| Ze'Rehan |
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
The feat is written as:
Extra Evolution
Your eidolon has more evolutions.
Prerequisite: Eidolon class feature.
Benefit: Your eidolon's evolution pool increases by 1.
Special: This evolution can be taken once at 1st level, and again at 5th, 10th, 15th and 20th.
Problem is, there is no 10th or 20th level feats (ignoring that they had a typo and called it an evolution instead of a feat under Special). Has there ever been an official ruling by Paizo on this? It isn't covered by the errata.
I have had DMs rule before that you can take it at the following levels (since it specifies when you can take it vs qualify for it): 1, 5, 9, 13, and 17th. (Basically, every 4 levels which nets the same number but is achievable.)
Lorewalker
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The feat is written as:
Extra Evolution
Your eidolon has more evolutions.Prerequisite: Eidolon class feature.
Benefit: Your eidolon's evolution pool increases by 1.
Special: This evolution can be taken once at 1st level, and again at 5th, 10th, 15th and 20th.Problem is, there is no 10th or 20th level feats (ignoring that they had a typo and called it an evolution instead of a feat under Special). Has there ever been an official ruling by Paizo on this? It isn't covered by the errata.
I have had DMs rule before that you can take it at the following levels (since it specifies when you can take it vs qualify for it): 1, 5, 9, 13, and 17th. (Basically, every 4 levels which nets the same number but is achievable.)
Someone who is 11th level is also 10th level. It is inclusive.
"Prestige Class Requirements: If a prestige class requires 5 ranks in a skill and I have 6 ranks in that skill, do I still meet the requirements?
Yes, because skill ranks are inclusive: if you have 6 ranks in a skill, then you have 5 ranks in that skill, and therefore meet the "have 5 ranks in [this] skill" requirement.In the same way, if you have a BAB of +6, then you have a BAB of +5, and therefore meet the "have BAB +5" requirement.
In the same way, if you have Str 15, then you have Str 13, and therefore meet the "Str 13" feat prerequisite for Power Attack.
Feat prerequisites are not inclusive, as it is possible for a creature to have a feat without meeting that feat's prerequisites. For example, a ranger can select Precise Shot as a ranger bonus feat without having the Point Blank Shot feat; he does not meet the prerequisites for Far Shot (which has Point Blank Shot as a prerequisite) because he doesn't actually have the Point Blank Shot feat, even though he has a feat that lists Point Blank Shot as a prerequisite."
| Adjoint |
Primal Transformation (Su): At first level, a primal companion hunter can awaken a primal creature from within his animal companion as a swift action. The animal companion gains a pool of evolution points (Advanced Player’s Guide 60) that can be used to temporarily give the companion evolutions as if it were an eidolon. A primal companion hunter uses her hunter level to determine the number of evolution points gained, limitations on how often an evolution can be selected, and so on. (...)
Primal Companion Hunter's companion acts as an eidolon for the purposes of being able to have avolutions, so I'd say it does qualify as a prerequisite for the feat.
| Tyrant Lizard King |
He still would not have the Eidolon class feature.
He could use Evolved Companion though :)
Prerequisite(s): Cha 13, animal companion class feature.
Benefit: Select a 1-point evolution other than pounce or reach from those available to a summoner's eidolon. Your animal companion gains this evolution. The animal companion must conform to any limitations of the evolution. For instance, only an animal companion of an appropriate size and base form can have the mount evolution.
If you gain a new animal companion, your old animal companion loses this evolution, and you can select a new 1-point evolution for the new animal companion.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time you do, select an additional 1-point evolution for your animal companion.
| Ze'Rehan |
Ze'Rehan wrote:The feat is written as:
Extra Evolution
Your eidolon has more evolutions.Prerequisite: Eidolon class feature.
Benefit: Your eidolon's evolution pool increases by 1.
Special: This evolution can be taken once at 1st level, and again at 5th, 10th, 15th and 20th.Problem is, there is no 10th or 20th level feats (ignoring that they had a typo and called it an evolution instead of a feat under Special). Has there ever been an official ruling by Paizo on this? It isn't covered by the errata.
I have had DMs rule before that you can take it at the following levels (since it specifies when you can take it vs qualify for it): 1, 5, 9, 13, and 17th. (Basically, every 4 levels which nets the same number but is achievable.)
Someone who is 11th level is also 10th level. It is inclusive.
FAQ wrote:"Prestige Class Requirements: If a prestige class requires 5 ranks in a skill and I have 6 ranks in that skill, do I still meet the requirements?
Yes, because skill ranks are inclusive: if you have 6 ranks in a skill, then you have 5 ranks in that skill, and therefore meet the "have 5 ranks in [this] skill" requirement.In the same way, if you have a BAB of +6, then you have a BAB of +5, and therefore meet the "have BAB +5" requirement.
In the same way, if you have Str 15, then you have Str 13, and therefore meet the "Str 13" feat prerequisite for Power Attack.
Feat prerequisites are not inclusive, as it is possible for a creature to have a feat without meeting that feat's prerequisites. For example, a ranger can select Precise Shot as a ranger bonus feat without having the Point Blank Shot feat; he does not meet the prerequisites for Far Shot (which has Point Blank Shot as a prerequisite) because he doesn't actually have the Point Blank Shot feat, even though he has a feat that lists Point Blank Shot as a prerequisite."
