Eldritch Archer and Multiclass Spellcasting

[Ventnor]

Okay, let's say I want to be an Eldritch Archer that focuses more on the archery side of things. So I start as a Fighter, and take the following feats:

1.) Point Blank Shot
2.) Sorcerer Dedication
4.) Basic Sorcerer Spellcasting
6.) Cantrip Expansion
8.) Eldritch Archer Dedication
10.) Basic Eldritch Archer Spellcasting

So, the Eldritch Archer says, "If you already cast spells from spell slots, you learn one additional cantrip from that tradition. If you're a prepared caster, you can prepare this spell in addition to your usual cantrips per day; if you're a spontaneous caster, you add this cantrip to your spell repertoire." My fighter can cast spells from the spell slots he got from Basic Sorcerer Spellcasting, so the cantrip I get is added to the list of cantrips I've gotten from Sorcerer Dedication & Cantrip Expansion.

Where I'm kind of confused is with Basic Eldritch Archer spellcasting. It all comes down to whether the spell slots you're getting from this feat count as sorcerer spell slots or not. The Dedication implies that the spells you're getting are all being added to the Sorcerer repertoire the Fighter got from his multiclass feats, but the Spellcasting Archetype rules seem to indicate that the Fighter has a separate "Eldritch Archer" repertoire separate from his "Sorcerer" repertoire the moment he gets Basic Eldritch Archer Spellcasting.

At level 10, the Fighter has two level 1 spell slots, two 1st-level spells known, two level 2 spell slots, two 2nd-level spells known, two level 3 spell slots, two level 3 spells known, and two signature spells. The question becomes, are all these combined into one big repertoire, or are the spells he knows from the Sorcerer archetype and the Eldritch Archer archetype in different repertoires?

I hope I'm making sense here.

[Xenocrat]

I think you don’t take the Eldritch Archer spellcasting feats if you already have it elsewhere. They only work if you come in with no other magic.

[Ventnor]

Xenocrat wrote:

I think you don’t take the Eldritch Archer spellcasting feats if you already have it elsewhere. They only work if you come in with no other magic.

I don't find that a satisfying answer. There's no language restricting you from taking both Basic Sorcerer Spellcasting and Basic Eldritch Archer Spellcasting (and their higher-level variants), so I think it is important to know just how they interact with each other in case you want to build a character with a lot of multiclass spell slots.

[Xenocrat]

Ventnor wrote:

Xenocrat wrote:

I think you don’t take the Eldritch Archer spellcasting feats if you already have it elsewhere. They only work if you come in with no other magic.

I don't find that a satisfying answer. There's no language restricting you from taking both Basic Sorcerer Spellcasting and Basic Eldritch Archer Spellcasting (and their higher-level variants), so I think it is important to know just how they interact with each other in case you want to build a character with a lot of multiclass spell slots.

They don’t interact. One grants you something (basic archetype spellcasting in your existing tradition) that you already have. So you shouldn’t waste a feat on it.

[DarkFire82]

This does bring up an odd question:
If someone was to take Eldritch Archer dedication at 6th (let's say as a Fighter), and then takes Sorceror dedication at 9th (through human ancestry), would they not still be able to take Basic Sorceror Spellcasting?

It seems odd that this only restricts you one way. You can already have multiple of a single tradition (Sorceror Occult to Bard dedication).

- To be fair, I am a bit biased. I originally missed the sentence about already having spell slots. I originally thought the "If" at the beginning was just about granting access to the "Cast a Spell activity". My original plan was a Spellscale Kobold (Arcane) Warpriest Cleric (Divine) Bard Dedication (Occult) Eldritch Archer (Primal)... Luckily, I do have backup plans.

[Malikor]

Xenocrat wrote:

They don’t interact. One grants you something (basic archetype spellcasting in your existing tradition) that you already have. So you shouldn’t waste a feat on it.

Except that the benefits of the basic/expert/master spellcasting says it grants a spell slot of x level. Not, it grants you a spell slot of x level if you do not already have one.

