Pharasma and her people are not a fan of anybody sticking around *forever* regardless of how they manage to do it. Everybody gets a lifetime, it might be 10 years, it might be 10,000 years but they are all supposed to have expiration dates.
So "lives for an incredible amount of time" is something for singular individuals, not for large groups of people.
well religion tends to be quite exaggerated so this might not be as absolute as you might think would have some very weird implications such as Azathoth or Yog-sothoth dying which is hard to believe so in unusual circumstances it might be possible for one Groetus is unlikely to get judged by Pharasma
i feel like its better not to include gods when talking about player option after all whatever you do you are gonna piss at least one of then and i really don't think that is how deities were meant to be used in game what as the last time your gm conjured a avatar to punish you?
also specially after prophecies stopped working nobody can truly tell your fate it could be to endlessly repair the dimension of time like the unbound petitioners so there is some wiggle room there and its besides the point
also specially after prophecies stopped working nobody can truly tell your fate it could be to endlessly repair the dimension of time like the unbound petitioners so there is some wiggle room there and its besides the point
Canonically, that lack of accurate prophecies is why Pharasma and her back up dancers are on edge lately. She used to not be terribly worried about "immortals", because she knew when and how they'd die anyways, but now they're sweating it.
You might not get an avatar sent after you, but a duskwalker assassin is absolutely on the table.
also specially after prophecies stopped working nobody can truly tell your fate it could be to endlessly repair the dimension of time like the unbound petitioners so there is some wiggle room there and its besides the pointCanonically, that lack of accurate prophecies is why Pharasma and her back up dancers are on edge lately. She used to not be terribly worried about "immortals", because she knew when and how they'd die anyways, but now they're sweating it.
You might not get an avatar sent after you, but a duskwalker assassin is absolutely on the table.
so what if she sends a duskwalker a psychopomb that is like asmodeus sending a thiefling or a devil because i freed a bunch of slaves its just another source of exp by this reasoning you should stop adventuring because you might piss off lamashtu killing monsters or you should seek undeath because urgathoa might curse you (gosh i just looked at her major curse that is horrible) or zyphus or charon etc...
see what i mean PC characters really shouldn't base their actions on what a deity commands because when you have so many deities you are bound to anger at least one and the opposition will likely get in the way just out of spite its generally how it goes with gods
if it was AO i could understand the concern but she is far from being a over-deity otherwise every undead and god of undeath would be dead so i don't see why should require special attention
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Pharasma is, in a sense, above the other gods because it's her responsibility that the whole system runs and keeps the universe from collapsing (for as long as this is possible). She has more leeway from the other gods in order to operate as a result.
Like if Pharasma is mad at Asmodeus, she could slow the supply of souls to the hells by indefinitely keeping them around as esoteric bureaucracy moves glacially. If Asmodeus is mad at Pharasma, what precisely can he do about it? This threat works less well against the inhabitants of Abbadon since they don't do anything productive with the souls they receive anyway (Urgathoa has literally no need of them.)
She doesn't do these sorts of things, because she's by nature fair and largely impartial, but she can. Suffice to say she has enough pull that "an entire population of people who can live indefinitely" is not the sort of thing that's going to be allowed to propagate, especially if it was created by some external source.
I think a lot of this is just answering the "any chance" part of your question. Paizo doesn't put out a whole lot of immortality, although PF1 certainly had some lying around. We aren't saying that it doesn't exist, just that it's not common.
If you just want Witch patrons who are immortal/long-lived...
Baba Yaga
Old-Mage Jatembe
Artokus (who uses alchemy rather than alchemy, so he wouldn't be a patron so much as an inspiration)
I think any of the most recent runelords would count
Nex
Positive energy being used to fuel "good undead" is a bit of a D&Dism. I wouldn't expect Paizo to print "undead but with positive energy", because it's just not how positive energy or undead work in Pathfinder.
As far as "heroes bound to defend a kingdom long after they should have died", that sounds like a fey bargain. Shyka the Many, Magdh, or The Lantern King could all strike that kind of arrangement in some form.
Pharasma is, in a sense, above the other gods because it's her responsibility that the whole system runs and keeps the universe from collapsing (for as long as this is possible). She has more leeway from the other gods in order to operate as a result.
Like if Pharasma is mad at Asmodeus, she could slow the supply of souls to the hells by indefinitely keeping them around as esoteric bureaucracy moves glacially. If Asmodeus is mad at Pharasma, what precisely can he do about it? This threat works less well against the inhabitants of Abbadon since they don't do anything productive with the souls they receive anyway (Urgathoa has literally no need of them.)
She doesn't do these sorts of things, because she's by nature fair and largely impartial, but she can. Suffice to say she has enough pull that "an entire population of people who can live indefinitely" is not the sort of thing that's going to be allowed to propagate, especially if it was created by some external source.
its not like undead creating things don't exist urgathoa the sahkil the nigthshades the daemons etc... if you are worried just worship yog sothoth even her would have a hard time messing with him
Yeah, there's inherently more immortality on the First World since that's kind of the default there (souls of first worlders don't enter the river of souls, they just reform into their original form or something like it after a time.) There is an obnoxious amount of positive energy there, so it's hard for "death as anything more than a minor inconvenience" to take root.
