Hi All
Just looking to make sure I understand the new alchemist properly. It seems to be a combination of a prepared and a spontaneous caster with the Advanced alchemy being the prepared part and the quick alchemy being the spontaneous part.
So, to use an example, assume a 1st level alchemist with 18 INT and the Sample formula book on page 51. This should give me 5 resonance. I can do the following?
1) Use Advanced Alchemy during the daily prep step to use 3 resonance points to make 3 half batches of alchemy items that exist for 1 day (due to infused) which is typically 2 of each item per resonance.
so I could "prepare" 2 minor elixers of life, 2 alchemist fire bombs, and 2 acid flasks?
2) then I would have 2 resonance left to make items on the spot, the penalty being I only make one item and i have to use the item immediately?
3) I could also exceed my resonance for quick alchemy if I make the appropriate check(s)?
So this character would start the day with 2 healing potions, 4 bombs, and 2 flex spots?
I think i have this right, but it took me the last hour to go back and forth within the book.
Seems like an interesting class! Did the Alchemist in PF1 have limits for bombs? I can't remember, i played it a long time ago.
That all looks correct for as far as it goes. But there is a bit more.
4) Resonance is also the resource used for healing potions and other consumables, as well as the resource to equip and use magic items so that the class that used to be the best with magic items is now the worst.
5) Casters have scaling cantrips, which is a good thing, that do comparable or better damage than the bombs. The bombs are not at will like the cantrips. Yes an Acid Flask in an Alchemist's hands will do more Persistent damage than say the Acid Splash cantrip, though the latter adds spellcasting modifier to its damage later on, and yes it is hard to get rid of Persistent damage, but Persistent damage of the same type does not stack, so you are not going to want to throw a bunch of Acid Flasks at the same target, despite what some think the best alpha strike strategy is. As far as I can tell it takes 2 actions to use a Bomb, just like a Cantrip, one action to either Quick Alchemy it or Draw it, then the other to throw it. Also it seems it is a Strength Thrown Weapon Attack roll, which is important to remember when building your character. Either way at early levels you will maybe throw 6 bombs, if that, and then be out for the day, throwing even more means you are out of Resonance and cannot use consumable items like healing potions, magic items, or pretty much anything except ineffectually swinging with a weapon you didn't build for.
6) Advanced Alchemy and Quick Alchemy, the two features that let them craft in anything short of days both mention Common, and at no point do they say you can craft any higher rarity alchemical items. Also none of their class features work with the longer form of crafting that costs days and gold. The Formula Book specifies adding more Formula as you level but doesn't restrict what rarity, that said having Uncommon or rarer formula in your book still wouldn't let you craft them. At level 5 you get Mutagen Crafting, which lets you add Uncommon Mutagens to your Formula Book as you level, which uh might have not been necessary in the first place. But despite the name it doesn't actually let you craft Mutagens or other uncommon items. Also some features and feats are likely going to require a Mutagen to be Infused, which cannot be done with the normal time consuming crafting available to everyone.
7) The Double Mutagen feat at level 14 lets you combine two mutagens you drink, instead of having the first's benefits but not negatives go away. Except it requires two Mutagens you created with the Craft Mutagen feature. And the Craft Mutagen feature doesn't actually craft any Mutagens, despite the name, all it does is let you add them to your Formula book, if that. So as is this feat will actually never do anything.
8) The Fast Onset feat at 6th level lets it so when you drink an Elixir with the Infused trait you get the benefits immediately instead of waiting. Mutagens have the Elixir trait, and normally it would take anywhere from 3 rounds to a minute for them to become effective after drinking. Which makes them less than useful for combat except as a pre-combat buff. But the only way to get Infused on one is for you to craft it with Quick Alchemy or Advanced Alchemy, but as we already went over earlier you can't currently do that. So the feat is mostly worthless, as the main reason to use it would be Mutagens. I haven't gone and checked if any actual Common Elixirs have an Onset time.