This is good. Unfortunately, if the DM doesn't intend to do epic levels, then the last one is forever out of reach. Will need to shoot that to the DM and see what his final judgment is.
| Gauss |
evolved companion is pretty useless tho as it limits to single evolution point evolutions
Tell that to my Halfling Cavalier's Spider Pig!
| Tyrant Lizard King |
evolved companion is pretty useless tho as it limits to single evolution point evolutions
*Pounce is a 1-point evolution... I would hardly call that useless.
*Bleed adds 1d6 Bleed to a specific natural attack.*Skilled is a +8 to any skill.
*Sticky: +4 to Grapple checks.
*Improved Damage: damage size increase.
*Magic Attacks: better than Eldritch Claws because it adds Alignment for bypassing DR at level 10.
*Resistance: Resist 5 (Cold, Fire, Electricity or Acid).
All 1-point evolutions... my Tyrannosaurus companion has 3 of those and he is scarier than the Barbarian.
| Lady-J |
Lady-J wrote:evolved companion is pretty useless tho as it limits to single evolution point evolutions*Pounce is a 1-point evolution... I would hardly call that useless.
*Bleed adds 1d6 Bleed to a specific natural attack.
*Skilled is a +8 to any skill.
*Sticky: +4 to Grapple checks.
*Improved Damage: damage size increase.
*Magic Attacks: better than Eldritch Claws because it adds Alignment for bypassing DR at level 10.
*Resistance: Resist 5 (Cold, Fire, Electricity or Acid).All 1-point evolutions... my Tyrannosaurus companion has 3 of those and he is scarier than the Barbarian.
pounce is limited to quadrapedal things and resist 5 is pretty garbage when if you had an actual edolon you could spend 1 more point and get immunity plus no access to fast healing or large evolutions
| Gauss |
Lady-J wrote:evolved companion is pretty useless tho as it limits to single evolution point evolutions*Pounce is a 1-point evolution... I would hardly call that useless.
Pounce is unavailable (as is Reach).
When you take this feat, select a 1-point evolution other than pounce or reach from those available to a summoner’s eidolon.
Additionally, 'Magic Attacks' is pretty much useless because most, if not all, Animal Companions have a neutral alignment and thus the alignment component of Magic Attacks never comes into play.
That said, Lady-J is incorrect that it is useless.
Bite, Claws* (assuming GM allows 'having limbs' to count as 'limbs evolution'), CLIMB!!, Gills/Swim (for campaigns regularly dealing with water), Improved Damage, Improved Natural Armor, Sticky (for ACs with Grab), and Tail+Sting (expensive for two feats) can all be useful.
My personal favorite is Climb, there is no shortage of usefulness for a climbing Mount. :)
| Tyrant Lizard King |
pounce is limited to quadrapedal things and resist 5 is pretty garbage when if you had an actual edolon you could spend 1 more point and get immunity plus no access to fast healing or large evolutions
And? A Diplodocus with *Pounce is brutal Once it gets Tail Lash and Multiattack (3 Tail attacks). A majority of animal companions are quadruped by the way.
Resist 5 is still Resist 5. Yeah immunity is ideal but that doesn't make Resist 5 useless. It's a situational option and a good one for my character but may be awesome to someone else's.The point is that it's hardly a useless feat... heck, the fact that it does more than Eldritch Claws later on already makes it better. Not to mention several of the other 1-point evolutions I didn't list that could benefit someone's animal companion like *Gills, *Climb, *Unnatural Aura, *Claws, *Bite, *Reach
If it wouldn't cripple my Druid's feat progression I would take Evolve Companion 2 more times. Obviously an Eidolon(or anything that would be treated as an Eidolon) would get much better options from evolutions... but when talking about Animal Companions the feat is FAR from useless.
EDIT: Ninja'd (Been typing off and on at work). The removal of Reach and Pounce is a bummer... didn't catch that change until just now, even though I posted the updated one earlier lol. Still a very useful feat though.
| Ze'Rehan |
You can retrain an earlier feat after getting the 20th, no epic levels.or house rules needed.
Actually, can't do that. You can't swap out a feat for another that you wouldn't have qualified for at that level. So, at 20th level, you sure you qualify. But the feat you swap out for (such as one you picked at 19th level) has to be available at that level you were when you took the first feat. So, in that case, you would have had to qualify for it at 19th level.
| Java Man |
Java Man wrote:You can retrain an earlier feat after getting the 20th, no epic levels.or house rules needed.Actually, can't do that. You can't swap out a feat for another that you wouldn't have qualified for at that level. So, at 20th level, you sure you qualify. But the feat you swap out for (such as one you picked at 19th level) has to be available at that level you were when you took the first feat. So, in that case, you would have had to qualify for it at 19th level.
Wrong, go read the retraining rules again. If you are going to dredge up an old thread to offer a correction you need to be correct.
James Risner
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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(such as one you picked at 19th level) has to be available at that level you were when you took the first feat.
No.
The GP and training days is the "cost" associated with getting a feat that you couldn't have taken then. If you must have a reference, listen to the Jason Bulmahn Know Direction interview around the time the book came out. He explains it's like buying a magic item.