[Jared Walter 356]

Malikor wrote:

Xenocrat wrote:

They don’t interact. One grants you something (basic archetype spellcasting in your existing tradition) that you already have. So you shouldn’t waste a feat on it.

Except that the benefits of the basic/expert/master spellcasting says it grants a spell slot of x level. Not, it grants you a spell slot of x level if you do not already have one.

It grants you an eldritch archer spell slot, not an extra sorcerer spell slot:

CR219:. All spell slots you gain from spellcasting archetypes have restrictions depending on the archetype; for instance, the bard archetype grants you spell slots you can use only to cast occult spells from your bard repertoire, even if you are a sorcerer with occult spells in your sorcerer repertoire.

[Temperans]

Yep you treat "Eldritch Archer" as if it were a class granting you spells. Thus the feat gives "Eldritch Archer Spell Slots" NOT "Sorcerer Spell Slots".

Its the reason why a caster might actually want to multiclass into another class. If you couldn't get any spell slots if you already had spells it would be incredibly bad for casters......

Wait a minute... Would Paizo see this thread and clarify it to nerf casters? Now I am really worried.

[Malikor]

Jared Walter 356 wrote:

CR219:. All spell slots you gain from spellcasting archetypes have restrictions depending on the archetype; for instance, the bard archetype grants you spell slots you can use only to cast occult spells from your bard repertoire, even if you are a sorcerer with occult spells in your sorcerer repertoire.

And there are two different 'restrictions' here.

The first condition is; You do not use spell slots: If this applies, you gain an eldritch spellcasting abilty, with its own spell dcs and attack. Taking the dedication's spellcasting feats adds spell slots to this spellcsating ability.

The second condition is: You do use spell slots: If this applied, you do not gain the eldritch spellcasting ability, as it adds the cantrip to your current spellcasting ability, and uses its saves and attacks. The cantrip is added to your spells know/and can cast it per day, increasing a prepared casters cantrips perday, or is added to a spontanious casters repertoire. You do not gain an eldritch archer spellcasting ability. In this case, there is no dedication spellcasting ability, but the dedication uses the previous spellcasting ability.

Now, there could be an argument that, since the spellcasting feat is "eldritch archer spellcasting" that the feat only applies to a eldritch archer that has its own separate spellcasting ability. However, there is nothing to imply this is the case. The requirement is having the dedication, not an eldritch archer spellcasting ability.

[Jared Walter 356]

Regardless these feats are eldritch archer feats, and therefore "your repertoire" means your "eldritch archer repertoire." and "spellslots" means "eldritch archer spellslots". Only the initial dedication calls out any other case, the subsequent feats contain no such language. They are even called "Basic Eldritch Archer Spellcasting"

As pointed out in the other thread, you can make a strong case that these feats do nothing if you already have spellcasting from another class,as you have no "chosen tradition" since you skipped that step.

RAI is pretty clearly intended for non-spellcasters becoming Eldritch Archer spellcasters.

As written,
If you had spellcasting from another class, you would add a cantrip to that class repertoire (if sorcerer) when you take the dedication. You would add spells to your eldrtich archer repertoire when you taken further spellcasting dedications, you would add lv 1, 2 etc, eldritch archer spellslots that could only be used with your eldritch archer repertoire. The side effect would be that you actually have no eldritch archer cantrip.

The only feat that calls out adding them to your sorcerer repertoire is the initial dedication feat. None of the spellcasting feats contain this language, so it doesn't apply and defaults to "eldritch archer repertoire."

Cast a spell activity is not tradition/class dependent, simply yes/no. The spells you can cast with a given spellslot are class specific, and cannot be mixed across classes.

[Kelseus]

LOL dude, you resurrected a year old thread to argue a point you already raised in your own thread. You've got your answer. It's clear you're the only one who reads it that way. Sorry we didn't give you the fodder you need to talk your GM into this.

[Malikor]

Except the original poster.