Reduce 2H Non-Piercing Accuracy

[Modest Proposals]

So, I’ve been trying to think of a way to reduce the dominance of d12 weapons.

Rule Proposal: Non-Piercing 2H Weapons are at -2 to hit when fighting adjacent to an ally or solid obstacle. Probably taking it too far, but I could also see it as a cumulative -1 instead. Additionally, instead of a general rule, I could see it as a weapon trait to limit the negative to the bigger d12 weapons.

Background: I was thinking about a David Gemmel book I read a few years back (Stormrider?), and they describe how the claymore causes the natives to fight as individuals because they have to stand so far apart versus the short swords allowing their enemy to fight side by side. I thought this could be a pretty good explanation for reduce accuracy of larger weapons being swung around when in many scenarios it just wouldn’t be possible.

[Fuzzypaws]

In real life, people fight a lot closer together than 5 foot spaces. The room to swing a large weapon is already there in the game.

They'd be better off bringing up the dice and abilities of other weapons than penalizing d12 weapons.

[RazarTuk]

Fuzzypaws wrote:

They'd be better off bringing up the dice and abilities of other weapons than penalizing d12 weapons.

TWF is a good example of where other weapons need buffed. In 1e, one-handed weapons were consistently weaker, like rapiers being 1d6, but greatswords being 2d6. But you could also grab a shortsword for your off-hand for another 1d6. If both attacks hit, you'd do 2d6 damage, same as the greatsword. You could argue whether or not this was actually equitable, since you need a full attack action for TWF, but not two-handed fighting, but overall, it's comparable.

Meanwhile in 2e, there are effectively no ways to get more than 3 attacks/turn. And you need to use an action to raise a shield. In other words, both potential benefits to wielding a smaller weapon... aren't. I'm not convinced there's any reason left to not grab a 2-handed weapon if given the chance.

[shroudb]

no.

what's your beef with d12 weapons to start with?

a d8 weapon gives effectively +2 AC which is huge, let alone 30-50% extra HP

a d10 weapon gives around d12 weapon damage or even more (depending on feats) due to traits

why do you think that d12 is somehow so superior that it needs nerfs?

[Kerx]

Fuzzypaws wrote:

They'd be better off bringing up the dice and abilities of other weapons than penalizing d12 weapons.

THIS.

d8s across the board right now seems to me to be pretty bad unless you want to use a shield which also seems like they shouldn't be worth it to me on just a straight up mathematical perspective. Ideally 33% lifetime Action economy for players craving an about 10% higher effective hp would be bad but when your 3rd swing is worthless ~90% of the time go hog wild. TWF is pretty dead right now so lets just pour one out for now I guess.

d6s are for rogues and they could honestly also be better since they get hard out-scaled by big boy magic weapon dice if you aren't specifically a rogue doing sneak attack damage 100% of the time (unrealistic if you also like being alive).

d4s are the punchline to some sort of joke but they're just so genuinely bad (in a system that adds damage dice for item progression) that I understand the setup for that joke is as much of a waste of time as reading their entries.

d10s look like they're in a pretty decent place when they have reach. The weapons granting you the privilege of having MAP apply on your swings after you attempt a moderately helpful maneuver seem kinda insulting, much rather get a bonus to doing the given maneuver with the weapon which is designed in a way that makes it easier with the weapon. Having a free hand necessary for things like trip make me mentally picture my character crouching, knees at 45 degree angles, to grab an orcish warrior's calves one-handed before attempting to topple him as opposed to the smooth sweep the leg I want to imagine (dex for trip when?).

[Ediwir]

Personally I think giving more weapon traits around could be a better way. I used to nerf greatswords back when they were 2d6, because that was ridiculous, but I have no qualms with them being a d12 weapon with barely any abilities.
Just make the lower dice weapon shine.

Why is the Dogslicer the only Backstab weapon? Give a rogue his dagger! Why is the Sawtooth Sabre the only Twin weapon? Give a ranger his scimit- no wait that's icky. But I'm sure there's options! A lot of traits have underused potential.