Heck, the reason Gnomes got exiled to the prime material was because they tried to smuggle a little bit of death onto the First World, as a novelty, and got exiled in an ironic punishment.
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The default assumption for Lost Omens is that undead are generally evil (some Ghosts and revenants being exceptions) and player characters are not undead.
By all means, you should do what works for your table, but it's difficult to think up good-aligned positive-energy but undead options for player characters. That's more an Eberron thing than a Lost Omens thing.
Yeah, there's inherently more immortality on the First World since that's kind of the default there (souls of first worlders don't enter the river of souls, they just reform into their original form or something like it after a time.) There is an obnoxious amount of positive energy there, so it's hard for "death as anything more than a minor inconvenience" to take root.
Heck, the reason Gnomes got exiled to the prime material was because they tried to smuggle a little bit of death onto the First World, as a novelty, and got exiled in an ironic punishment.
i looked at pf1 and there is a pretige class called Feysworn which kind of sounds like that and its not a bad idea
considering pharasma though i'm not so sure if i wanna commit to 2e AO was bad but that sounds far worse
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I just noticed the general lack of punctuation.
Archsage, is that you?
Yeah, there's inherently more immortality on the First World since that's kind of the default there (souls of first worlders don't enter the river of souls, they just reform into their original form or something like it after a time.) There is an obnoxious amount of positive energy there, so it's hard for "death as anything more than a minor inconvenience" to take root.
Heck, the reason Gnomes got exiled to the prime material was because they tried to smuggle a little bit of death onto the First World, as a novelty, and got exiled in an ironic punishment.
i looked at pf1 and there is a pretige class called Feysworn which kind of sounds like that and its not a bad idea
considering pharasma though i'm not so sure if i wanna commit to 2e AO was bad but that sounds far worse
AO? I have no idea what that is...
AO? I have no idea what that is...Yeah, there's inherently more immortality on the First World since that's kind of the default there (souls of first worlders don't enter the river of souls, they just reform into their original form or something like it after a time.) There is an obnoxious amount of positive energy there, so it's hard for "death as anything more than a minor inconvenience" to take root.
Heck, the reason Gnomes got exiled to the prime material was because they tried to smuggle a little bit of death onto the First World, as a novelty, and got exiled in an ironic punishment.
i looked at pf1 and there is a pretige class called Feysworn which kind of sounds like that and its not a bad idea
considering pharasma though i'm not so sure if i wanna commit to 2e AO was bad but that sounds far worse
Forgotten Realms dude.
He is apparently the inspector general of the Forgotten Realms pantheon.
Like Artokus Kirran literally came up with a (repeatable) way to indefinitely extend someone's life, and Pharasma's people were able to come to an agreement with him about it (things like only n doses per year, no one but you in Thuvia is allowed to take it, you pay for a new wing on the temple). I'm not sure they would do again if this came up now that prophecy is broken, but apparently things are still amicable between Kirran and his caseworker.
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Like Artokus Kirran literally came up with a (repeatable) way to indefinitely extend someone's life, and Pharasma's people were able to come to an agreement with him about it (things like only n doses per year, no one but you in Thuvia is allowed to take it, you pay for a new wing on the temple). I'm not sure they would do again if this came up now that prophecy is broken, but apparently things are still amicable between Kirran and his caseworker.
Was this in Lost Omens Legends?
Yep!
Also where I got the bit about "Team Pharasma is little high strung at the moment."
AO? I have no idea what that is...Yeah, there's inherently more immortality on the First World since that's kind of the default there (souls of first worlders don't enter the river of souls, they just reform into their original form or something like it after a time.) There is an obnoxious amount of positive energy there, so it's hard for "death as anything more than a minor inconvenience" to take root.
Heck, the reason Gnomes got exiled to the prime material was because they tried to smuggle a little bit of death onto the First World, as a novelty, and got exiled in an ironic punishment.
i looked at pf1 and there is a pretige class called Feysworn which kind of sounds like that and its not a bad idea
considering pharasma though i'm not so sure if i wanna commit to 2e AO was bad but that sounds far worse
he is basically the ultimate god in dnd who can easily kill any god with ease and some time his motivations are confusing making hims comes out as an d%$# but he never interferes with players so that is not a problem
i always used to say how can the men complain about gods fighting all the time when he could kill every evil creature without moving a finger?
i also think he should get rid of the wall of the faithless which can be terribly immoral for some children or infants but outside that he isn't evil
Pretty sure they quietly retconned the Wall of The Faithless out after the Mask of the Betrayer expansion for Neverwinter Nights 2 came out and a much greater number of people learned of it but I could be misremembering.
if i am not mistaken it was taken down once but put back in afterwards
Ah that blasted wall. One of the two big reasons why I'm not fond of the FR settings...