9) The 12th level feat Extend Elixir has the same problem, it doubles the duration of any Elixir you drink with the Infused trait and a duration of 1 minute or longer. There might be common Elixirs with a duration of 1 minute or longer, haven't checked yet, but it will not work on Mutagens.
10) At 16th level there is Eternal Elixir which does something similar to the Extend Elixir, but permanent until you choose to make another Elixir permanent. Has the same issue of not working on Mutagens, or any other uncommon or rare Elixirs. So not sure exactly what it can work on.
11) Of course despite Mutagens being Elixirs there is a separate feat for Mutagens at 16th level. Persistent Mutagen lets you once per day, which means even if Double Mutagens worked you wouldn't be able to do it with both, make a Mutagen you drink with the Infused trait that you crafted last until you next make your Preparations. So basically a day. Of course as we have gone over before you cannot use any features to make them Infused so this actually does nothing. That said if it was possible to craft Mutagens and uncommon items with class features that Infuse them, then you could theoretically just use Eternal Elixir for straight up permanent mutation. Which brings all kinds of questions, unless you grab both feats to have both a non mutagen elixir and a mutagen up for long times. Not that it matters at the moment because you can't Infuse them yet.
12) Okay here is a big one. 20th level feat Craft Philosopher's Stone. This feat adds the formula of the Philosopher's Stone to your Formula Book. It does not specify being able to craft it with Quick Alchemy or Advanced Alchemy and it is an uncommon item. So that is out. But you can still craft it normally right? Well maybe not. It has no cost listed, so going to have trouble crafting it using the normal rules. Also the item itself says that an Alchemist with the Craft Philosopher's Stone feat can create a philosopher's stone once per month using Advanced Alchemy class feature. And that this is the only way to create a Philosopher's Stone. So you can make it? Except you can't craft uncommon items with Advanced Alchemy so. This will probably be ruled that you can create one, but it obviously needs some corrections somewhere.
13) Another 20th level feat is Perfect Mutation. This feat lets you not suffer a Mutagen's drawback if you are the one who crafted it. At the moment that means spending days and gold crafting a mutagen and not being effected by it. This would be better of course if you currently had a way to make Mutagens with Advanced Alchemy or Quick Alchemy.
14) Universal Empowerment is another 20th level feat. This feat lets you count any bomb or mutagen you use as if it was Infused and that you were the one who created it. It also allows you to count as if the mutagen was attuned to you. This means you can now just buy bombs and throw them, or buy mutagens and drink them. This gets around a bunch of the earlier problems. Kind of. But at level 20 and at the cost of not grabbing a different level 20 feat.
But my understanding was correct? I think one person confirmed that.
I haven't progressed to the finer details and issues yet, but it seems there are a lot. Looks like a good class at low levels but quickly gets crippled by resonance?
Also remember once those 6 items, which are basically cantrips in what they accomplish, are up and you spend those last 2 Resonance. You are out. You are down to swinging a weapon around ineffectually.
The Alchemist is just about the only class that has no decent at will fall back option. Martial characters are good enough with their weapons to compare with Cantrips, especially at later levels if they get actual magic weapons.
The bombs aren't really better than cantrips, but are far more limited in how often they can be used.
So you better be very careful about when you actually use your bombs and other items.
There is also this weird bit where Advanced Alchemy states that you get the formula book with 4 common formulas as described in the feat... and then the next entry for Formula Book states that you start with a formula book that contains 4 common formulas.
So you start with 2 books that have 4 formulas each?
Seems like a typo.
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I've got a few other questions about these abilities.
Advanced Alchemy - the wording of “You can create these items in two different ways, as described below. An alchemical item you create this way has the infused trait.” suggests that you can only craft that way, and you can’t craft in the normal way, using reagents and the Craft skill, days of crafting, which is pretty odd for an alchemist.
Quick Alchemy - does the requirement of a free hand mean you use that free hand to use your alchemist’s tools? Or do those need to be in your other hand? Since this takes only one action, do you need to spend actions getting your tools out and presumably putting them away when you’re done if you want to use that hand for something else like a weapon.